O'Cyrus Torrence.....A pretty solid rookie season?? Plus, thoughts on Beane.

[Codyny13]

3 hours ago, Special K said:

Torrence got off to a really strong start to his rookie season, but I have noticed a few rookie mistakes over the last few weeks surprisingly in run-blocking plays.

 

Overall, I think he is having an overall solid rookie year, and has the potential to be a Pro-Bowl level Guard for years to come.

 

Another good pick by Beane over the last few years.....yes he absolutely whiffed on the Elam pick, but he added 3 starters in that Draft(Cook, Bernard, Benford) and the picks of Kincaid, Torrence, and D. Williams are all looking quite promising.

 

Thoughts??

I think generally some rookies run out of steam. It’s a long season after a college football transition. The bye week should do him well.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

4 hours ago, Special K said:

Torrence got off to a really strong start to his rookie season, but I have noticed a few rookie mistakes over the last few weeks surprisingly in run-blocking plays.

 

Overall, I think he is having an overall solid rookie year, and has the potential to be a Pro-Bowl level Guard for years to come.

 

Another good pick by Beane over the last few years.....yes he absolutely whiffed on the Elam pick, but he added 3 starters in that Draft(Cook, Bernard, Benford) and the picks of Kincaid, Torrence, and D. Williams are all looking quite promising.

 

Thoughts??

you mean “Flag Football” level Guard..

[MasterStrategist]

4 hours ago, Special K said:

Torrence got off to a really strong start to his rookie season, but I have noticed a few rookie mistakes over the last few weeks surprisingly in run-blocking plays.

 

Overall, I think he is having an overall solid rookie year, and has the potential to be a Pro-Bowl level Guard for years to come.

 

Another good pick by Beane over the last few years.....yes he absolutely whiffed on the Elam pick, but he added 3 starters in that Draft(Cook, Bernard, Benford) and the picks of Kincaid, Torrence, and D. Williams are all looking quite promising.

 

Thoughts??

Agree, Torrence has at least been reliable/consistent for us (something we've lacked).

 

Agree on Beane in general, hitting on starters/key depth.  

 

Problem has been finding/hitting on "stars", Kincaid has the look of a future star though.  To keep up with big dogs, we need to find 1 every few seasons.  I'd say we're back on track, if Kincaid continues to be a force.  Ed has been a "star", need more though in general.  

 

The other problem has been the FA ROI on DL.  Finally hit on 2 key ones, in Floyd/Daquan.  But both FAs after this season. Going to need to keep "hitting" on his $4-$7m investments rentals.  I like his approach, and getting Von looked great until the ACL, but we are now getting "old" and alot of cap tied up in serious-injured players

[947]

The Guard play overall has been a significant improvement over last year. There's still some mistakes on stunts & occasional misses, but we're never overmatched there like we were so often in 2022. I feel really good about Torrence & McGovern for the future.

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, Success said:

 

Which is why I'm not so quick to write off 22-year-old Elam. 

 

 

Goodness gracious it’s Edmunds all over again.

 

In all seriousness though, the difference between Elam and your other examples (Epenesa), is that the team itself has written Elam off. They’re screaming “he sucks” and some and have their hands over their ears.

[CheshireCT]

4 hours ago, Success said:

It's something about the way we develop players (we tend to be slow in getting some rookies involved) - but one thing that is clear to me is that Beane's picks sometimes need time.  Epenesa is a great example. Oliver was sort of underachieving until this past year  I think most here had written Bernard off.

 

Which is why I'm not so quick to write off 22-year-old Elam.  I think he probably was hampered by injury a bit this year, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him start for us next year.

 

Agreed on Torrence - he has made some mistakes recently, but it's easy to see that he's a good lineman and was a good pick for us.

 

I think some of that has to do with McD too. Seems like he’s on the tougher end of “you have to earn it.”

 

with Elam, Beane and McD seem to have hinted at a loss of confidence. Which would be an explanation for the talented guy sitting on the bench.

[BigAl2526]

5 hours ago, Success said:

It's something about the way we develop players (we tend to be slow in getting some rookies involved) - but one thing that is clear to me is that Beane's picks sometimes need time.  Epenesa is a great example. Oliver was sort of underachieving until this past year  I think most here had written Bernard off.

 

Which is why I'm not so quick to write off 22-year-old Elam.  I think he probably was hampered by injury a bit this year, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him start for us next year.

 

Agreed on Torrence - he has made some mistakes recently, but it's easy to see that he's a good lineman and was a good pick for us.

 

McDermott clearly places a premium on experience, though he has normally started first round picks.  Elam was the one first rounder who did not quickly become a starter.  Oliver has taken a while to develop, but that's not unusual even for first round picks who start from day one.  If first round picks often need development time, it's no surprise that later picks like Epenesa and Bernard can take time to develop.  As for Elam, maybe he'll develop in McDermott's scheme and maybe not.  Lot's of first round picks bust.

 

I agree on Torrence.  He's been a successful first round pick and there's no reason to think he won't improve his technique and gain some polish going forward.

[oldmanfan]

Beane has done a good job overall.  I would have liked more attention to the lines because to me you build from inside out, but overall good job.  He got the franchise QB, the most critical thing.

[John from Riverside]

Would like to see a bring in some competition for that right tackle Cyrus would be even better. He’s gonna end up being a monster anyway.

