I hope that Beane stops listening to McDermott when drafting

[Mister Defense]

47 minutes ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

 

I agree with some of the specific needs, but why on earth would they create a new need by not signing Jones?  He was as good or better than Oliver, who is having his best year, a dominant force against the run and pass before he went out.  I cannot wait to see our two tackles back together again.  In fact, I am really hoping that Jones comes back this year, and soon.  It will change the defense and McD's options.

 

And with so little word on Milano I guess you may be right that his career may be in jeopardy.  But what prompts you to say that?  Seems extremely overly pessimistic!  And again, you seem to create another need even though it is not warranted.

 

I agree with them getting an excellent wide receiver #2 and fast power running back, which are likely two missing elements from this team.  I am hoping the (almost always injured) Damien Harris could fill that role, but he is simply not available, year after year. Unfortunately, we likely need a #1 corner because of the whiff on Elam. Safety too.

 

And yes, almost guaranteed that McD gets a D coordinator this year, as you can see it in his face, words, and body language that to be the head coach he wants to be, needs to be, he cannot also be in charge of the defense. He talks more and more about the "details" this year and in his new dual role it is simply not possible to be on top of those details when it comes to the overall team. Likely: Frazier returns?

 

The Bills have needs if they are to rise to the top next year.  So let's not add the hypothetical needs at linebacker and D tackle when two players at those positions, two of our best guys, are very likely coming back to the Bills at full strength.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

 

The best statistical WR drafted this season so far is... puka nacua (picked in the 5th).  The 2nd best statistically has been Tank Dell (picked in the 3rd).  I'm not fully opposed to a WR in the first - but im opposed to trading up (team has a ton of holes on defense at this point, and needs more contributors on rookie deals).  Just need to see how the board falls and if there's a guy there that you like.   

 

Offensive linemen i can imagine spending some capital on - however we have a starting 5 (bates in for morse potentially), and developmental players (anderson and van demark).  I think a pick here doesn't hurt us though as buffalo has 10 picks.  Try and get meaner.  They usually want to fill the depth out with veterans.  

 

RB - Hate using a decent pick on this when you see guys like pacheco, allgeier, and Kyren williams producing in the 5th round or later. 

 

Defense -

A DE - If they bring AJE back then we'll have 3.  Could see this being the 1st round target.  I wouldn't be shocked if they draft 2.  

A 1T - even if they bring DQ back we have a need here and these players usually end up in that 3-5 round range.

A 3T - These are harder to find as pass rush is a big component of it - could see this being a 1st round target.  

A CB - White either needs to take a pay cut or he is gone - you can't pay a player that much with his recent injury history.  Douglas.  Benford.  Elam (dog house right now, but he's under contract and there's still as much potential in him as there is in any random late round pick)

A NB - Neal is probably cut, Johnson i could see extended but again - this is a later round range spot. They also seem to like lewis here.

Safety - I see them going after vet's here.  There's a lot available, and some good players will end up in that 1yr 4-6M range.  Wouldn't hate if they drafted here.  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

I agree with some of the specific needs, but why on earth would they create a new need by not signing Jones?  He was as good or better than Oliver, who is having his best year, a dominant force against the run and pass before he went out.  I cannot wait to see our two tackles back together again.  In fact, I am really hoping that Jones comes back this year, and soon.  It will change the defense and McD's options.

 

And with so little word on Milano I guess you may be right that his career may be in jeopardy.  But what prompts you to say that?  Seems extremely overly pessimistic!  And again, you seem to create another need even though it is not warranted.

 

I agree with them getting an excellent wide receiver #2 and fast power running back, which are likely two missing elements from this team.  I am hoping the (almost always injured) Damien Harris could fill that role, but he is simply not available, year after year. Unfortunately, we likely need a #1 corner because of the whiff on Elam. Safety too.

 

And yes, almost guaranteed that McD gets a D coordinator this year, as you can see it in his face, words, and body language that to be the head coach he wants to be, needs to be, he cannot also be in charge of the defense. He talks more and more about the "details" this year and in his new dual role it is simply not possible to be on top of those details when it comes to the overall team. Likely: Frazier returns?

 

The Bills have needs if they are to rise to the top next year.  So let's not add the hypothetical needs at linebacker and D tackle when two players at those positions, two of our best guys, are very likely coming back to the Bills at full strength.

 

 

 

We already drafted his potential replacement in williams as well.. 

 

DQ is a free agent as well.  He seems to like playing here and they can probably make it work as he's a 30+ year old 1T coming off an injury.  

Edited December 5, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[nedboy7]

I think they will draft based on what players land at the spot.  They probably have several positions of need identified and will go with best available in that situation. 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

I'll be pissed if they keep drafting early defensive players like Kincaid and Torrence and Cook! Screw that Shakir guy too he can't cover anyone!

