Von Miller faces arrest in domestic violence case in Dallas

[RichRiderBills]

25 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

You called these three things (from @Bob Jones ) speculation:

 

1. Apparently, sometime during the melee, she started recording on her phone and then put it in her pocket, so that recording will take precedence over what they both say now.

2. Also, there's the matter of the cops seeing injuries on her body shortly after the fight.

3. And in Texas, it doesn't matter if the victim does not want to cooperate, they can & will prosecute the case if they feel that they have enough evidence.

 

By definition, these things are not speculation. I'm keeping up just fine, thanks.

 

Let's also add there was a warrant. The warrant affidavit had facts we will all get at some point. Von would be in jail now , but he paid bail. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Glad to see some articles mentioning that no one has been able to confirm that the person who texted the TV station was in fact the GF.

 

 

Also, Texas can pursue charges even if she goes back on the her statement. 
 

https://www.wivb.com/sports/buffalo-bills/texas-attorney-says-von-miller-investigation-will-continue-even-if-alleged-victim-recants/amp/

Edited December 3, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[NoName]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:19 AM, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Yep - you can pursue bonus money paid out or whatever... but you aren't really going to get cap space back.  

 

Likely ends up on exempt list - gets cut post June release.  We end up with 

 

2024 dead - 17M

2025 dead - 15.4M

2024 cap savings - 6.79M 

One of the Bills worst free agent acquisitions in the history of the organization. What does the numbers look like if he’s cut after 2024 season?

[97bills]

I hated the contract when we did it, that much money for a old player.. to many risk… 

[Blackbeard]

11 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

 

Also, Texas can pursue charges even if she goes back on the her statement

This is true.  But it’s very difficult to prove their case without her testimony. 
 

all the pictures in the world taken of her injuries are useless without her spoken words as to who did it.  Now maybe if you had video of him…

[Bobby Hooks]

1 hour ago, NoName said:

One of the Bills worst free agent acquisitions in the history of the organization. What does the numbers look like if he’s cut after 2024 season?

Let’s not pretend that it wasn’t working at the time. We were top five in pass rush, when he got hurt, we went to mid-twenties. We all knew the risks involved. We just so happened to get the worst case scenario.  Most believed where we were, and what we needed the risk was warranted. 
 

It’s tough, but we took a swing. I’d rather have a team with that mindset than what we had for the 20 year drought. This one just happened to backfire. 
 

 

 

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

This is true.  But it’s very difficult to prove their case without her testimony. 
 

all the pictures in the world taken of her injuries are useless without her spoken words as to who did it.  Now maybe if you had video of him…

 

There's the 911 call in which she spoke words, and the phone recording in which words were spoken, some in Von's voice.

 

But, if your basic point is that prosecutors rarely pursue a case without the alleged victim's cooperation, you're right.  It's so much harder to win, so especially if it's minor injuries they tend to let it drop.

 

 

[Drew21PA]

9 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Let’s not pretend that it wasn’t working at the time. We were top five in pass rush, when he got hurt, we went to mid-twenties. We all knew the risks involved. We just so happened to get the worst case scenario.  Most believed where we were, and what we needed the risk was warranted. 
 

It’s tough, but we took a swing. I’d rather have a team with that mindset than what we had for the 20 year drought. This one just happened to backfire. 
 

 

 

All this hindsight 2020 von was a terrible pick - I told you so - stuff is bologna because of this right here

 

before injury he was a monster and everyone loved him - solid leader - the “burn it” video pumped everyone up 

 

now everyone is piling on him

 

its stupid 

[Mango]

59 minutes ago, 97bills said:

I hated the contract when we did it, that much money for a old player.. to many risk… 

The worst part of the contract is the restructure after the ACL tear. 
 

On March 13, 2023 we restructured a huge contract on an old pass rusher just after ACL surgery without seeing him practice. 
 

Without that restructure the Bills could have saved money by moving on after the season. 

[PBF81]

Just now, Mango said:

The worst part of the contract is the restructure after the ACL tear. 
 

On March 13, 2023 we restructured a huge contract on an old pass rusher just after ACL surgery without seeing him practice. 
 

Without that restructure the Bills could have saved money by moving on after the season. 

 

GMs should have to do press conferences too, periodically.  

 

 

[CNYfan]

I agree that BBB "swung for the fences" and it was cool until the injury.  

He hasn't been any use this year and it is unfortunate.   But at least they took a shot at it.  

Not making excuses for deplorable behavior but Mr. Miller is likely more frustrated than anyone.  

[Beck Water]

On 12/1/2023 at 10:53 PM, Scott7975 said:

This is a different situation than Watson IMO.  Chargers were actually filed against Miller.  While Watson was being sued, he had no criminal charges pending.

 

Exactly.  I believe the league stated at the time that they would not use the Exempt list without criminal charges...when those weren't forthcoming, it was left ot the team.  Watson stating that he would not play for the Texans again and the team keeping him inactive, allowed the NFL that luxury.  If it had come to a point where the team was OK, dress, you're up and Watson put his pads and his jersey on, would the NFL have decided that 20+ civil cases might be the equivalent of 1 criminal case?  We'll never know.

