O'Cyrus Torrence.....A pretty solid rookie season?? Plus, thoughts on Beane.

[John from Riverside]

33 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

Starting to wonder if Elam is really as bad as I’ve thought or if our genius DC just doesn’t know how to develop him. 

One thing that McDermott has been good at over his years has been developing cornerbacks

[CookieG]

10 hours ago, Special K said:

Torrence got off to a really strong start to his rookie season, but I have noticed a few rookie mistakes over the last few weeks surprisingly in run-blocking plays.

 

Overall, I think he is having an overall solid rookie year, and has the potential to be a Pro-Bowl level Guard for years to come.

 

Another good pick by Beane over the last few years.....yes he absolutely whiffed on the Elam pick, but he added 3 starters in that Draft(Cook, Bernard, Benford) and the picks of Kincaid, Torrence, and D. Williams are all looking quite promising.

 

Thoughts??

It was a good pick, but to me, it was also an obvious pick. 

 

-The BIlls needed serious help on the OL.  You have a stud, franchise QB who was getting pressured on more than 1/3 of his passes in 2002;

- A guy fell to late in the 2nd round who was arguably the best interior blocker in the draft, or at most the top 2-3;

- it was a guy who dominated at Louisiana, so he moved to the SEC and dominated there.  He went to the Senior Bowl and dominated there;

- towards the end of the 2nd when he was drafted most of the top interior OL were already gone, Avila, Tippman, Schmitz, etc;

- there was a serious drop off in talent after those guys were picked;

- this team's ability to find a "late round gem" on the OL is spotty at best. The one real one they found was traded.

 

So he fell to the Bills.  It was more of a no brainer pick than anything.  I seriously doubt Beane was saying, "don't worry, Torrance will be there when we pick in the 2nd".  He dropped, he was there, the pick became easy. 

 

It was the right choice.

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Torrence was my guy during the pre draft process. Watched a lot of him and was (and am still) excited we have him. He did start strong. Very strong. He's still winning a high percentage of his reps. As you said, there have been a few flaws lately but I think this is more of teams watching him and exploiting his weaknesses which seems to be speed on the inside (to his left).

 

I have no doubt he'll get that cleaned up.

 

 

Exactly that. You can't bull rush him. Teams have adjusted even moving some speed rushers inside in pass rush situations to try and exploit Cyrus' relative lack of footspeed and ate targeting his inside shoulder. Basically if he gets the first punch the rep is over. But he is susceptible to inside speed rushers who are on him before he gets his punch in. 

 

He has had a good rookie year. I think there is more to come there. 

[Pete]

Elam is about to come off PUP list.  Seeing how banged up our back 7 are, Elam will be a welcome addition.  I mean would you rather have Josh Norman or Elam?  Elam shined in the playoffs last year, and has physical skills. Elam might still be a useful player.  People were hating on Bernard pick too.

 

Beane is the best GM in NFL IMO, and we are lucky to have him.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I think Beane tends to draft based on potential, often taking younger players that will need more time to develop.  Some players develop faster others longer and some never or at least not to the level they were drafted at.  Think that's the one downside of drafting based on potential, a bigger risk that they don't develop.   Players like Allen, Edmunds, Epenesa, Knox, Brown to name a handful all fit that bill and took some time and have become good to decent players.  Of all them Allen was the one who developed much faster and better than anyone ever expected.

[RiotAct]

6 hours ago, Pete said:

Elam is about to come off PUP list.  Seeing how banged up our back 7 are, Elam will be a welcome addition.  I mean would you rather have Josh Norman or Elam?  Elam shined in the playoffs last year, and has physical skills. Elam might still be a useful player.  People were hating on Bernard pick too.

 

Beane is the best GM in NFL IMO, and we are lucky to have him.

Elam is mostly a “break glass in case of emergency”-type player for the rest of this season, IMO.  Still, would rather have him available than not.

 

Regarding the bolded: surely you can’t be serious.