I think a realistic evaluation of their draft strategy should factor in opportunity cost lost by going w so many day1/2 prospects on defense

 

esp if we consider those guys w NFL traits on the offensive side of the ball are likely to be higher impact overall

[34-78-83]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think a realistic evaluation of their draft strategy should factor in opportunity cost lost by going w so many day1/2 prospects on defense

 

esp if we consider those guys w NFL traits on the offensive side of the ball are likely to be higher impact overall

it was sarcasm pointing out that the original take was inaccurate, especially the last 2 drafts. I hope we go offense 1 and 2 again this year also.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, 34-78-83 said:

it was sarcasm pointing out that the original take was inaccurate, especially the last 2 drafts. I hope we go offense 1 and 2 again this year also.

yes I realize it was sarcasm, i will refer to an earlier comment i left

 

59 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

First round offensive players are just better value overall for this team in that you are getting guys w NFL traits that get the luxury of playing w Allen, they are predisposed to succeed

 

Continuing to draft defensive players w first/second round picks and attempting (sometimes failing) to fit them into your scheme on defense is -ev imo

 

another first rounder on defense this past offseason would have been suicide

 

[John from Riverside]

Do you think that Dalton was a McDermott pick

[boater]

1 hour ago, margolbe said:

We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

Yeah. The Special Teams coach, Smiley, is in over his head. He doesn't have the pedigree to be at this level in the NFL.

[Don Otreply]

24 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

I'll be pissed if they keep drafting early defensive players like Kincaid and Torrence and Cook! Screw that Shakir guy too he can't cover anyone!

Three high picks in six years, out side of Allen…, it is an underinvestment no matter how you spin it, a better balance is pretty obviously needed, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, margolbe said:

The greatest strength of this team is offense, so we don't need to keep drafting undersized linebackers and corners who can't cover.

 

We need a true number 2 wide receiver (assuming Diggs stays), another offensive lineman (or two), a RB in the line of Murray, but with youth.  
On the defensive side we need someone to replace DeQuan Jones (assuming he goes elsewhere).  Don't know how Milano is going to recover, so we should consider his replacement.

 

I also think it would worth drafting a developmental quarterback so we don't all have to sweat when Josh takes a hard hit.

 

I hope that we also hire a defensive coordinator.  Although McDermott is a genius in his own mind, we need a fresh voice on defense.  We also need to fire the ST coach and get some one good in here.

 

I swear, its like there are people here who don't watch football or the games.  

 

So you are unhappy that Bills drafted Milano (undersized LB) and Bernard (maybe our best defensive player on the season thus far and also undersized LB)?  Landing an all pro LB in Milano in the 5th round and then landing Bernard in the 3rd is an issue for you? 

 

You are equally upset with finding quality cornerbacks who are good enough to start in the NFL late in drafts too like Benford and Dane is also an issue for you?  

 

Literally this is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever seen.  Hey, lets stop drafting all-pros, potential pro-bowlers, and quality depth and starters late in drafts so we can draft a bunch of offensive guys that likely don't make the team.  

 

And then the irony is in a thread where you literally said to stop drafting defense basically you also say we need to replace Jones (who was playing as one of the best DT's in the NFL this year prior to getting hurt) and Milano (an all pro MLB whose injury is expected to be a full recovery).  So with no money to spend, where are the Bills getting those "replacements" if you don't want them drafting them?  LOL, this thread really makes no sense what so ever.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[oldmanfan]

42 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

No he is not per spotrac. He will be a UFA. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/daquan-jones-14523/#:~:text=DaQuan Jones signed a 2,dead cap value of %2410%2C416%2C668.

 

Yep, thanks for clarifying.  I suspect he’ll be a priority

[coloradobillsfan]

47 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

What about him? every so often an above average offensive weapon is drafted, but it sure doesn’t make up for the constant lack of quality offensive draft picks that get used on guys like Boogie Basham…, 

Every time I hear Creed Humphrey's name I get another grey hair

[Straight Hucklebuck]

45 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

But but but but, they traded a first for Diggs, in a wildly deep WR class.  The pick they traded turned into Jefferson, they could have sent virtually the same package and had Lamb, why does is matter? CAP space.   Those guys are studs on rookie deals.  Yes they are going to get paid, BUT you could have saved 2 starting DTs worth of cap for 4/5 years and when you paid them, have a 24 year old, not a 30 year old.  That’s huge. 
 

For as much hate as I give Davis, he’s been a very productive 4th round pick and if he was playing the #3 the way he should be, nobody would be mad. 
 

