Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Bill from NYC]

18 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

If this is true and Morse drew a Jordan logo on his boots, that’s an issue.  Making fun of the HC shows you don’t respect him.  If players aren’t respecting the HC, it’s time to fire him for sure.

 

I’d really hate for our failure to get to the Super Bowl being McD.  If he’s and issue I would hope Beane would have addressed it.  Unless he has no say in the coach, as has been stated on these boards before.

 

 

If things keep going down the tubes, McDermott will probably blame Beane next and fire him.

 

Count me as one who strongly believes that McDermott is running the entire show. I think that many fans just don't want to believe this but strong evidence does exist. Mr. Pegula needs to fire McDermott immediately.

[Steptide]

McDermott is getting the Marrone treatment, which is odd, cuz Imo Marrone was such an a-hole his 2nd season here 

[JohnNord]

52 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

If you really care (but I doubt you do), you can read my prior posts on the subject.

 

I don’t care about your posts

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Nope those are not the facts, those are cherry picked lump totals that completely do NOT tell the TRUE story of the first 4 weeks.  

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that a certain number of points on record was a fact.  

 

My bad.  

 

Things are clearing up as to our differences of opinion.   

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Like how bad the offense was week 1.  What about how bad the offense was for more than half the game against Washington until the D created a bunch of opportunites for us late in the game that inflated the score and masked the larger chunk of the game where the offense was again struggling.  

 

And again, it is Josh Allen, no level of OC can keep Josh and this offense from not scoring forever.  It is about consistency.  And you are literally trying to use about a game and a half of football during the first 4 weeks of when the offense was humming to excuse the 6 weeks that proceeded it as if McD came in and tinkered and fundamentally changed something.  

 

Its actually quite absurd the story you are trying to tell. 

 

 

NOTHING with the Bills changed.  It was the same Dorsey issues last year and this year.  And what actually changed was that opposing teams, even bad ones, had the blue print to counter Dorsey's unimaginative offense and Dorsey was not a good enough coach to be able to counter back.  

 

So why you keep going with this "what changed" narrative is puzzling to me...its not only obvious, but there is a ton of film out there by professionals literally showing this.  

 

So having said all of that, Dorsey's entirely at fault, McD bears only a modicum token of responsibility, and McD's responsible for how good Allen is?  

Is that how we all should read that?  

Again, I've never defended Dorsey, I have no idea why you're on my pant-leg about that.  Let go already.  

 

LOL 

 

 

[Rico]

“Heh, heh!”

[Jauronimo]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

No, it isn't complicated.  But I'm not defending Dorsey.  I never wanted Dorsey as an OC.  I was always wait and see.  So I have no idea what you're even referring to here.  I'm anything but a Dorsey apologist.  

 

What you're doing is conflating the notion that I don't excuse McD from any of the current state of the team, with me being a Dorsey apologist.  Sadly for you there's zero evidence of that.  Sorry, there just isn't.  

 

 

 

Again, here are the facts.  

 

+84 of our current Point-Differential was due to an explosive offense in three of our first four games, after the Jets game that we went into entirely unprepared.  That's for another thread though.   

 

Since then we're +17, -9 without the big game over the hapless Jets.  

 

Those are facts.  

 

Another fact is that McD's phrase, "complimentary football" did not make an appearance, at least not that I'm aware of, until after that point in time.  

 

Obviously something changed in our offense after we got back from England, or maybe even for that Jags game, either way, doesn't matter.   That's also indisputable.  

 

So what was it?  

 

What, Dorsey just said "f-it, we're scoring too much, I need to slow this ship down." ?  

 

I'm not nor have ever defended Dorsey, in fact I don't defend any coach that's currently on this staff.  Not one, not even Brady until he strings a half-season together consistently, which we'll find out here in December.  

 

But something changed, so what was it?  

 

 

Its complementary football and McD has been talking about it for years.

