Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

He probably did, but facility access is more than just pressers; not being in the facility does limit the people he will meet/develop relationships with/talk to.

 

 

Not really. Journalists just use other sources and peoples agents to get interviews.  Sure, he don't have the access of Sal C., but he can easily get interviews with players and staff.  

 

I'm tempted to pm you the entire story but I'm guessing you will just biasly rip it apart because you don't seem willing to have an open mind about the whole thing and don't seem to like the guy.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Scott7975

[Wayne Arnold]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me be sure I understand you.

 

You're saying that Ty Dunne researched, wrote, and published this article for the purpose of getting McDermott fired, or of persuading Pegula to fire him?

In other words, it's a hit piece with an agenda by Dunne, and I'm giving him way too much credit that he's a more or less honest journalist following his business model and trying to write deep-researched pieces that will draw in subscribers, and since he makes his home in WNY (as I understand it) the Bills players and coaches may be easier for him to connect with?

 

The purpose of a journalist is to highlight important perspectives. There are many with the perspective that Sean McDermott is bad at his job. Dunne wrote this highlighting that perspective.

 

You can call it whatever you want - "hit piece" "agenda" "poor journalism" etc. but it doesn't change the fact that many people believe McDermott stinks and there's plenty of evidence to support that viewpoint.

 

The public received the viewpoint recently that McDermott's job is very safe regardless of the poor job he's doing on the field. Dunne's work is the response to that.

[Beck Water]

8 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

Didn't Ken Dorsey fail this season?  I think that quote is ridiculous.   Also he starts with a quote, inserts his opinion, and ends with a quote like the entire narrative was from a reliable source.   His writing style is deceptive IMO.  I was hoping for a more fact based article where I could form my own opinion

 

Prior to the season, a number of people here expressed concern about Dorsey returning as OC.  Serious professional journalists - Joe Buscaglia for one - tagged "returning Dorsey as OC" as the Bills riskiest off-season decision.  So this isn't some "we all thought Dorsey was brilliant and now he's McDermott's 'Escape Goat' " revisionist thinking.

 

I defended Dorsey's performance last season on statistical grounds and on the grounds that he lacked some critical pieces.  This season, he got an upgraded OL and a first-round draft pick to work with as well as some solid journeyman acquisitions at WR and a "gadget" guy who was alleged to be an upgrade on McKenzie.

 

The result IMO was objectively under-whelming and under-performing.  Yes, the Bills D gave up some game winning drives, but if the offense is functioning at the level expected for a "gift from the Football Gods" QB, there shouldn't be so many games where a drive in the final minutes can turn the game - and the defense is also objectively depleted by key injuries at every level and has frankly done better than I expected.

 

My opinion

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[Scott7975]

18 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Which NFL head coach(es) would you describe as humble and not arrogant?

 

Frazier for sure.

[DrDawkinstein]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I understand they didn't have a Josh Allen. I also guarantee ALL of them wouldn't have done the things McDermott has done with this team. McDermott, while not making the best in game decisions at times, is much smarter than any of those guys prior. If you think Dick Jauron has the same success with Allen that McDermott has, you're delusional

 

If you put Allen on the 2014 Marrone Bills that went 9-7 with Kyle Orton at QB, I'd bet good money that team wins the Division and makes a good run in the playoffs.

 

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

Frazier for sure.

 

And how did that work out for being a head coach?

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Prior to the season, a number of people here expressed concern about Dorsey returning as OC.  Serious professional journalists - Joe Buscaglia for one - tagged "returning Dorsey as OC" as the Bills riskiest off-season decision.

 

I defended Dorsey's performance last season on statistical grounds and on the grounds that he lacked some critical pieces.  This season, he got an upgraded OL and a first-round draft pick to work with as well as some solid journeyman acquisitions at WR and a "gadget" guy who was alleged to be an upgrade on McKenzie.

 

The result IMO was objectively under-whelming.  Yes, the Bills D gave up some game winning drives, but if the offense is functioning at the level expected for a "gift from the Football Gods" QB, there shouldn't be so many games where a drive in the final minutes can turn the game - and the defense is also objectively depleted by key injuries at every level.