[Einstein]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Very early in this season we had a mod start/title a thread declaring Spencer Brown the biggest problem on the team.........echoing the sentiments of A LOT of other parrots who seemed to have zero perspective on the expected learning curve for an NFL RT from a small school with little actual college game experience.

 

To be honest I agree with whatever mod wrote that.

Spencer Brown is still the biggest liability on offense. Not to be confused with the biggest missing component (which is a #2 WR and playmaker). 

The reason we don't notice Spencer Brown as much anymore is because the Bills are giving him a lot of help from the TE staying in and chips from from the TE's and RB's going out in pass routes. Last time I checked the advanced stats, Brown was 2nd highest in the entire NFL for number of times needing help from another offensive player.

 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, RiotAct said:

 

 

Regarding the bolded: surely you can’t be serious.

Imagine if this team still had DaQuan, Milano, and Tra? And healthy Von and Hines?  Beane assembled the finest roster in the NFL.  Injuries happen to every team.  Bills have been most unlucky with injuries and calls and luck.  Season is not over yet.  We still have Josh, and we are always in it with Josh.  Yes I am serious, Beane is the best GM IMO, and don't call me Shirley

[Special K]

49 minutes ago, Einstein said:

To be honest I agree with whatever mod wrote that.

Spencer Brown is still the biggest liability on offense. Not to be confused with the biggest missing component (which is a #2 WR and playmaker). 

The reason we don't notice Spencer Brown as much anymore is because the Bills are giving him a lot of help from the TE staying in and chips from from the TE's and RB's going out in pass routes. Last time I checked the advanced stats, Brown was 2nd highest in the entire NFL for number of times needing help from another offensive player.

 

 

I agree with this......I want a RT that doesn’t need constant help from TE’s and RB’s on every pass play.

 

I don’t hate Spencer Brown, but his position certainly can and should be upgraded.

[BADOLBILZ]

47 minutes ago, Einstein said:

To be honest I agree with whatever mod wrote that.

Spencer Brown is still the biggest liability on offense. Not to be confused with the biggest missing component (which is a #2 WR and playmaker). 

The reason we don't notice Spencer Brown as much anymore is because the Bills are giving him a lot of help from the TE staying in and chips from from the TE's and RB's going out in pass routes. Last time I checked the advanced stats, Brown was 2nd highest in the entire NFL for number of times needing help from another offensive player.

 

 

 

Well the mod said that he was the biggest problem on the team..........not just the offense.

 

I'd say that the biggest problem on the team has been the defense.......particularly the late game defense.   I don't think that's even debatable.   

 

Runner-up being offensive execution during their bad stretch before Dorsey was fired.........but offensive line execution was the least of the offense's issues during that stretch.    The blocking for Allen and the RB's has been the most consistent unit on the offense all season.

 

Point being:   Some of you are just afraid to admit that you were wrong about Brown and didn't think he could improve.    He's been far from the biggest problem.   

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I agree with this......I want a RT that doesn’t need constant help from TE’s and RB’s on every pass play.

 

I don’t hate Spencer Brown, but his position certainly can and should be upgraded.

 

 

Good luck with that.

 

There is one of those........Lane Johnson........and in truth he could start at LT for most teams.

 

Spencer Brown is playing like Mike McGlinchey this year and McGlinchey is making $17M aav for the next 5 years.

 

Any other one-of-a-kind players you think the Bills should have replaced their starter with by now?

[Special K]

24 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Good luck with that.

 

There is one of those........Lane Johnson........and in truth he could start at LT for most teams.

 

Spencer Brown is playing like Mike McGlinchey this year and McGlinchey is making $17M aav for the next 5 years.

 

Any other one-of-a-kind players you think the Bills should have replaced their starter with by now?

 

What you see as “improvement” from Brown, I see as a blocking scheme designed by the Bills to mask Brown’s pass blocking deficiencies.

