8th late-game defensive meltdown this season

[Matt_In_NH]

IMO the injuries are blown out of proportion and are more an excuse than anything.   The late game ability of seemingly any offense to go through this defense like butter is a big problem.

 

Daquan Jones has been mostly replaced by Linval Joseph.  Jones is better but Joseph fills the gap way better than Poona ford

Tre White has been replaced by Rasul Douglass, this might be an upgrade.

Milano is a tremendous loss but a SuperBowl caliber team should be able to overcome the loss of their top LB.

[Drew21PA]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:37 AM, Johnnycage46 said:

It's pretty disgusting.  This year we are essentially the Chargers.  Every year I look at the Chargers with Herbert and can't believe they are a .500ish team.  Then you see their games and you see their coach and it all makes sense.  We are Chargers East this year.  Allen has eye-popping stats and we're .500.  Sucks.

Perfect sunmary

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

I am talking about ends of games. The defense made precisely zero stops vs the Jets in the last quarter and allowed them to convert a fourth on their final possession to bleed clock, preventing the Bills from trying for a TD in regulation. Allen and ST were bad, but the defense made precisely zero plays in the final quarter too. 

I think you’re putting to much blame in one place. For example the Jets game the Bills O scored only 3 points in the second half.. That’s just not good enough.. at worse it was special teams, but really it was a full team loss as all 3 phases had major breakdowns. 

[T master]

20 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

Are you happy he chose to kneel with 20 seconds left in regulation with an elite QB rather than try to win the game? Or that he burned an extra timeout to let the Eagles regroup and take their time to take the 58 yard field goal to tie it and take us down to 1 time out? Or that we went to a completely soft prevent zone to let them easily catch any short pass they wanted with more than enough time on the clock to drive right down the field without resistance or doing it again in OT? 

 

Do we also need to go back to his entire history of late game postseason gaffes or even just the games from this year? 

 

Look at some of the teams that are in line to make the playoffs who have a QB nowhere close to Josh. This is embarrassing that all McD's been able to do with this team is go .500 and needing a miracle to make the playoffs now. 

 

All of that is completely irrelevant if the plays i talked about are executed . If the catches are made & the kicks are also made & those points are on the board  

 

BILLS WIN . 

 

Every year is different, look at Elway's career how long did it take him to get back to a SB & then to finally win one ? Look at Marino & Kelly & some of the really great teams they were on so just because you have a great QB in place doesn't mean you should go to or win a SB .

 

Being a Bills fan you should know that better than most .

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:29 AM, YodaMan79 said:

The team need a different philosophical approach/direction.  Since 13 seconds, it's been steady decline, that's now full on accelerating. 

Yup I believe this team carry’s around McD late game blunders . McD even makes decisions based on those blunders in other blunder games. The players have taken McD mindset and are weak minded just like the Coach . We need a strong leader to move on from all these horrible loses and to be honest we need to let some players go that’s been around for most if not all these games . Morse, Poyer, Hyde & a few others have to be released this coming offseason along with McD getting fired. 
 

 

This team needs a new direction and a mini reset to the roster . McBeane has held onto older vets a little too long we need to get younger and we also need a identity not just a physical one but a mental one as well. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

I think you’re putting to much blame in one place. For example the Jets game the Bills O scored only 3 points in the second half.. That’s just not good enough.. at worse it was special teams, but really it was a full team loss as all 3 phases had major breakdowns. 

I'm talking about 8 games in total, not just one. In this one particular game, along with the offensive and ST failures, the defense failed to get a stop either in the fourth, which is part of a much broader season-long trend.  

[Dopey]

On 11/29/2023 at 3:50 PM, Bruffalo said:

"scoring rushing TDs at an unmatched rate" is what I said that you conveniently ignored.

 

He's scored more touchdowns than anyone. You'd have a point if that wasn't the case. The pick was costly, then we marched down the field and took the lead again.  Know what was more costly? The defense failing to get two stops in a row to end the game.

 

 

 

Yep, missed this. My bad. not ignored, just missed it. IMO, my point still stands. You can't lead the league in turnovers and not take some of the blame. A 7-5 record vs a 6-6 record makes a ton of difference right now. Josh losing the Jets game by himself has hurts our playoff chances. Yet folks here point to the NE loss or Denver. Why? It's a way to forget Josh lost a game all on his own. How did the "unmatched rushing td rate" help then? Proves my point. You can't lead the league in turnovers and just skate from responsibility. That Jets loss could cost us a playoff berth. And it didn't have to be. Four turnovers, when "only" three turnovers would have won us that game. You get the point.

This is not about absolving the rest of the team. It's about deserved criticism for Josh and his propensity to give the ball to the opposing team. It's that simple. 

 

I wrote: "this failure is a team effort, Josh included". Josh gets all the excuses. 8 games in a row with a pick. Can't keep doing that. 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

Josh losing the Jets game by himself has hurts our playoff chances. Yet folks here point to the NE loss or Denver. Why? It's a way to forget Josh lost a game all on his own.

 

No. It's because Josh is not replaceable. He's our QB for the next decade. If his poor play single handedly loses us just one game a year that is a really really good outcome.