And when the Defensive minded HC has his hands up Dorsey's ass, that doesn't help either.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

 

He was a Bills reporter for only 2 total years. That is 1 year between 2010 and 2011. And 1 year between 2015 and 2016.

 

McDermott was still in Carolina when Dunne reported here

 

The entirety of McDermotts tenure in Buffalo, Dunne has been a national NFL writer … but he hates McDermott for some contentious time he had with the organization BEFORE McDermott arrived?

 

Nonsensical.

Then why is he spending so much time on McDermott tracking down and interviewing the Jon feliciano’s and levi wallace’s that nobody cares about?  This guy spent countless hours collecting negative stories from anonymous sources who are no longer here.  Get Josh Allen or Diggs or Milano’s opinion.  Not a collection of end of roster players who are no longer here.  Then spout some 25 source number, 20 of which could’ve said positive stuff.  All the negative stuff could be coming from the same 4-5 guys.  When he does the same exercise for every current NFL coach tracking down coaches and players not brought back, there’d be far worse stories than poorly worded 9/11 motivational speeches.  

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

The purpose of a journalist is to highlight important perspectives. There are many with the perspective that Sean McDermott is bad at his job. Dunne wrote this highlighting that perspective.

 

You can call it whatever you want - "hit piece" "agenda" "poor journalism" etc. but it doesn't change the fact that many people believe McDermott stinks and there's plenty of evidence to support that viewpoint.

 

The public received the viewpoint recently that McDermott's job is very safe regardless of the poor job he's doing on the field. Dunne's work is the response to that.

 

The public also received the viewpoint recently (from an NFL insider) that McDermott's job will be evaluated after the season.  There is a thread about that on the board.

 

Like I said, I don't want to put words in your mouth.  When you say "articles like these are required when a head coach is not getting the job done and an article comes out with sources close to Pegula saying there's no chance he gets fired after the season", are you saying Dunne specifically researched and wrote this article as a response to the Athletic article saying McDermott's job is safe?

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Then why is he spending so much time on McDermott tracking down and interviewing the Jon feliciano’s and levi wallace’s that nobody cares about?  This guy spent countless hours collecting negative stories from anonymous sources who are no longer here.  Get Josh Allen or Diggs or Milano’s opinion.  Not a collection of end of roster players who are no longer here.  Then spout some 25 source number, 20 of which could’ve said positive stuff.  All the negative stuff could be coming from the same 4-5 guys.  When he does the same exercise for every current NFL coach tracking down coaches and players not brought back, there’d be far worse stories than poorly worded 9/11 motivational speeches.  

 

There's a ton of positive stuff in the article if you actually read it. Some of it even in the free parts. I quoted this yesterday as an example:

 

"His intent — players repeat — is pure.

 

The coach who ended the Bills’ 17-year playoff drought realizes how badly locals are dying for their first Super Bowl. The quest consumes him.

 

“He never, ever, ever does a damn thing with any other intention than to empower and grow the Buffalo Bills franchise,” this ex-Bill said. “That’s a fact. Now, whether or not the *****’s going to work or whether or not the players are going to receive it well? That’s a different conversation. But it doesn’t come from an evil ‘Sean McDermott wants all the praise and all the credit.’ He genuinely wants every person in that organization to thrive and win a lot of games to the point of exhaustion.

 

“All he wants to do is help that team win. Now, that’s the truth.”

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

53 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

I'll say it again - articles like these are required when a head coach is not getting the job done and an article comes out with sources close to Pegula saying there's no chance he gets fired after the season.

 

If falling short on the field ("game management, decision making, whether some of the core principles of his defense are really sustainable under the modern salary cap") isn't going to result in changes then we have to go a different route.

 

Maybe Pegula is now getting the message. We're not going to allow Josh Allen to play his career here in Buffalo without lifting the Lombardi Trophy.