 

As said earlier in the thread, he is still the weakest link on the line, and if there is a RT in the draft with a first or second round grade the Bills like, I hope they draft them.

 

Even if he is playing at a 17mil per year level as you think(which he is not), the Bills aren’t paying him that much, and a replacement would need to be drafted anyway.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Special K

[SoonerBillsFan]

I wanted him as our 1st round pick.  I think he can be All Pro.

[Coach Tuesday]

44 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

What you see as “improvement” from Brown, I see as a blocking scheme designed by the Bills to mask Brown’s pass blocking deficiencies.

 

As said earlier in the thread, he is still the weakest link on the line, and if there is a RT in the draft with a first or second round grade the Bills like, I hope they draft them.

 

Even if he is playing at a 17mil per year level as you think(which he is not), the Bills aren’t paying him that much, and a replacement would need to be drafted anyway.

The weakest link of the line this year has probably been Morse.

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

What you see as “improvement” from Brown, I see as a blocking scheme designed by the Bills to mask Brown’s pass blocking deficiencies.

 

As said earlier in the thread, he is still the weakest link on the line, and if there is a RT in the draft with a first or second round grade the Bills like, I hope they draft them.

 

Even if he is playing at a 17mil per year level as you think(which he is not), the Bills aren’t paying him that much, and a replacement would need to be drafted anyway.

 

 

 

First of all......... if you gotta' ask "if there is" a prospect,  when there is only one Lane Johnson in the NFL and then the rest of the RT's in the NFL need help,  then you are almost expecting a miracle to be a given.

 

Second........if you think it's even wise to use early picks on RT's you REALLY don't even follow how NFL draft picks pan out..........unless they are premium LT prospects they are almost always projects and are usually terrible for 2-3 years.    And the progress isn't linear.   Like with Cody Ford and Spencer Brown sometimes the rookie year is actually a false semi-positive and year 2 gets worse once there is tape on their weaknesses.    RT is a terrible use of an early pick.    Either way you gotta' figure on several years of development,  wherever you draft them.

 

Third........you clearly don't understand what you get for $17M in the veteran RT market.   You get ADEQUATE play.   Which IS what Brown is giving them at RT........as is McGlinchey giving Denver.   Every team uses TE's and primarily to the right side so wanting a RT who never needs TE help is nice to want but not particularly important.   Guys like Andrew Wylie are plenty good enough to win a SB with and he has been mostly bad in his career.

 

They WILL likely have to replace Brown after next season because,  like the Chiefs and Niners this past offseason,  it's hard to justify paying RT's like Wylie and McGlinchey open market value when you are a contender with a big QB contract.

 

I would hope the Bills win out and somehow make the playoffs but the odds are that they won't and won't...........and if the last game or 2 is meaningless hopefully they rest guys like Allen and Diggs and the team gets an in-season look at young OL like Gouraige and Van DeMark at the tackle positions and Anderson at C.    They all look like nice developmental prospects and Gouraige in year 3 may end up having to be the solution at RT in 2025,  even if they draft one.

[Simon]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Well the mod said that he was the biggest problem on the team..........not just the offense.

 

You are a liar.

Again.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The weakest link of the line this year has probably been Morse.

 

 

My vote would be McGovern.......with Torrence a close second after some sloppier play as the season has gone on.   But I'd say it's definitely been an inside blocker.   But they've all been at least solid and their play as a unit has been better than the sum of the parts.

 

But as I was saying before I was rudely interrupted,  with regard to RT........there are less good RT's in the league than any other offensive position.    So when your RT isn't very good you really need to keep that in perspective.

 

The Bills biggest problem on offense coming into the season was clearly an insufficient amount of playmakers in the passing game for a SB contender.   Specifically the lack of a dynamic second option.   And it's manifested itself in the inability to consistently execute offensively.    Drops, fumbles, inability to win contested catch situations, miscommunications........even in the Eagles game those were STILL killing them.