The Middle Ground on Parental Rights - gender dysphoria, surgeries, other issues

[HomeskillitMoorman]

Hoping to just have a non-partisan discussion just about this topic without the toxic Left-Right finger-pointing that dominates most of the threads here, if that's possible. The extremes on this topic are both equally positions that I don't like at all and find dangerous. 

 

- I do think a child should not be able to get a gender-transitioning surgery without parental consent. I know some people feel that they shouldn't be able to even with parental consent but I don't really want to get into that part here, I'm talking more about the philosophy of parental rights. I also know that's not a perfect solution as I can't really imagine what it would be like to have gender dysphoria and being told to wait until you're an adult - probably much easier said than done. And some kids have bad parents who would have a lot of issues with their children if they knew they wanted to do that.

 

But ultimately I just have to come back to some of those surgeries being something you can't really go back from, or it's very difficult and there's a good chunk of those children, certainly not all of them, that grow up and don't have those feelings or dysphoria anymore. 

 

- The other side of the extreme spectrum is those who are advocating that a counselor or therapist has to notify the parents if their child is telling them about any of these feelings or issues they might be having even if they are not getting any kind of medication or surgical procedure done. To me, this can be just as dangerous. This is stripping away access to help and support that young children might not otherwise seek out if they know their parents are going to be looped in.

 

I can't imagine if I had something like gender dysphoria or those feelings, it would probably be beyond humiliating to have my parents find out about it and that they'll always know. In some cases it's much worse. I grew up in Foster care and if I ever had anything like that or in my case if I was even just gay and told a counselor about it who told my foster parents, I know for 100% fact that at least 2 of my foster "dads" would have beat the absolute crap out of me. If I had to deal with any of those things, I would have had to just hold it in instead of seeking help if the laws said the parents had to be notified. And things like that can lead to teen suicides and all kinds of damage. 

 

There is no solution that's perfect here...but I think it's gotta be somewhere in the middle where children aren't able to get these surgeries but that they also have access to help and the confidence of privacy for it. I don't believe that parental rights should cross that line. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by HomeskillitMoorman

[Tommy Callahan]

I'm old school where child genital mutilation isn't something that should be allowed.  Like a tattoo or boob job.  

 

But understand outliers that would be dealing with true gender disporia need help 

 

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

Mental illness should not be encouraged. There is no good data that shows any mental health improvement occurs from these surgeries or telling people they can be another gender. Helping children means helping them accept the world as it really is if they are I'll and learn to deal with reality. As for adults if they want to pay for their own surgery we should allow it because we allow tattoos and other "dumb" things, so adults are allowed. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

Hoping to just have a non-partisan discussion just about this topic without the toxic Left-Right finger-pointing that dominates most of the threads here, if that's possible. The extremes on this topic are both equally positions that I don't like at all and find dangerous. 

 

- I do think a child should not be able to get a gender-transitioning surgery without parental consent. I know some people feel that they shouldn't be able to even with parental consent but I don't really want to get into that part here, I'm talking more about the philosophy of parental rights. I also know that's not a perfect solution as I can't really imagine what it would be like to have gender dysphoria and being told to wait until you're an adult - probably much easier said than done. And some kids have bad parents who would have a lot of issues with their children if they knew they wanted to do that.

 

But ultimately I just have to come back to some of those surgeries being something you can't really go back from, or it's very difficult and there's a good chunk of those children, certainly not all of them, that grow up and don't have those feelings or dysphoria anymore. 

 

- The other side of the extreme spectrum is those who are advocating that a counselor or therapist has to notify the parents if their child is telling them about any of these feelings or issues they might be having even if they are not getting any kind of medication or surgical procedure done. To me, this can be just as dangerous. This is stripping away access to help and support that young children might not otherwise seek out if they know their parents are going to be looped in.

 

I can't imagine if I had something like gender dysphoria or those feelings, it would probably be beyond humiliating to have my parents find out about it and that they'll always know. In some cases it's much worse. I grew up in Foster care and if I ever had anything like that or in my case if I was even just gay and told a counselor about it who told my foster parents, I know for 100% fact that at least 2 of my foster "dads" would have beat the absolute crap out of me. If I had to deal with any of those things, I would have had to just hold it in instead of seeking help if the laws said the parents had to be notified. And things like that can lead to teen suicides and all kinds of damage. 

 

There is no solution that's perfect here...but I think it's gotta be somewhere in the middle where children aren't able to get these surgeries but that they also have access to help and the confidence of privacy for it. I don't believe that parental rights should cross that line. 

Philosophically, I’m against ceding the rights of parent(s) to the state.  I can understand a child having a safe space to work through complex, anxiety-causing issues with a counselor, but there comes a point when this is a medical issue and a parent has a right (and an obligation) to be involved and look out for the best interest of the child.  
 

 

[K D]

Until age 18 the child is a minor and can't give legal consent for anything. So how is this even a question? If you are 18 and you feel like you want to do some weird stuff to your body then go for it. Leave kids alone until then. Their body is changing and their brain is developing, it's hard enough as it is without adults telling them they also might be the wrong gender!