The problem with the assets being spent on drafting D isn’t that you spent the picks, it’s that you didn’t hit on any of them.  Back to back DEs that were so impactful, you had to go sign an aging Miller to a monster deal and that obviously looks even worse now.   Oliver is fine, but 3 DTs after him are absolutely in a different league than he is.  Elam.. good lord.. that one cost us next years 3rd round pick and more money to make up for that gaffe in order to survive this year. 
 

The thing the apologist want to argue is the number of guys Beane drafted that are in the NFL.  The reality is, quantity is nice, but they’re no impact players.  Literally none.   There’s a chance that he finally hit with Kincaid, but that remains to be seen as right now he basically producing as a good slot WR.  Don’t get me wrong, love it, but that’s not a massive impact player, yet. 
 

The reason this team is in cap hell is poor drafting.  The reason this team is looked at as having lesser talent vs the other contenders is POOR DRAFTING.  If we want to be really honest, neither Beane nor McClappy would be here if they had not hit on Allen.  Without him elevating the entire team, both would be elsewhere.

Agree. 

 

The Bills have not drafted any players that became high-end talents since Allen. 

 

Offensively, they finally invested with their 1st and 2nd Rounders this year and both have become starting level players. 

[finn]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

They have Milano’s replacement with Williams, just as they had Edmunds replacement in Bernard.  I think Jones is signed for next year?  

I had a heretic thought this morning: What about trading Milano for a first-round pick? The Bills have to find some way out of cap hell next year without gutting the roster. They need a WR and a safety at the very least. If Williams can replace Milano, the pick could go to one of these two needs, while our our pick could go to the other. Meanwhile, the caps saving might possibly be enough to re-sign Jones or Floyd. As long as he's healthy, Milano is top-ten player in the entire league. He should warrant a first-rounder. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Agree. 

 

The Bills have not drafted any players that became high-end talents since Allen. 

 

Offensively, they finally invested with their 1st and 2nd Rounders this year and both have become starting level players. 

 

I'm on record criticizing Beane for too many singles and doubles and not enough home runs. However, with your example of Allen, Beane hasnt had any other picks in the top 10. Usually mid to late 20s. So there is that. But still not an excuse.

 

It's part of the reason I've about cashed it in for this season and hope the Bills end up around 12-15. We wasted half the season on Dorsey, it's a lost cause at this point. Let's see what Beane and Co. can do with a decent position throughout the draft for once. Especially with how critical this draft will be given all the players we will need to replace.

[34-78-83]

15 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Three high picks in six years, out side of Allen…, it is an underinvestment no matter how you spin it, a better balance is pretty obviously needed, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Different years, different needs that made sense at the time to form a complete team. Diggs was also a high pick essentially... a plug and play one. Keep drafting offense, yes, I agree. Also, McD is NOT undermining Beane picks which is the attempted point of this thread. It's 100% unfounded.

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Agree. 

 

The Bills have not drafted any players that became high-end talents since Allen. 

 

Offensively, they finally invested with their 1st and 2nd Rounders this year and both have become starting level players. 

Unsurprisingly considering the expenditures tho

 

I mean they've gotten above average returns on 4th round Davis 5th round Shakir and 3rd round megaproject Knox

 

Now imagine if a few of Elam/Basham/Rousseau/Epensesa/Oliver had been offensive picks

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, finn said:

I had a heretic thought this morning: What about trading Milano for a first-round pick? The Bills have to find some way out of cap hell next year without gutting the roster. They need a WR and a safety at the very least. If Williams can replace Milano, the pick could go to one of these two needs, while our our pick could go to the other. Meanwhile, the caps saving might possibly be enough to re-sign Jones or Floyd. As long as he's healthy, Milano is top-ten player in the entire league. He should warrant a first-rounder. 

 

Interesting idea.

 

The roster needs to be gutted anyways. White, Poyer, and Morse need to go based on age/injury/physiology alone.

 

If we bring in a new HC and therefore a new DC, I could see them moving Milano. But at the same time, he's the closest thing we have to a normal sized LB if the new coaches plan on running any other scheme. So.. 🤷‍♂️

 

That all said, I'm pretty sure trading a player escalates all their guaranteed/dead money. So trading him would be an even bigger hit to the cap for us.

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'm on record criticizing Beane for too many singles and doubles and not enough home runs. However, with your example of Allen, Beane hasnt had any other picks in the top 10. Usually mid to late 20s. So there is that. But still not an excuse.

 

It's part of the reason I've about cashed it in for this season and hope the Bills end up around 12-15. We wasted half the season on Dorsey, it's a lost cause at this point. Let's see what Beane and Co. can do with a decent position throughout the draft for once. Especially with how critical this draft will be given all the players we will need to replace.

Oliver was 9th overall iirc

[TBBills Fan]

59 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

ATM??   I’m not sure this means what you think it means….

ass to mouth, we all know t his