Beane Presser 12.6.23 - interesting comments on Von

[DCofNC]

19 hours ago, zow2 said:

What i liked is that when asked about playing time, Beane said the best will be on the field regardless of their name.  And he specifically said if Von is not one of the best players on gameday, to help win these crucial games, he won't be in there.

Now you know he’s lying

[WotAGuy]

22 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

It is true. Being arrested means you are charged with a crime. That’s the entire point. The charges could eventually be dismissed and the case never goes to court. But make no mistake, an arrest warrant requires a charge or charges. As does being booked into a jail and posting bond. 

I do think there are semantics at work here.  There are “charges” a person is accused of and can be arrested for.  But there is also a formal filing of charges where the prosecutor has various timeframes in which to file the charges. 
 

How this applies in Texas is explained clearly in the first two pages in this link. I think the confusion is Von has been accused of “charges” and been arrested on that basis.  However, I have not seen confirmation that the prosecutor has formally filed charges and that Von has been arraigned to make his plea in response to the charges “filed”. 
 

The lack of charges being filed seems to be what the NFL and Bills are waiting for in terms of any disciplinary action. 
 

https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Our_Legal_System1&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=23456

Edited December 7, 2023 by WotAGuy

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, WotAGuy said:

I do think there are semantics at work here.  There are “charges” a person is accused of and can be arrested for.  But there is also a formal filing of charges where the prosecutor has various timeframes in which to file the charges. 
 

How this applies in Texas is explained clearly in the first two pages in this link. I think the confusion is Von has been accused of “charges” and been arrested on that basis.  However, I have not seen confirmation that the prosecutor has formally filed charges and that Von has been arraigned to make his plea in response to the charges “filed”. 
 

The lack of charges being filed seems to be what the NFL and Bills are waiting for in terms of any disciplinary action. 
 

https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Our_Legal_System1&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=23456

Without those formal charges, there’s not much to do, they’ll end up in court with the Players Union if they do.

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

It is true. Being arrested means you are charged with a crime. That’s the entire point. The charges could eventually be dismissed and the case never goes to court. But make no mistake, an arrest warrant requires a charge or charges. As does being booked into a jail and posting bond. 

Read the article, written by a lawyer in Texas who might know more than you.  You can be arrested based on probable cause which is what has happened.  The decision to bring formal charges is made separately and may or may not occur.  Being arrested and being charged are two different things.

[RichRiderBills]

For God's sake the legal beagles that show up. He was charged. He was arrested, booked, arraigned and posted bail. They can't propose bail or keep you detained after arrest without charging. If Von had not posted bond he'd still be in the can. 

 

I'm not going to dispute that you can be arrested without being charged in some cases. But, not when a warrant was issued, executed and those subsequent steps occured. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by RichRiderBills

[WotAGuy]

12 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

For God's sake the legal beagles that show up. He was charged. He was arrested, booked, arraigned and posted bail. They can't propose bail or keep you detained after arrest without charging. If Von had not posted bond he'd still be in the can. 

 

I'm not going to dispute that you can be arrested without being charged in some cases. Not when a warrant was issued, executed and those subsequent steps occured. 

 

 

How did he plea?  I hadn’t heard that he was arraigned. 

[jaab1028]

This organization sorely misses Kim Pegula,no way would she be in agreement with this.😪

[Mango]

3 hours ago, FLFan said:

This is actually not true.  Please see the article linked for an explanation.  The third paragraph in particular.  A person arrested may or may not be formally charged with a crime.  That is a separate step, and Miller has not yet been charged.

 

https://www.jasonenglishlaw.com/understanding-arrest-vs-conviction-in-texas

 

I believe Von Miller needing to post bail is the kicker here. 

Let me start by saying I am not an attorney, but I do not believe you can be held for bail without a charge. On the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn't be held on bail if you were brought in for questioning. 

[RichRiderBills]

30 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

How did he plea?  I hadn’t heard that he was arraigned. 

 

I would guess not guilty, but he may not have been arraigned. Since it would be by complaint, that may happen after indicted or PC hearing. That may be the kicker. He's certainly had an initial however. 

