Greenberg - A Jets Fan - Pushing Back Against The Allen Hate

[PBF81]

6 hours ago, H2o said:

I found this interesting. And of course the rest of the ESPN 🤡's yuck it up a bit later in the segment, but this has been my stance on Josh for forever. All of the idiots with an ax to grind continually spew the same crap, on their same crap shows, pandering to their same crap audience. Josh is a top 2-5 QB in this league, 5 being the absolute basement. They constantly act like he is the one costing this team W's. They don't talk about the 3 games he's led his team to a lead in the final 2 minutes, only to have McDermott's defense piss it away. No, it's his 1 INT two quarters before that which caused them to lose. Idiots. This team would have, AT THE MOST, 3 wins this year without him. At the most. Allen is not blameless. He's not perfect. But let's not act like he's not out here setting records in history of the NFL for things like total TD's, completing 68% of his passes this year, and leading the league in total TD's. 

 

 

 

 

AMEN and AMEN!!! 

 

Here's my post in the Coaching/QB Desert thread just now:  

 

The underlying premise of your entire post is that McDoesn'tKnow is actually contributing to our winning.  

Is he?  

 

Seems to just about everyone except for his most stubborn and ardent supporters, that he's a weak link, not something that propels this team forward, other than with the typical nonpalpable soft indicators like character, culture based upon "The Process," which to date absolutely no one has defined, not even him, etc.  

 

The counter argument is that it really shouldn't take very much to consistently get top performance from this offense, not only in the regular season, but also in the playoffs.   

 

That's something that we haven't seen with McDoesn'tKnow in charge.   To a whole lot of people we're getting about as little as possible from this assemblage of talent on offense.  What, Allen's going to be a 12th-ranked QB?  LOL, not a chance.  

 

As it has been posed in the past, McD's arrival preceded Allen's.  

 

Had Allen been here first, what are the odds that someone making the decision on which coach to hire, would have put McD on the short list?  That seems incredibly unlikely as he's a bad fit for that.  Simply because he was here first does not make him a good fit, nor does it mitigate, diminish, much less eliminate his liabilities to this team.  

 

The two, Allen and McD, simply aren't made for each other.  

[T.E.]

2 hours ago, balln said:

Kelly is probably on par w Donovan mcnabb . Which is really

weird to say.

 

jim Kelly was my hero as a kid and was the best qb in my mind. 
 

but now w time and stats. He really wasn’t that all Time great.

Jim Kelly is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Let me know if Donovan McNabb is ever inducted.

[CincyBillsFan]

18 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

What's up nerd. 

 

It's weird how sensitive people are about Lamar Jackson and Cam Newton - yet you're the most sensitive when people bring them up in their discussions.  You're no different than the posters you complain about.   There's three things guaranteed in life - Death, Taxes, and @C.Biscuit97 never missing an opportunity to criticize Allen.  It's no secret you're not a fan.  

There is one big difference, C.Biscuit97 is sensitive about Lamar & Cam ON A BUFFALO BILLS message board.  At least we Allen defenders have the good taste & common sense to defend Allen on a Bills message board and not in a Ravens or Panthers board.

 

 

 

[balln]

21 minutes ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Jim Kelly is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Let me know if Donovan McNabb is ever inducted.

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=KellJi00&player_id2=McNaDo00
 

prettttty darn similar. And mcnabb is crushing the rushing stats. Way lower INT. I know I know. It’s crazy. But I’m just saying. Jim also had Thurman Andre and Bruce and lofton…….

Edited December 7, 2023 by balln

[T.E.]

1 minute ago, balln said:

https://stathead.com/football/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&player_id1=KellJi00&player_id2=McNaDo00
 

prettttty darn similar. And mcnabb is crushing the rushing stats. Way lower INT. I know I know. It’s crazy. But I’m just saying. Jim also had Thurman Andre and Bruce and lofton…….

