Greenberg - A Jets Fan - Pushing Back Against The Allen Hate

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

Yes, yes. I forgot that we're talking about golf.

Riiiiiight, which is why your top 2 QB’s in NFL history are Kelly and Marino, not Brady and Montana.

[Success]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Riiiiiight, which is why your top 2 QB’s in NFL history are Kelly and Marino, not Brady and Montana.

 

You can talk about perception. I'll talk about reality.

 

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, Success said:

 

You can talk about perception. I'll talk about reality.

 

Okay. Here’s reality:

 

Winning matters in sports. Rightly or wrongly. It matters. 
 

Folks will never hold Marino, or Rivers, or Kelly in the same regard as Montana or Brady. I know it’s a team sport, but the ultimate goal is to win. maybe that’s unfair, but that’s reality.

 

Maybe once upon a time Chargers fans said, “hey, we think Rivers is at least as good or better than Brady, why is he criticized more!”

 

We all know why. It’s obvious. 
 

You think Brady and Montana are better than Kelly and Marino. I know you do. You know why, too.

Edited December 7, 2023 by FireChans

[TAinLack.]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I'm feel'n better about our game already!!!

[Success]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Okay. Here’s reality:

 

Winning matters in sports. Rightly or wrongly. It matters. 
 

Folks will never hold Marino, or Rivers, or Kelly in the same regard as Montana or Brady. I know it’s a team sport, but the ultimate goal is to win. maybe that’s unfair, but that’s reality.

 

Maybe once upon a time Chargers fans said, “hey, we think Rivers is at least as good or better than Brady, why is he criticized more!”

 

We all know why. It’s obvious. 
 

You think Brady and Montana are better than Kelly and Marino. I know you do. You know why, too.

 

I think they are - for a LOT of reasons.  Kelly isn't really in the conversation, but I consider him top 10.  Marino has a real argument, for any fan of the game.

 

Clutch play is a big part of ranking - and both Brady and Montana won so much, because they were BOTH so clutch.  They made plays when it counted.

 

That, right now, is not a differentiator between Mahomes & Allen.  If anything, I think Allen was a bit more clutch in the 13 seconds game, though it's close.

 

Winning does matter - but not to the point where Dilfer is better than Marino, or Eli is better than Fouts.

 

We're still in the 1st third or so of both careers.  Mahomes has titles - but he has also had better coaching, more well-constructed teams, and more luck to this point.  Skill-wise, I'd still take Allen over Mahomes. And the time to really judge who is "better" is when they're both done.

 

[balln]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I think they are - for a LOT of reasons.  Kelly isn't really in the conversation, but I consider him top 10.  Marino has a real argument, for any fan of the game.

 

Clutch play is a big part of ranking - and both Brady and Montana won so much, because they were BOTH so clutch.  They made plays when it counted.

 

That, right now, is not a differentiator between Mahomes & Allen.  If anything, I think Allen was a bit more clutch in the 13 seconds game, though it's close.

 

Winning does matter - but not to the point where Dilfer is better than Marino, or Eli is better than Fouts.

 

We're still in the 1st third or so of both careers.  Mahomes has titles - but he has also had better coaching, more well-constructed teams, and more luck to this point.  Skill-wise, I'd still take Allen over Mahomes. And the time to really judge who is "better" is when they're both done.

 

Kelly is probably on par w Donovan mcnabb . Which is really

weird to say.

 

jim Kelly was my hero as a kid and was the best qb in my mind. 
 

but now w time and stats. He really wasn’t that all Time great.

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I think they are - for a LOT of reasons.  Kelly isn't really in the conversation, but I consider him top 10.  Marino has a real argument, for any fan of the game.

 

Clutch play is a big part of ranking - and both Brady and Montana won so much, because they were BOTH so clutch.  They made plays when it counted.

 

That, right now, is not a differentiator between Mahomes & Allen.  If anything, I think Allen was a bit more clutch in the 13 seconds game, though it's close.

 

Winning does matter - but not to the point where Dilfer is better than Marino, or Eli is better than Fouts.

 

We're still in the 1st third or so of both careers.  Mahomes has titles - but he has also had better coaching, more well-constructed teams, and more luck to this point.  Skill-wise, I'd still take Allen over Mahomes. And the time to really judge who is "better" is when they're both done.

 

To this point, who is higher in the QB pantheon of all active starting QB’s?

[Rew]

3 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Then why haven't Mayfield and Darnold gotten this type of hate. Both were also drafted ahead of Jackson.

Not sure why the media is so hard on Josh, but neither of them need an excuse to be critical of them.

[Success]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

To this point, who is higher in the QB pantheon of all active starting QB’s?

 

I'd rank Mahomes higher right now.  But it's pretty close.

