Von Miller faces arrest in domestic violence case in Dallas

[BillsFanSD]

15 hours ago, Starr Almighty said:

So you rather raping a child over hitting an adult woman. I think they are both wrong but feel that the rape is way worse.

Matt Araiza didn't rape anybody.  If you read the police complaint, he wasn't even accused of raping anybody -- the accuser was very careful to make sure to say that she couldn't recall whether Araiza actually participated in the gang rape or not.  You've been misinformed by people in the media.  

 

Edit: Also, a 17 year-old isn't really a "child" for the purposes of this discussion.  She's a sexually-mature adult who can legally consent to sex in most US states and most of our peer countries.  I'm guessing most of us were sexually active when we were 17, and we know that's normal.  

Edited December 7, 2023 by BillsFanSD

[colin]

based on his play and his contract, i hope he gets a quick conviction and we nullify so our cap improves.

[Starr Almighty]

2 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

Matt Araiza didn't rape anybody.  If you read the police complaint, he wasn't even accused of raping anybody -- the accuser was very careful to make sure to say that she couldn't recall whether Araiza actually participated in the gang rape or not.  You've been misinformed by people in the media.  

 

Edit: Also, a 17 year-old isn't really a "child" for the purposes of this discussion.  She's a sexually-mature adult who can legally consent to sex in most US states and most of our peer countries.  I'm guessing most of us were sexually active when we were 17, and we know that's normal.  

I was replying to a comment here that said what Von did is worse than what Matt did. What exactly did Von do? He's only accused of doing something we don't know what he did. If you read 2 posts above yours you would see where I had to explain to that poster that I was comparing accusations. Why would I still believe he did something he was cleared of months ago?

[fergie's ire]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

Being proven in a court of law to choke your pregnant girlfriend is cause for suspension by the league.

 

 

But it does not need to be proven or even provable in a court of law in order for the league to suspend a player.  Just before Goodell became commissioner, it seemed like a different NFL player (usually, but not always, a Cincinnati Bengal) was getting arrested.  Chris Henry, in particular, was getting arrested all the time but not found guilty.  It gave the impression that the league was full of criminals who used their money and fame to get off.  So, Goodell came in on a campaign of being the guy who would clean it up.  He instituted policies that allowed players to be suspended even if not found guilty.  He has included these policies in the collective bargaining agreement.  Think about Ezekial Elliot who was suspended for six games for domestic abuse even though he was never charged.  Basically, if the NFL decides they want to suspend him, they can suspend him.  The latest collective bargaining agreement puts some limitations on the judge, jury, executioner powers...but not a lot.

 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

So how does one prove that 1) assault occurred, rather than something consensual that maybe went a step far and frightened the woman (or some other exculpatory scenario 2) Miller was the assailant?

 

There is evidence to collect and assemble that might paint a convincing picture supporting one or the other side. 

 

 

 

"My boyfriend is choking and hitting me... I have bruises all over me," she can be heard saying. "My hair is out."

Asked by the 911 dispatcher if her boyfriend was still with her, the girlfriend said, "He just stormed out."

"I don’t know," she said when asked by the dispatcher if she needed paramedics. "He pulled my hair out. I have, like, some blood on me -- but not, like… yeah, I don’t know."

 

 "the girlfriend began filming the incident on her phone own phone, which she put in her pocket. The affidavit said Miller then grabbed her and pushed her onto the couch, again placing pressure around her neck with both hands."

 

"Officers arrived and found Miller's longtime girlfriend with "minor abrasions" on her left hand and bruising on her neck -- "injuries consistent with applied pressure to the neck," according to an arrest warrant affidavit obtained by WFAA."

 

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

 

But it does not need to be proven or even provable in a court of law in order for the league to suspend a player.  Just before Goodell became commissioner, it seemed like a different NFL player (usually, but not always, a Cincinnati Bengal) was getting arrested.  Chris Henry, in particular, was getting arrested all the time but not found guilty.  It gave the impression that the league was full of criminals who used their money and fame to get off.  So, Goodell came in on a campaign of being the guy who would clean it up.  He instituted policies that allowed players to be suspended even if not found guilty.  He has included these policies in the collective bargaining agreement.  Think about Ezekial Elliot who was suspended for six games for domestic abuse even though he was never charged.  Basically, if the NFL decides they want to suspend him, they can suspend him.  The latest collective bargaining agreement puts some limitations on the judge, jury, executioner powers...but not a lot.