[WotAGuy]

Just now, RichRiderBills said:

 

I would guess not guilty, but he may not have been arraigned. Since it would be by complaint, that may happen after indicted or PC hearing. That may be the kicker. He's certainly had an initial however. 

So, like the rest of us, you don’t know what exactly has happened?

[RichRiderBills]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I believe Von Miller needing to post bail is the kicker here. 

Let me start by saying I am not an attorney, but I do not believe you can be held for bail without a charge. On the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn't be held on bail if you were brought in for questioning. 

 

Yeah for a short time for investigative detention but not for long. That's a fairly substantial constitutional violation. 

[RichRiderBills]

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

So, like the rest of us, you don’t know what exactly has happened?

 

I've never argued that I knew everything. I know enough and enough facts are record and easily obtained that Beane was being slick and slimy w his take. It's a bad look for the Bills. 

 

In fact, not knowing the whole deal is precisely the argument to put Von on some form of shelf. We don't know how this will go, and if I were Buff I'd play it safe. 

[Mango]

40 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

Yeah for a short time for investigative detention but not for long. That's a fairly substantial constitutional violation. 

 

Are you an attorney by chance? 

I have posited a few times that I think a lot of the grey area about charges or lack there of is the league/Bills working to try and bury the body cam and recordings submitted to police during the incident. 
 

[WotAGuy]

27 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Are you an attorney by chance? 

I have posited a few times that I think a lot of the grey area about charges or lack there of is the league/Bills working to try and bury the body cam and recordings submitted to police during the incident. 
 

How would the league/Bills go about this?

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

How would the league/Bills go about this?

 

One of two things that are happening right now: 

1. Working with local officials to either keep the case open. Open investigations are not subject to FOIA. 

2. Create a grey area where charges may or may not be officially filed. 

I believe both of these things were noted in the presser. Both would give Dallas enough teeth to decline any FOIA request (Texas is PIA). 
 

[WotAGuy]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

One of two things that are happening right now: 

1. Working with local officials to either keep the case open. Open investigations are not subject to FOIA. 

2. Create a grey area where charges may or may not be officially filed. 

I believe both of these things were noted in the presser. Both would give Dallas enough teeth to decline any FOIA request (Texas is PIA). 
 

So you don’t think he has been charged - i.e. had charges officially filed yet?

[yall]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

I believe Von Miller needing to post bail is the kicker here. 

Let me start by saying I am not an attorney, but I do not believe you can be held for bail without a charge. On the other end of the spectrum, you wouldn't be held on bail if you were brought in for questioning. 

I agree the bail makes it likely there was actually a charge of some sort.

 

I'm not aware of anyone being able to post bail absent some kind of charge being brought against you.

 

 

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

So you don’t think he has been charged - i.e. had charges officially filed yet?

 

Not a lawyer, so let me start there. 

But I believe he should have been if he posted bail. And via my own access to the internet it seems like that could even be a violation of the constitution if he wasn't. 

I do believe that the reason this is muddled is due to league/buffalo bills involvement in trying to slow/stop the process via request. Not 

[LabattBlue]

McD, BB & TP are all phonies, and I never want to hear about process and culture again, if they allow Thug Miller to be active Sunday or any other game this year. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by LabattBlue

[Big Turk]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:31 PM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Hate those misunderstandings with signed court statements from police and medical staff. 
 

 

 

Was Miller there when the police arrived?  On video shown doing this?  Did someone else witness it?  

 

Outside of that, this ends up being a "he said, she said" situation and that is called "hearsay" in a court of law.

 

Do you know how badly she will get eviscerated by his defense attorney if she takes the stand? It would get ugly.  

 

And if she refuses to testify, or even worse, testifies for the defense, how is that going to look for the prosecution?  They would then get eviscerated by the defense attorney.

 

Unless the DA has some other evidence I don't see how he gets charged with this, too much in the unknown category and too many leaps and assumptions would need to be made that can't be proven. DA's don't like trying cases they know they are unlikely to be able to win, it makes them look bad when they are up for re-election.

 

Remember, just like Denzell famously said in Training Day - "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove!"

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Big Turk