 

My original point was more that nationally, Mahomes gets much more leeway for bad play.

 

[Bills aPHILLYate]

He is the best qb this team has ever had imo and he is a historically elite talent in general.

I will defend him to the end of the earth with all he is asked to do. 

As a Philly native I personally look at what Hurts has at his disposal and say if Allen had that they would be unstoppable. 

I genuinely feel like he should have numerous SB rings on his resume when it's all said and done.

 

[Man with No Name]

4 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Shouldn’t this put on page 15934027 of the “talking head says something about Buffalo Bills” thread?   
 

This way a lot of people will be able to see it?

Trying to think of something witty to add to this. i guess i'll just say it's my favorite post in thread, outside of the OP. 

[finn]

49 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Okay. Here’s reality:

 

Winning matters in sports. Rightly or wrongly. It matters. 
 

Folks will never hold Marino, or Rivers, or Kelly in the same regard as Montana or Brady. I know it’s a team sport, but the ultimate goal is to win. maybe that’s unfair, but that’s reality.

 

Maybe once upon a time Chargers fans said, “hey, we think Rivers is at least as good or better than Brady, why is he criticized more!”

 

We all know why. It’s obvious. 
 

You think Brady and Montana are better than Kelly and Marino. I know you do. You know why, too.

You're making the case against your own position here. You admit that you might be wrong ("rightly or wrongly") and that Kelly and Marino might be better, but that winning "matters" somehow. Why? If I flip a coin and win, am I better than you because winning matters and you're a loser? Marino ends up on a team that sucks except for him, so he's not as good as Montana? Brady goes to the Bills under Dick Jauron and so he'll never be GOAT?

 

You can't separate the QB from their team and coaches, even if "folks" believe otherwise. "Folks" are also sexist, racist, and deeply ignorant. That doesn't mean they're right. 

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

@Airseven what’s your take on this subject. 🙄, but no comment.  

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah no one makes for excuses for Allen here! 

The horror that Bills fans on TWO BILLS DRIVE might defend Allen from unfair and unhinged attacks by a minority of Bills "fans".  The horror!

 

 

[buffblue]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

I think they are - for a LOT of reasons.  Kelly isn't really in the conversation, but I consider him top 10.  Marino has a real argument, for any fan of the game.

 

Clutch play is a big part of ranking - and both Brady and Montana won so much, because they were BOTH so clutch.  They made plays when it counted.

 

That, right now, is not a differentiator between Mahomes & Allen.  If anything, I think Allen was a bit more clutch in the 13 seconds game, though it's close.

 

Winning does matter - but not to the point where Dilfer is better than Marino, or Eli is better than Fouts.

 

We're still in the 1st third or so of both careers.  Mahomes has titles - but he has also had better coaching, more well-constructed teams, and more luck to this point.  Skill-wise, I'd still take Allen over Mahomes. And the time to really judge who is "better" is when they're both done.

 

You really think Kelly is a top 10 all time qb? Love the guy, but that is just laughable

[T.E.]

5 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

That's ridiculous... got a legitimate source for that one?

The fact that is is clearly disliked for no real reason by, I don't know, 90% of black media members, maybe?

 

Christ, Dominique Foxworth said on an ESPN show that he didn't like Allen because the type of people who do "have American flags and pictures of their dogs in their Facebook profiles."

 

Pull your head out of the sand and read between the lines.

[Success]

13 minutes ago, buffblue said:

You really think Kelly is a top 10 all time qb? Love the guy, but that is just laughable

 

Should have said top 15. I used to think top 10, but that's changed w/ some of the great QB's over the past 15+ years.

 

But I think he's top 15.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Send this to Greeny!! 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

its weird how sensitive people are about Allen.

 

What's up nerd. 

 

It's weird how sensitive people are about Lamar Jackson and Cam Newton - yet you're the most sensitive when people bring them up in their discussions.  You're no different than the posters you complain about.   There's three things guaranteed in life - Death, Taxes, and @C.Biscuit97 never missing an opportunity to criticize Allen.  It's no secret you're not a fan.  

Edited December 7, 2023 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[T.E.]

5 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Go back & read the draft analysis by the Rosen supporters the day after the 1st round of the 2018 draft.  It started with the media members who were astonished that the Bills had the audacity to draft Allen over Rosen.  It was as if Beane questioned their manhood by choosing Allen over their boy, Rosen.  It had nothing to do with Lamar Jackson or your ridiculous assumption that Kirk Cousins gets treated badly because he beat out RGIII in Washington.  

There's nothing ridiculous about it. Compare how objectively good QBs with great stats like Allen and Cousins are criticized endlessly while a below-average one like Justin Fields is never held to the fire for poor performances and even gushed over.

 

The bias is real, despite it being a truth you find inconvenient.