[julian]

24 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Would like to see a bring in some competition for that right tackle Cyrus would be even better. He’s gonna end up being a monster anyway.

Sure, but definitely no need to spend a high pick to replace Brown like many thought prior to the season.

 

 Brown has put together a nice season and still has room to continue to improve alongside OCyrus going forward.

[John from Riverside]

17 minutes ago, julian said:

Sure, but definitely no need to spend a high pick to replace Brown like many thought prior to the season.

 

 Brown has put together a nice season and still has room to continue to improve alongside OCyrus going forward.

I think that our top pics should go to wide receiver and safety as long as the board falls, right
 

We could get a right tackle with that third round pick we get from Edmonds

 

I don’t want startneglecting the line right when we have it in the right direction

[julian]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

I think that our top pics should go to wide receiver and safety as long as the board falls, right
 

We could get a right tackle with that third round pick we get from Edmonds

 

I don’t want startneglecting the line right when we have it in the right direction

3rd is still to high for my liking, but I understand your reasoning.

[Since1981]

7 hours ago, Success said:

develop players (we tend to be slow in getting some rookies involved)

Hmmmm. Could it be that GM brought in the capability but the HC not efficiently ramping them up? Wait! Coaching matters!!?? 

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think that our top pics should go to wide receiver and safety as long as the board falls, right

Agreed. I am a “best player available” in general, within reason. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Since1981

[MasterStrategist]

30 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I think that our top pics should go to wide receiver and safety as long as the board falls, right
 

We could get a right tackle with that third round pick we get from Edmonds

 

I don’t want startneglecting the line right when we have it in the right direction

Yeah too high for my liking still, given Browns play this yr.  But I'm for Bpa.

 

Since we have just 1 3rd rounder now, I'd rather see Wr round 1, then S/DT with our next picks.

 

DT is an obvious early choice, given our lack of depth going forward

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

In all seriousness though, the difference between Elam and your other examples (Epenesa), is that the team itself has written Elam off. They’re screaming “he sucks” and some and have their hands over their ears.

 

 

Eh........we'll see.

 

Very early in this season we had a mod start/title a thread declaring Spencer Brown the biggest problem on the team.........echoing the sentiments of A LOT of other parrots who seemed to have zero perspective on the expected learning curve for an NFL RT from a small school with little actual college game experience.

 

Had he struggled?   Yeah but it was a big adjustment for him coming to the pro's and unlike the CB position the Bills didn't have access to a better option so they had to let Brown play thru his struggles. 

 

Perhaps for Elam the complicated zone-heavy defense has just proven a struggle to learn like the pro game did early on for the less talented Rasul Douglas.

 

Elam is a very talented player...........I'd be far less than surprised if he emerged as a good starter next season.

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, Success said:

It's something about the way we develop players (we tend to be slow in getting some rookies involved) - but one thing that is clear to me is that Beane's picks sometimes need time.  Epenesa is a great example. Oliver was sort of underachieving until this past year  I think most here had written Bernard off.

 

Which is why I'm not so quick to write off 22-year-old Elam.  I think he probably was hampered by injury a bit this year, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him start for us next year.

 

Agreed on Torrence - he has made some mistakes recently, but it's easy to see that he's a good lineman and was a good pick for us.

 

 

That translates to coaching though.  

 

The primary issue with that, and a huge problem for us, is that when your rookies develop late,  you waste their "cheap contract years."   

 

In essence, you're creating unnecessary cap issues for yourself.  

 

 

[Neo]

To the learned ….  he does a hand punch or jab pre snap.   Is he responding to signals being called?   While I’ve not exactly charted anything, he doesn’t seem to be “calling” this guy or that as his man …  I don’t see it elsewhere as regularly.   Gratefulness in advance …

[stevestojan]

Starting to wonder if Elam is really as bad as I’ve thought or if our genius DC just doesn’t know how to develop him. 

[Special K]

21 minutes ago, Neo said:

To the learned ….  he does a hand punch or jab pre snap.   Is he responding to signals being called?   While I’ve not exactly charted anything, he doesn’t seem to be “calling” this guy or that as his man …  I don’t see it elsewhere as regularly.   Gratefulness in advance …

 

I believe you are talking about the silent snap count.....he's looking at Josh Allen, then when Josh is ready for the snap, he moves his arm as a signal to Morse to snap the ball. You will only see this in games on the road....its used to combat the crowd noise.

[billybrew1]

10 hours ago, Success said:

It's something about the way we develop players (we tend to be slow in getting some rookies involved) - but one thing that is clear to me is that Beane's picks sometimes need time.  Epenesa is a great example. Oliver was sort of underachieving until this past year  I think most here had written Bernard off.

 

Which is why I'm not so quick to write off 22-year-old Elam.  I think he probably was hampered by injury a bit this year, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him start for us next year.

 

Agreed on Torrence - he has made some mistakes recently, but it's easy to see that he's a good lineman and was a good pick for us.

 

The slow developing DL is all on Frazier and his desire not attack with his DL until the playoffs (for the most part.) This slows down their development by a country mile and has them playing the wrong style…. Example: Ed did not attack during the regular season under Frazier and Ed skill-set is that of an attacking three-tech…… He played everyone out of position and McD is the answer to why Groot, Ed, DaQuon and AJ look so much better this year.