McNabb played in era where hits on the QB and bump-and-run coverage by DBs were virtually outlawed. You cannot statistically compare QB eras from the past with guys that spent the bulk of their careers post-2000.

[balln]

I don’t remember 86-96 being that significantly different than 99-11. But I just find it interesting how close their career passing stats are

[T.E.]

14 minutes ago, balln said:

I don’t remember 86-96 being that significantly different than 99-11. But I just find it interesting how close their career passing stats are

They were wildly different because tons of rule changes were implemented to hamstring defenses and juice up passing. There's a reason why Andy Dalton has more than 5000 yards passing than guys like Phil Simms and Troy Aikman.

[HappyDays]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Kind of off topic, but can we acknowledge how insane it is that Mahomes spent his first four years with Tyreek Hill AND Travis Kelce in their prime, AND Andy Reid calling plays? I mean that is an all time supporting cast. Arguably the greatest speed WR of all time, arguably the greatest pass catching TE of all time, one of the greatest offensive play callers of all time. Even I didn't fully appreciate how absurdly good that situation was until seeing what Tyreek Hill has done in Miami. And that takes nothing away from Mahomes, his otherworldly talent that defenses simply weren't ready for was the engine of the whole thing.

 

The first year Mahomes had that supporting cast, Allen was throwing the ball to Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, and Charles Clay 🤣 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

If josh finishes fairly strong and the team does well it’s gonna be the most out of nowhere monster season in history lol. The only context he’s talked about really is turnovers

[Chicken Boo]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I dont think the point of that graphic is to say they are the best two QBS, as much as it shows Josh's numbers align very closely to (if not better than) Mahomes, yet Josh is constantly criticized and Mahomes is constantly worshipped.

 

Mahomes is a 2x league MVP, 2X Super Bowl champ and 2X Super Bowl MVP.

 

If Patrick retired tomorrow, he'd be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer and would widley be considered a top 5 QB all time. 

 

I think he's more than earned the praise.  

[BigDingus]

This put a smile on a face before bed, thanks 😊 

[JustAnotherBillsFan]

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Haha, this Board crapping on Lamar as much as they claim others crap on Allen. 

I have to admit I was in the camp that thought Lamar could not be successful as a pass first QB but this season he has convinced me otherwise. 

 

Love Josh of course but have nothing but respect for Lamar.

[PatsFanNH]

12 hours ago, Success said:

 

Tired?

 

Think about it the last 3 years they made the SB twice and the AFCC Game 3 times.. they play longer than every team in the NFL right now.. That takes a toll on your body. 

[Bferra13]

6 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Mahomes is a 2x league MVP, 2X Super Bowl champ and 2X Super Bowl MVP.

 

If Patrick retired tomorrow, he'd be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer and would widley be considered a top 5 QB all time. 

 

I think he's more than earned the praise.  

And Allen has earned all the criticism he gets? I think you're missing the point here. 

[Gregg]

38 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

And Allen has earned all the criticism he gets? I think you're missing the point here. 

 

Allen gets criticism for turnovers but overall, he is praised as one of the best QB's in the league. He is also one of the most popular players in the league fans love to watch. As for Allen not yet winning a Super Bowl well that is because the Bills haven't been good enough as a team to get there yet. 

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, Bferra13 said:

And Allen has earned all the criticism he gets? I think you're missing the point here. 

 

I'm not missing anything. 

 

Mahomes has already cemented his legacy.  There are no question marks left for him except how many more Lombardis or MVPs can he win? 

 

Josh still has some very big boxes to check.  Until then, he's going to be scrutinized more than the guy who's already at the finish line with the flag waving.    

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

But Allen doesn’t get credit cuz his team has failed him and not made a SB.  It’s crazy, never seen a player get so much hate for not having the same SB resume as the guy widely considered to be the best ever 

 

 

Does he really not get the credit? Or is that just the paranoia of Bills fans?

 

Are there a lot of lists out there of the top five QBs that don't have Allen in there?