 

Agree 100%.  When Graham's article came out saying Sean is basically safe, I accepted it and even expected/agreed with it based on what Sean has done since his arrival.  But if the points exposed in this article about McD don't bother you as a Bills fan, your head is buried in the sand like an ostrich. 

 

Dunne's expose has served to hit me over the head... We are likely only going so far under Sean, & all signs to this point say we may have already gone as far as we can with him.  We basically need to win out to sneak into the playoffs.  

 

And via Hard Knocks, although he is extremely aloof, you can easily see what McDaniel has going on down in Miami... there's little doubt he trusts the talents of his players to enable them to go out & make plays.  Kind of like what Daboll had fostered with Josh while his tutor/OC.  

 

We should all agree, we need to do whatever is necessary to allow Josh to flourish while we have him here in his prime.  Joe Brady has been like a glob of Flex Seal so far, so we shall see what they do from here and/or how they respond to what has been at best a very unsettling bye week!

 

Trust the process reporting & your own two eyes!

Edited December 8, 2023 by HankBulloughMellencamp

[Buffalo03]

37 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Dick Jauron went to Yale. To think McDermott is smarter than him is hilarious.

 

Jauron also once went 13-3 with some guy named Jim Miller as his quarterback.

 

Chan Gailey would have set NFL offensive records that wouldn't be touched for 30 years with a player like Josh Allen as his QB.

 

You can guarantee anything you want - doesn't make it true. But the evidence is overwhelming: McDermott is a meathead who gets too nervous at the end of games to lead an NFL team. I'm sorry if that makes you emotional.

Dick Jauron had a fluke season under Jim Miller where he went 13-3 where I believe he won 2 games on last second Hail Mary's and another with a pic 6 that was ran back in OT. He had 3 extra fluke wins that season. I think McDermott is smarter from a football perspective. Jauron was a horrible coach. I think the one season McDermott had with Taylor was more impressive than what Jauron had with Jim Miller. If Jauron had Allen, it would be like a Staley/Herbert situation. Where You have the talented franchise guy and can't win sh*t. I would take McDermott without Allen over any of those other guys we had before him

Edited December 8, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Then why is he spending so much time on McDermott tracking down and interviewing the Jon feliciano’s and levi wallace’s that nobody cares about?  This guy spent countless hours collecting negative stories from anonymous sources who are no longer here. 

 

This is like asking, “why did Bob Woodward spend so much time investigating Nixon”.

 

Journalists follow stories. If there is a story brewing of people not liking a head coach, he follows it. 

 

You ask why he didn’t get Allen or Milano’s opinion. He wrote in the interview that he tried, but the Bills won’t let him “in”.

 

You’re someone who won’t believe the story unless McD yells in your face “it’s true!”. And that’s fine. But its nonsensical IMO.

 

 

And there is some positive stuff in the article. People just aren’t paying attention to it.

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

There's a ton of positive stuff in the article if you actually read it. Some of it even in the free parts. I quoted this yesterday as an example:

 

"His intent — players repeat — is pure.

 

The coach who ended the Bills’ 17-year playoff drought realizes how badly locals are dying for their first Super Bowl. The quest consumes him.

 

“He never, ever, ever does a damn thing with any other intention than to empower and grow the Buffalo Bills franchise,” this ex-Bill said. “That’s a fact. Now, whether or not the *****’s going to work or whether or not the players are going to receive it well? That’s a different conversation. But it doesn’t come from an evil ‘Sean McDermott wants all the praise and all the credit.’ He genuinely wants every person in that organization to thrive and win a lot of games to the point of exhaustion.

 

“All he wants to do is help that team win. Now, that’s the truth.”

Yes.  And the only thing that makes headlines is the 9/11 story and 25 sources.  

[Wayne Arnold]

16 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

What I don't like about the article personally is it could have waited at least until the season was over.  This team is fighting for a playoff spot and still has ambitions of winning.  It doesn't need further distractions.  Of course, media people never care about how what they write affects peoples lives.  All they care about is their story.  That goes for most journalists, not just Dunne.