 

 

Dallas police have body cams and are required to turn them on for any call they are answering. In addition to the recording submitted to police, I will be very curious if they ever get released. Once this case is closed they should be fully subject to FOIA.

 

As somebody who has done some work on local committees through the state I am fairly familiar FOIA. Beane made a comment that pinged my ears. Something along the lines of "I think this one is going to be left open for a little bit".

 

Quote

Determining the applicability of this Exemption 7 subsection thus requires a two-step analysis focusing on (1) whether a law enforcement proceeding is pending or prospective, and (2) whether release of information about it could reasonably be expected to cause some articulable harm. (4)

 

It is beyond question that Exemption 7(A) is temporal in nature and is not intended to "endlessly protect material simply because it [is] in an investigatory file." (7) Thus, as a general rule, Exemption 7(A) may be invoked so long as the law enforcement proceeding involved remains pending, (8) or so long as an enforcement proceeding is fairly regarded as prospective (9) or as preventative. (10)

 

Although Exemption 7(A) is temporal in nature, it nevertheless remains viable throughout the duration of long-term investigations.

 

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

[Warcodered]

Meanwhile other former Bills fan favorite:

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Dallas police have body cams and are required to turn them on for any call they are answering. In addition to the recording submitted to police, I will be very curious if they ever get released. Once this case is closed they should be fully subject to FOIA.

 

As somebody who has done some work on local committees through the state I am fairly familiar FOIA. Beane made a comment that pinged my ears. Something along the lines of "I think this one is going to be left open for a little bit".

 

 

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

 

who is burying public records?

[stlbills13]

He'll have the same stats whether he plays or not. So at this point you might as well sit him and avoid any sort of blowback

[Mike in Horseheads]

I hope he plays like he is running from the law!

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I hope he plays like he is running from the law!

Well he turned himself in so maybe not like that.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

 

The recording of Kareem Hunt assaulting a woman over and over was released, and where is he today?

 

The league nor most fans care about it even when it is released, obviously. Watson got all that bad press and tweets and yet A MAN WHO ASSAULTED A WOMAN is still on their roster and crickets...

 

https://www.tmz.com/2018/11/30/kc-chiefs-kareem-hunt-attacked-kicked-woman-surveillance-video/

[JerseyBills]

Von definitely paid her a nice bag to say it was b.s

[Beck Water]

7 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

"My boyfriend is choking and hitting me... I have bruises all over me," she can be heard saying. "My hair is out."

Asked by the 911 dispatcher if her boyfriend was still with her, the girlfriend said, "He just stormed out."

"I don’t know," she said when asked by the dispatcher if she needed paramedics. "He pulled my hair out. I have, like, some blood on me -- but not, like… yeah, I don’t know."

 

 "the girlfriend began filming the incident on her phone own phone, which she put in her pocket. The affidavit said Miller then grabbed her and pushed her onto the couch, again placing pressure around her neck with both hands."

 

"Officers arrived and found Miller's longtime girlfriend with "minor abrasions" on her left hand and bruising on her neck -- "injuries consistent with applied pressure to the neck," according to an arrest warrant affidavit obtained by WFAA."

 

 

Right, bright eyes.

 

You're the prosecutor.  The alleged victim is now saying it's all overblown, it's all a mistake, and no one was assaulted.

 

How do you prove that the 911 call is the truth, and what she's saying now is cap?

 

How do you prove that her injuries were, in fact, caused by Von Miller - who was not at the scene when police arrived?  The girlfriend's pocket recorded audio.  You bring your experts in voice analysis, Von Miller will bring his.  Guess who can buy better experts?

 

The point isn't that there was not evidence leading to a judge to decide there was probable cause to issue an arrest warrant.  There was, as you note.

 

The point is that in the absence of a victim who is willing to testify, or who now testifies that nothing happened and she was exaggerating on the 911 call (because she became frightened during a consensual BDSM-type scene, say) - what exactly are the facts?  What is subject to proof?

It's not so simple to sort from a legal basis.