 

I googled "Top 10 QB list 2023". I later wanted some more recent ones so I re-adjusted for recency. Out of the first ten I opened how many would you guess had Allen outside of the top five?

 

That would be zero.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-qb-power-rankings-lamar-jackson-aaron-rodgers-both-crack-top-10-in-first-rundown-of-all-32-starters/

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2023-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-ranking-the-best-qbs-after-patrick-mahomes

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-quarterbacks-entering-the-2023-nfl-season

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/30/top-10-quarterbacks-qbs-ranked-right-now#gid=ci02c08dc2e000262e&pid=10

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/37919975/ranking-nfl-top-10-quarterbacks-2023-execs-coaches-scouts-make-their-picks-best-passers

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/37919975/ranking-nfl-top-10-quarterbacks-2023-execs-coaches-scouts-make-their-picks-best-passers

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-2023-qbs-best-worst/yxvqewdhatrxu7qwajhb89vp

https://www.insider.com/nfl-2023-season-starting-quarterbacks-ranked-complete-list-2023-9

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-week-12-qb-power-rankings-ravens-lamar-jackson-rises-to-no-1-broncos-russell-wilson-also-jumps/

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-10-2023-nfl-season

 

They're right to point out the INTs. It's part of who he is. Pretty much all of them also point out his running, which is also part of who he is. It really would be better if he threw less. At least two games and arguably three, Allen was a large part of why we lost, and I'm sure he'd agree 100% with that. He also won us some games, no question. But inconsistency is held against QBs, and for good reason.

 

Of course, there are always going to be a few folks who over-react. This is the internet, after all. It's part of the deal. But most recognize that he's a great QB. Only the wingnuts don't really.

 

He doesn't get a lot of hate, he just doesn't. But yeah, they do throw his weaknesses in with the rest of his traits.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Thurman#1

[C.Biscuit97]

10 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

What's up nerd. 

 

It's weird how sensitive people are about Lamar Jackson and Cam Newton - yet you're the most sensitive when people bring them up in their discussions.  You're no different than the posters you complain about.   There's three things guaranteed in life - Death, Taxes, and @C.Biscuit97 never missing an opportunity to criticize Allen.  It's no secret you're not a fan.  

Death, taxes, and whatever you name is showing up to stalk me when I mention Allen.

 

Not sure how many you are bills fans or Allen groupies. I’ve consistently said he is a top 3 qb (but you didn’t say he was number 1 you jerk!). Sorry, I think Mahomes is better (2 MVPs, 2SBs, crazy I know) is better and the only place on earth this is a discussion is here. I think if their resumes were reversed, we think chiefs fans were idiotic for trying to compare to the 2 st this point.

 

i also believe there are qbs that this board love to criticize, for whatever the reason, like Cam and Lamar. Cam reminded me a lot of Allen. Elite physical skills and could dominate games single handedly.  Cam did that on a pretty garbage Carolina offense. Allen is much more consistent and is making changes to his game to last longer. 
 

and Lamar has similarities to Allen but isn’t on par as a passer (though he has absolute crap to throw to besides Edwards before this season). And it may look funny but dude just wins (during the regular season, needs to prove it in the playoffs still). But any time he messes up, this board loves trashing him.

 

so again, Allen is a top 3 qb; the bills are not as bad around him as others make it out to be and has a worst offense around him than Mahomes this year (that and the 2 SBs is why Mahomes doesn’t get “criticized” as much); and Mahomes is maybe one of the best qbs I have ever seen. My opinion is something 99% of other fans agree with besides the homers here. Josh Allen probably agrees with me and thinks you are weird for getting so emotional. 😭 

13 hours ago, Drew21PA said:

Another note though

 

i think people are going to REALLY be mad when he doesn’t just finish his career in 7-8 years like everyone thinks and he plays longer than expected 

Are we just making up reasons to get mad now? Whoever said that?