 

It was the perfect time to release it. If McDermott is the man for this job - one to lead this franchise to its first Super Bowl win - then an article with a few negative quotes is not going to distract him or the team and they'll be fine.

 

If he's as bad as many think, Dunne's article will help lead this team down into the dumps and the fan pressure will (hopefully) require Pegula to make a change in January.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The public also received the viewpoint recently (from an NFL insider) that McDermott's job will be evaluated after the season.  There is a thread about that on the board.

 

Like I said, I don't want to put words in your mouth.  When you say "articles like these are required when a head coach is not getting the job done and an article comes out with sources close to Pegula saying there's no chance he gets fired after the season", are you saying Dunne specifically researched and wrote this article as a response to the Athletic article saying McDermott's job is safe?

 

 

i have to ask how you have such strongly held opinions on something you admitted you haven't bothered to read

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

The public also received the viewpoint recently (from an NFL insider) that McDermott's job will be evaluated after the season.  There is a thread about that on the board.

 

Like I said, I don't want to put words in your mouth.  When you say "articles like these are required when a head coach is not getting the job done and an article comes out with sources close to Pegula saying there's no chance he gets fired after the season", are you saying Dunne specifically researched and wrote this article as a response to the Athletic article saying McDermott's job is safe?

 

 

I'm sure Dunne had been working on this longer than the time the "McDermott's job is safe" statements came out but the timing of release makes sense to me.

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If you put Allen on the 2014 Marrone Bills that went 9-7 with Kyle Orton at QB, I'd bet good money that team wins the Division and makes a good run in the playoffs.

 

 

And how did that work out for being a head coach?

 

I mean the dude took over a 3 win team and got them to the playoffs with Christian Ponder and Joe Webb at QB.  He might not have done well but he wasn't exactly set up for success at QB either.

[Wayne Arnold]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

If Jauron had Allen, it would be like a Staley/Herbert situation. Where You have the talented franchise guy and can't win sh*t.

 

Or like a McDermott/Allen situation.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

This is like asking, “why did Bob Woodward spend so much time investigating Nixon”.

 

Journalists follow stories. If there is a story brewing of people not liking a head coach, he follows it. 

 

You ask why he didn’t get Allen or Milano’s opinion. He wrote in the interview that he tried, but the Bills won’t let him “in”.

 

You’re someone who won’t believe the story unless McD yells in your face “it’s true!”. And that’s fine. But its nonsensical IMO.

 

 

And there is some positive stuff in the article. People just aren’t paying attention to it.

Any comparison to Watergate reporters is nonsensical.  Talk to people who matter.  Not Quentin Spain and Chad Hall.  Interview guys who left and came back line Shaq Lawson.  That’s real reporting.  

[Scott7975]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

The result IMO was objectively under-whelming and under-performing.  Yes, the Bills D gave up some game winning drives, but if the offense is functioning at the level expected for a "gift from the Football Gods" QB, there shouldn't be so many games where a drive in the final minutes can turn the game - and the defense is also objectively depleted by key injuries at every level and has frankly done better than I expected.

 

My opinion

 

I share that opinion

15 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Then why is he spending so much time on McDermott tracking down and interviewing the Jon feliciano’s and levi wallace’s that nobody cares about?  This guy spent countless hours collecting negative stories from anonymous sources who are no longer here.  Get Josh Allen or Diggs or Milano’s opinion.  Not a collection of end of roster players who are no longer here.  Then spout some 25 source number, 20 of which could’ve said positive stuff.  All the negative stuff could be coming from the same 4-5 guys.  When he does the same exercise for every current NFL coach tracking down coaches and players not brought back, there’d be far worse stories than poorly worded 9/11 motivational speeches.  

 

Not everyone in the article said negative stuff.  Look, I know almost no one in this thread has read the entire article but I have said all over this thread that the entire thing isn't negative nor is everyone he talked to.  Also IMO, the 9/11 part wasn't even the worst part of the article and it was a small section of a large article.  It's just what everyone is focused on.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Scott7975