 

Miller had a warrant out for his arrest, turned himself in, and was released on bond.  Will the league place him on the Exempt list?

For those of us who don't do this for a living, steps in a criminal case are:

1) investigation - enough evidence exists for probable cause that a crime occurred

2) arrest warrant issued by judge.  Subject is arrested by LEO or turns themselves in.

3) Subject is charged with crime after a charging document ('indictment', 'complaint', or 'information' depending upon jurisdiction).  If the charges are felonies, a grand jury may be involved (this is required for federal charges)

4) arraignment - the initial court hearing where the defendant formally hears the charges, enters a plea, and future court dates are set

5) discovery - each side discloses evidence to the other

6) trial (may be preceded by plea bargaining and preliminary hearings)
(It's well known that the best way to get right info on the internet is to post wrong info, so, I'm certain if I've got it wrong, someone will correct me.)
7) Verdict (can go directly from Step 4 to Step 7 if defendent pleads guilty or Step 5 to Step 7 if, after seeing evidence, a plea bargain is agreed)

Miller has completed step 2.  A judge issued an arrest warrant, he turned himself in, and he was released on bond.

 

If Miller's case proceeds through Step 3 where he's charged with a crime of DV, I believe the league would put him on the Exempt list, because he is high profile and their publicized NFL/NFLPA Domestic Violence Policy would be loudly and widely criticized as a "paper tiger" applying only to the little guy, if they don't.

Previously, the NFL has not suspended players until after Step 7 has played out.  But, they have suspended players (Bills own Tyrel Dodson; Panthers/Cowboy's Greg Hardy for two examples) where a guilty plea to a misdemeanor (not involving DV) was made, or where the court case was actually dismissed.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

The worst part of the contract is the restructure after the ACL tear. 
 

On March 13, 2023 we restructured a huge contract on an old pass rusher just after ACL surgery without seeing him practice. 
 

Without that restructure the Bills could have saved money by moving on after the season. 

 

If they hadn't restructured, I don't believe they would have been able to make a number of the signings that have contributed this season so 🤷‍♂️

[Blackbeard]

36 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

There's the 911 call in which she spoke words, and the phone recording in which words were spoken, some in Von's voice.

And if she’s not present in the courtroom to authenticate the audio recording?  
 

Without her in court it’s a difficult case to win.  And likely won’t be pursued.  
 

now, the DA could issue her a subpoena to show. 

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Exactly.  I believe the league stated at the time that they would not use the Exempt list without criminal charges...when those weren't forthcoming, it was left ot the team.  Watson stating that he would not play for the Texans again and the team keeping him inactive, allowed the NFL that luxury.  If it had come to a point where the team was OK, dress, you're up and Watson put his pads and his jersey on, would the NFL have decided that 20+ civil cases might be the equivalent of 1 criminal case?  We'll never know.

 

Miller had a warrant out for his arrest, turned himself in, and was released on bond.  Will the league place him on the Exempt list?

For those of us who don't do this for a living, steps in a criminal case are:

1) investigation - enough evidence exists for probable cause that a crime occurred

2) arrest warrant issued by judge.  Subject is arrested by LEO or turns themselves in.

3) Subject is charged with crime after a charging document ('indictment', 'complaint', or 'information' depending upon jurisdiction).  If the charges are felonies, a grand jury may be involved (this is required for federal charges)

4) arraignment - the initial court hearing where the defendant formally hears the charges, enters a plea, and future court dates are set

5) discovery - each side discloses evidence to the other

6) trial (may be preceded by plea bargaining and preliminary hearings)
(It's well known that the best way to get right info on the internet is to post wrong info, so, I'm certain if I've got it wrong, someone will correct me.)
7) Verdict (can go directly from Step 4 to Step 7 if defendent pleads guilty or Step 5 to Step 7 if, after seeing evidence, a plea bargain is agreed)

Miller has completed step 2.  A judge issued an arrest warrant, he turned himself in, and he was released on bond.

 

If Miller's case proceeds through Step 3 where he's charged with a crime of DV, I believe the league would put him on the Exempt list, because he is high profile and their publicized NFL/NFLPA Domestic Violence Policy would be loudly and widely criticized as a "paper tiger" applying only to the little guy, if they don't.

Previously, the NFL has not suspended players until after Step 7 has played out.  But, they have suspended players (Bills own Tyrel Dodson; Panthers/Cowboy's Greg Hardy for two examples) where a guilty plea to a misdemeanor (not involving DV) was made, or where the court case was actually dismissed.

 

 

 

If they hadn't restructured, I don't believe they would have been able to make a number of the signings that have contributed this season so 🤷‍♂️

I’ve been saying for a while the Bills have been kicking the van down the road for too long. Every year they keep doing this they set themselves up for a bigger reset year. 
 

We’re one of the oldest and most expensive teams in the league. Those two things don’t often pair well together. 