6 hours ago, JustAnotherBillsFan said:

I have to admit I was in the camp that thought Lamar could not be successful as a pass first QB but this season he has convinced me otherwise. 

 

Love Josh of course but have nothing but respect for Lamar.

Not sure why that is so hard. And I would rather have Allen as a qb but Lamar wins his way. 
 

bunch of soccer moms here 

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Kind of off topic, but can we acknowledge how insane it is that Mahomes spent his first four years with Tyreek Hill AND Travis Kelce in their prime, AND Andy Reid calling plays? I mean that is an all time supporting cast. Arguably the greatest speed WR of all time, arguably the greatest pass catching TE of all time, one of the greatest offensive play callers of all time. Even I didn't fully appreciate how absurdly good that situation was until seeing what Tyreek Hill has done in Miami. And that takes nothing away from Mahomes, his otherworldly talent that defenses simply weren't ready for was the engine of the whole thing.

 

The first year Mahomes had that supporting cast, Allen was throwing the ball to Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, and Charles Clay 🤣 

And he won the SB the same year they traded Hill and had JuJu as his number 1 receiver that insane. 

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Does he really not get the credit? Or is that just the paranoia of Bills fans?

 

Are there a lot of lists out there of the top five QBs that don't have Allen in there?

 

I googled "Top 10 QB list 2023". I later wanted some more recent ones so I re-adjusted for recency. Out of the first ten I opened how many would you guess had Allen outside of the top five?

 

That would be zero.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-qb-power-rankings-lamar-jackson-aaron-rodgers-both-crack-top-10-in-first-rundown-of-all-32-starters/

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/2023-top-10-nfl-quarterbacks-ranking-the-best-qbs-after-patrick-mahomes

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-10-quarterbacks-entering-the-2023-nfl-season

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/30/top-10-quarterbacks-qbs-ranked-right-now#gid=ci02c08dc2e000262e&pid=10

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/37919975/ranking-nfl-top-10-quarterbacks-2023-execs-coaches-scouts-make-their-picks-best-passers

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/insider/story/_/id/37919975/ranking-nfl-top-10-quarterbacks-2023-execs-coaches-scouts-make-their-picks-best-passers

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-quarterback-rankings-2023-qbs-best-worst/yxvqewdhatrxu7qwajhb89vp

https://www.insider.com/nfl-2023-season-starting-quarterbacks-ranked-complete-list-2023-9

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-week-12-qb-power-rankings-ravens-lamar-jackson-rises-to-no-1-broncos-russell-wilson-also-jumps/

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-10-2023-nfl-season

 

They're right to point out the INTs. It's part of who he is. Pretty much all of them also point out his running, which is also part of who he is. It really would be better if he threw less. At least two games and arguably three, Allen was a large part of why we lost, and I'm sure he'd agree 100% with that. He also won us some games, no question. But inconsistency is held against QBs, and for good reason.

 

He doesn't get a lot of hate, he just doesn't. But yeah, they do throw his weaknesses in with the rest of his traits.

So what????  No one is going to not have him in their top 7 and that is not the point.

 

It is the criticism that is heaped on him that is often unwarrented.  

[Gregg]

10 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'm not missing anything. 

 

Mahomes has already cemented his legacy.  There are no question marks left for him except how many more Lombardis or MVPs can he win? 

 

Josh still has some very big boxes to check.  Until then, he's going to be scrutinized more than the guy who's already at the finish line with the flag waving.    

 

You are right about Mahomes, but he has had an advantage over Allen with a few things.

 

1. Better HC and coaching staff in general.

2. Much better OL although the Bills OL has improved this year.

3. The Chiefs defense while not great has shown they can step up in big spots.

 

This has resulted in the Chiefs winning two Super Bowls. Nothing against Mahomes who is a great QB and a future HOF player. If Allen is on the Chiefs and Mahomes is on the Bills, then it would be Allen with the 2 championships with Mahomes having none. IMHO