 

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/mcdermott-knew-offense-needed-to-be-efficient-in-los-angeles

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/recap/_/gameId/401438010

 

https://www.patriots.com/news/buffalo-bills-postgame-quotes-12-1

 

 

[JohnNord]

Based on the reaction, I don’t think this article was a slam dunk Dunne.  A lot of people seem to bringing up his integrity/sourcing which has also been questioned in the past.  

If this came from a different national reporter, I think the reaction would be different 

 

[Jauronimo]

2 minutes ago, Steptide said:

McDermott is getting the Marrone treatment, which is odd, cuz Imo Marrone was such an a-hole his 2nd season here 

And Marrone's claim to fame is one non-losing season where we failed to make the playoffs.

[mrags]

[par73]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

It's a hit piece, but crazy if even only half is true

 

Says McDermott doesn't put in the hours, leaves early but demands other coaches stay late/postpone flights and vacations

 

That he took over defensive playcalling in the AFCCG and possibly last drive of 13seconds game

 

Claims Diggs hates him

 

and basically makes the case that he's inevitably going to fail in the biggest moments

Only surprise would be the leaving early part. Really doesn't matter to me-- I believe change is needed if the Super Bowl is the ultimate goal here.

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

NOTHING with the Bills changed.  It was the same Dorsey issues last year and this year.  And what actually changed was that opposing teams, even bad ones, had the blue print to counter Dorsey's unimaginative offense and Dorsey was not a good enough coach to be able to counter back.  

 

So how do you explain the massive difference in scoring production from our first four weeks and since then?  

 

It can't be the competition, the caliber of defenses in Dorsey's next 6 games before being fired was poor, not a team currently ranked in the top-10, four of six ranked 20th or worse.  The "blueprint" as you put it was out from last season, not new for this one.  

 

What's your explanation?  

 

 

[RkFast]

Lets be honest....a three part series about how the head coach is a socially awkward maniac can be written for every single NFL team. 

 

We know Belichick is one. Payton definitely is one. And have you seen Mike McDaniel's pants? Its basically a pre-requisite for the job. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by RkFast

[NoSaint]

6 minutes ago, Pasaluki said:

Diana Russini did a takedown of the Jets and Panthers. The big difference between her reporting and this article was her sources are CURRENT players and coaches/assistants who were with their teams this year and many of whom are still active. 

 

This guys sources are all burnouts and ex players. 🙄 

you do realize that we haven’t just forced guys out - in fact most have left on fine enough and completely normal terms unless something else has happened behind the scenes 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Does this really paint any different of a picture for McDermott than the Warren Sharp article a couple weeks back? 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, eball said:

This makes no sense at all, given what happened before and since Dorsey’s firing. 
 

It does if you look at McD was using Dorsey to implement the offense that he thought best complimented his defense.  It also makes sense if you look at it as McD wanting Allen to play differently as he thought that would compliment his defense best. 

 

What I'm saying is that when it came to the offense this season McD created the strategic vision and was relying on Dorsey to tactically execute that vision.  And when it came to how Allen's game needed to evolve McD provided the strategic vision and left Dorsey to handle the tactical details. In McD's mind Dorsey failed and was the one at fault so he was fired.  But IMO the real issue is that McD's strategic vision for the Bills offense and Allen was the failure.

 

So who is responsible for the changes since Brady took over? I don't know.  I suspect that Pegula stepped in and told McD to let Allen be Allen and Brady was to help him do this.  We know that McD meets with Pegula after every game and it hardly could have escaped the notice of the Bills owner that Allen was playing the game differently then he had in previous seasons.

 

Alternatively the McD supporters can say that McD made the decision to let Allen be Allen and that Brady was better then Dorsey.  Fine but then the question becomes what took so long.

 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Let’s ask Wyatt Teller, Zack Moss, and Zay Jones to comment on Daboll anonymously and see what that article looks like.  Heavy is the head that wears the crown.  I don’t think McDermott has what it takes to win a Super Bowl but that article is a hit piece.  2 things can be true at once.  

 

Totally agree. I'd also add Kaiir Elam to the list as well, because he will find a way to force him out. I can easily see him working out with a team that knows best how to use him in schemes. 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, RkFast said:

Lets be honest....a three part series about how the head coach is a socially awkward lunatic can be written for every single NFL team. 