[Beck Water]

On 12/1/2023 at 4:14 PM, Bill from NYC said:

Was that a jury verdict or did he cop? My guess is that he was allowed to take a plea.

 

[my example of a case where a guy got off 1st degree murder using a "consensual sexy times gone wrong" defense for tying his wife up with duct tape and setting the garage where she was tied up on fire)   Jury verdict.  He was tried for 1st degree murder, but in some manner that allowed the jury to find him "not guilty" of the highest charges but guilty of the lesser (this goes way beyond my level of legal understanding).

My point here was that even if there's evidence that Von pushed her, pulled her hair out, and choked her, there's always the "this was a consensual BDSM scene gone too far" defense.  If a jury bought it for a woman viciously bound with duct tape including across her mouth then found in a burning garage, they'll buy it here from a handsome personable "nice fella" like Von.

 

On 12/1/2023 at 4:14 PM, Bill from NYC said:

The chances of Von doing time are slim to none, but in his case it will likely cost him a cool million or more. Then, it will depend on what Mr. Pegula/the NFL wants to do. 

 

Miller's salary this season is league minimum.  So his game check is $72,000.  He would lose a maximum of $360,000 if he's suspended after the bye.

(plus playoff $$ if we get there).  But the league doesn't usually suspend quickly.  Miller will be paid if he's placed on the "Exempt" list, and Bills roster replacement.

 

If he's suspended the minimum 6 games under the league's DV policy, his salary next season is $17.145M or $0.925M per game plus, pro-rated signing and restructure bonuses of $6.37M or $.354M per game.  So he would lose $7.67M in salary and bonuses.

My expectation is that the DA will not charge Miller with DV, because if the alleged victim is not cooperating, it opens the case to the "consensual sexy times gone awry" defense, so why even bother? 

 

So my prediction is Miller will not go on the Exempt list. 

The league may still suspend him, but that would place the Bills in a tough spot because they can't operate with his cap space until the suspension is made and the inevitable appeals grind through.  Which, I believe, historically happens right before the first games get played.

Total suckage for Bills and Bills fans, IMO.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Beck Water

[Rigotz]

27 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

GMs should have to do press conferences too, periodically.  

 

 

They do several per year, including Beane.

 

You’ve really never seen one?

[BuffaloBillyG]

48 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Let’s not pretend that it wasn’t working at the time. We were top five in pass rush, when he got hurt, we went to mid-twenties. We all knew the risks involved. We just so happened to get the worst case scenario.  Most believed where we were, and what we needed the risk was warranted. 
 

It’s tough, but we took a swing. I’d rather have a team with that mindset than what we had for the 20 year drought. This one just happened to backfire. 
 

 

 

One other thing that I don't think gets talked about enough with Von and his contract. It's the value that having a pass rusher with his knowledge on the roster and how he did take the time and effort to help the young pass rusher we have now.

 

3 out of 4 of the young gun pass rushers attended his pass rush camp as well. Those players? Groot, AJE and Big Ed. One had a "prior commitment" and didn't make it. That was Boogie. I think it's fair to ask if Von didn't come would we be seeing the production from the 3 we young guys? I really don't think so.

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

And if she’s not present in the courtroom to authenticate the audio recording? 

 

I believe that would fall under the part of my post you deleted in your response:

"But, if your basic point is that prosecutors rarely pursue a case without the alleged victim's cooperation, you're right.  It's so much harder to win, so especially if it's minor injuries they tend to let it drop."

 

11 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

Without her in court it’s a difficult case to win.  And likely won’t be pursued. 

 

Exactly.  See, we agree.

 

11 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

now, the DA could issue her a subpoena to show. 

 

Von has more than enough money to send her on a nice vacation out of the country, incognita, so that she "disappears" like the alleged victim in Greg Hardy's case did.

 

[PBF81]

Just now, Rigotz said:

They do several per year, including Beane.

 

You’ve really never seen one?

 

They typicall do them during the offseason or at the end of the season in "wrap-up."  

 

I should have been more specific and said every few weeks or so to answer some of the questions that get brushed aside by coaching pressers.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

They do several per year, including Beane.

 

You’ve really never seen one?

 

BTW, I don't typically watch pressers unless they're linked somewhere.  I also read very little of what other people/journalists think.  I do my own homework pretty much top to bottom.  

 

Did Beane get asked a question about Miller's contract sometime recently?  
 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

32 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

GMs should have to do press conferences too, periodically.  

 

 

Traditionally, Beane does his pressers at very specific times. There's usually 2 or 3 he does in the lead up to the draft. Normally he will have a small one after each day of the draft to talk about that days selections. He'll normally have one more before TC. Then typically, he does one right after the trade deadline. 

 

Next time we see him is normally 2-3 days after the season ends. Then the cycle starts again. I do understand wanting to hear from the teams GM right now, but all he would be able to say is that they are aware of the situation and there is an investigation. Anything else would likely get a "Well, I respect the question but...." type answers and he needs to be careful with what the team says right now as well.