 

3 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Von definitely paid her a nice bag to say it was b.s

 

Quite possibly. 

Also quite possibly, she's enmeshed in the typical DV cycle and currently in the "remorse"/pursuit phase.
 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

 

But it does not need to be proven or even provable in a court of law in order for the league to suspend a player.  Just before Goodell became commissioner, it seemed like a different NFL player (usually, but not always, a Cincinnati Bengal) was getting arrested.  Chris Henry, in particular, was getting arrested all the time but not found guilty.  It gave the impression that the league was full of criminals who used their money and fame to get off.  So, Goodell came in on a campaign of being the guy who would clean it up.  He instituted policies that allowed players to be suspended even if not found guilty.  He has included these policies in the collective bargaining agreement.  Think about Ezekial Elliot who was suspended for six games for domestic abuse even though he was never charged.  Basically, if the NFL decides they want to suspend him, they can suspend him.  The latest collective bargaining agreement puts some limitations on the judge, jury, executioner powers...but not a lot.

 

 

You are correct and I've commented on this several times upthread.  The league can, and has, but they usually let the legal process play out and complete their own investigation first - all of which takes time.

 

In the Zeke Elliot case you cite, the league "sat on it"/investigated for more than a year before issuing a suspension.

 

The league has never swept in (that I can think of) and suspended a player at the 'accusations' stage.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Beck Water

[Malazan]

I like how many people who have previously defended Bills players to "let the process play out" are now calling for Von's head. It's amazing how opinions change depending on the skill of the player. 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Right, bright eyes.

 

You're the prosecutor.  The alleged victim is now saying it's all overblown, it's all a mistake, and no one was assaulted.

 

How do you prove that the 911 call is the truth, and what she's saying now is cap?

 

How do you prove that her injuries were, in fact, caused by Von Miller - who was not at the scene when police arrived?  The girlfriend's pocket recorded audio.  You bring your experts in voice analysis, Von Miller will bring his.  Guess who can buy better experts?

 

The point isn't that there was not evidence leading to a judge to decide there was probable cause to issue an arrest warrant.  There was, as you note.

 

The point is that in the absence of a victim who is willing to testify, or who now testifies that nothing happened and she was exaggerating on the 911 call (because she became frightened during a consensual BDSM-type scene, say) - what exactly are the facts?  What is subject to proof?

It's not so simple to sort from a legal basis.

 

 

Quite possibly. 

Also quite possibly, she's enmeshed in the typical DV cycle and currently in the "remorse"/pursuit phase.
 

 

 

wow bright eyes. ok.

 

anyway, I was correcting your inference had not been collected. It obviously has been.  The objective evidence are her own words and then also the responding officer's physical assessment that her appearance was consistent with the actions she described. In Texas, making a false 911 call is a Class A misdemeanor.  Charge her.

 

This "BDSM" defense hasn't even been brought up by the victim, but...kudos for you for going there.  The "hey it wasn't Von Miller, it was some other dude who sounds just like him!  I just wanted Vin Miller to get arrested for it (because I love him and he's good to me)....so I could then say, wait it wasn't Von, it wasn't the other dude who sounds just like him......it was NOBODY!  Never happened.  This is insane and sad!. This is actually outrageous!" defense pretty much speaks for itself...

 

 

[T master]

On 11/30/2023 at 9:35 AM, ALLinALLEN said:

This year is a mess

 

It's go too be the Madden curse !!! 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

23 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Dallas police have body cams and are required to turn them on for any call they are answering. In addition to the recording submitted to police, I will be very curious if they ever get released. Once this case is closed they should be fully subject to FOIA.

 

As somebody who has done some work on local committees through the state I am fairly familiar FOIA. Beane made a comment that pinged my ears. Something along the lines of "I think this one is going to be left open for a little bit".

 

 

I will be very interested to see if either recordings ever see the light of day. I doubt they will, and burying them is likely why there is so much grey area around "was Von charged?". If they do not, I certainly have a lot more questions about what happened that night. 

"Police" and "body cams mysteriously off" happen enough times that it's a cliche

[Nephilim17]

Maybe Von bought 100 subscriptions to Dunne's article! "Yeah, yeah, that's the story you guys all need to focus on, that's the one!"