 

We know Belichick is one. Payton definitely is one. And have you seen Mike McDaniel's pants?

 

The biggest "surprise" takeaway is multiple people stating that McD is a factor that needs to be overcome to win at the highest levels, not one that contributes.  

 

That sentiment has been expressed by a wide variety of people, thereby rendering it unlikely that players and coaches, former or otherwise, do not also see that.  

 

Even if Dunne's lying through his teeth about players/coaches saying that, it's still blatant.  

 

Arguing over who believes it or said it would appear to be irrelevant.  

 

 

[davefan66]

7 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

If things keep going down the tubes, McDermott will probably blame Beane next and fire him.

 

Count me as one who strongly believes that McDermott is running the entire show. I think that many fans just don't want to believe this but strong evidence does exist. Mr. Pegula needs to fire McDermott immediately.

I have tried to be a McD supporter for all he’s done.  Playoffs, changing the “culture”, many wins.  But clearly, he has not had what is needed to push us over the top.

 

I must say, if he truly is the guy portrayed in this article, send him packing right now.  Appreciate what he did to start our ascent, but we need someone who can truly lead this team.  Not waste one of the most physically gifted QB’s to ever play the game.

 

Quite possibly the players are exhausted with him.

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, boyst said:

i am more in the sense that he was making an analogy or something rhetorical about how the players dress and behave. i don't think he was serious.

 

moral of story. lunches are 1 hour sir.

 

90 minutes at a MINIMUM

[BuffaloBillyG]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

To start, remember, it was McD that brought Benjamin (along with many other crap JAGS) over from Carolina.  So let's not discount that.  

Two counter points here. One, it's extremely common and I mean EXTREMELY common for new coaching staffs to bring in players they are familiar with. Helps to install the new concepts, the culture and have a few trusted faces. I cannot fault that reasoning. Second, Benjamin has always been attributed to Beane making a move and less McDermott pushing for it. 

 

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

2015 we scored 397 points.  (23.7/game)  ... and ranked 12th in offense as such.  

 

2016:  399, 24.9, 10th 

 

2017:  302, 18.9, 22nd 

2018:  374, 23.4, 18th 

2019:  314, 19.6, 23rd 

 

In 2016 we had Anthony Lynn as the OC. He left when McDermott was hired, of course. Rick Dennison was brought in as OC and after 1 season McDermott identified that was a mistake and moved on. That brought us to Brian Daboll in 2018 & 2019. So you're now talking about 3 different offenses, 3 different OCs and players needed to fit 3 different systems in that span. That played a part as well. However, as you infer having a quality QB makes a world of difference.

 

23 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 t's an average of 330 before Allen skyrocketed in 2020.  Keep in mind that was with Taylor also in 2017, who posted his worst season here under McD too, and Allen in 2018 and 2019 apart from a few games where "Peterman gave us the best chances of winning," according to the one that you and others are going to bat for.  

I take umbrage to the bolded as I specifically said I am not defending McDermott and am ready to move on from him myself. 

 

25 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

You can connect the dots.  But one of the things that cannot be done is giving McD credit for Allen's rise.  That should be a given at this point.  

And this is why I take umbrage with that. There are enough tangible and obvious reasons why the team should move on from McDermott that we don't really need to connect dots or read between any lines. And no reason to rewrite history. The actual facts speak for themselves. 

 

There have been many times where Josh Allen himself has given some credit to McDermott for his development. Along with giving Dorsey, Daboll, Culley and Jordan Palmer credit as well.  And while McD likely hasn't had as direct of a hand and the others, he did have the foresight to bring those guys in (aside from Palmer, obviously). If we are going to slam him for bringing in bad players and coaches early in his tenure, only fair to give credit for bringing the right guys in on the offensive side later, no?

 

Right now the picture is painted that everything bad that has happened is 100% on McDermott and 100% of anything positive is on someone else. That's simply not true.