 

McDermott on the other hand is easily replaceable. And he was the biggest reason for several of our losses this year.

 

Trying to blame Josh for this disappointing season isn't problem solving, it's just whining. He totally sucked in that Jets game, it happens. I don't just whine about McDermott for fun. I want him replaced.

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by HappyDays

[Dopey]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:54 PM, HappyDays said:

 

No. It's because Josh is not replaceable. He's our QB for the next decade. If his poor play single handedly loses us just one game a year that is a really really good outcome.

 

McDermott on the other hand is easily replaceable. And he was the biggest reason for several of our losses this year.

 

Trying to blame Josh for this disappointing season isn't problem solving, it's just whining. He totally sucked in that Jets game, it happens. I don't just whine about McDermott for fun. I want him replaced.

 

That first paragraph was just…wow!

I don’t whine about Josh for fun. What kinda crap is this? I’m not blaming Josh only. I did point out most failures were team failures. Including Josh. There’s even a short on YouTube titled “Josh’s weekly interception’. I’m pointing out that he’s excused too much here. How you can say it’s a good outcome for the season that Josh “only lost one game” ? Perfect example of sweeping things under the rug or excuses for him. That loss is crucial to playoff standings. And Josh lost that crucial game all in his own. 

[billsfan89]

This is really nit picking on the defense. The defense was not the reason the team lost the Jags, Denver or Jets games. The only reason the Bills had chances in those games was because of the defense. The Bengals game was also not on the defense solely. The defense gave up 3 points in the second half of that game the offense only scored 11 points in the second half. The defense gave the offense a chance in that second half. 
 

The Pats and Eagles losses (although the defense did force a 59 yard field goal in bad weather in the Eagles game) you can pin on the defense. But the defense is not the reason for most of these losses or closer victories. Just stop with this nonsense.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, billsfan89 said:

This is really nit picking on the defense. The defense was not the reason the team lost the Jags, Denver or Jets games. The only reason the Bills had chances in those games was because of the defense. The Bengals game was also not on the defense solely. The defense gave up 3 points in the second half of that game the offense only scored 11 points in the second half. The defense gave the offense a chance in that second half. 
 

The Pats and Eagles losses (although the defense did force a 59 yard field goal in bad weather in the Eagles game) you can pin on the defense. But the defense is not the reason for most of these losses or closer victories. Just stop with this nonsense.

Nit-picking? There is SO much parity in the NFL and so many close games across the league. How a team performs late game relative to its opponent can easily be the difference between 11-6 and 7-10.  It is inarguable that the Bills' defense is terrible late. Inarguable. Their defense is last or near last in EPA and DVOA in the fourth quarter this season.

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Nit-picking? There is SO much parity in the NFL and so many close games across the league. How a team performs late game relative to its opponent can easily be the difference between 11-6 and 7-10.  It is inarguable that the Bills' defense is terrible late. Inarguable. Their defense is last or near last in EPA and DVOA in the fourth quarter this season.

You also have to look at context in the NFL as unlike baseball games happen in context. The defense in many games was worn down by losing a time of possession battle due to an under performing offensive unit. 
 

You are holding almost calls and games they won holding the opponent under 20 points against them. 

[Dopey]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:18 AM, dave mcbride said:

I am talking about ends of games. The defense made precisely zero stops vs the Jets in the last quarter and allowed them to convert a fourth on their final possession to bleed clock, preventing the Bills from trying for a TD in regulation. Allen and ST were bad, but the defense made precisely zero plays in the final quarter too. 

Wrong. The beginning of the 4th starts with us making the Jets punt it away with a sack on 3rd down. If I remember correctly, the Jets had all of 6 points with 5 minutes left...in regulation. And that was with Josh giving the ball to them all game along. With 9:44 left in the 4th Allen throws a pick leading to the incredible catch by Wilson for a TD. No problem. We have the incredible Josh Allen. We'll come back and win this one. Why? We have Allen. Well, the VERY NEXT PLAY, Josh fumbles to ball over to the Jets AT OUR 25 yd line. Yet, our defense holds them to 3 points. 3 points. I guess the defense has to cover for Josh on every mistake or it's on them. OK.

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Wrong. The beginning of the 4th starts with us making the Jets punt it away with a sack on 3rd down. If I remember correctly, the Jets had all of 6 points with 5 minutes left...in regulation. And that was with Josh giving the ball to them all game along. With 9:44 left in the 4th Allen throws a pick leading to the incredible catch by Wilson for a TD. No problem. We have the incredible Josh Allen. We'll come back and win this one. Why? We have Allen. Well, the VERY NEXT PLAY, Josh fumbles to ball over to the Jets AT OUR 25 yd line. Yet, our defense holds them to 3 points. 3 points. I guess the defense has to cover for Josh on every mistake or it's on them. OK.

If you went to get litigious about it, yes, the Jets made a stop in the fourth: on the very first play when it was already third down. Jeez. 

And yes they held them to 3 points -- after converting a fourth down and not even really trying to get a first on the subsequent third down (they ran it up the middle on third and 12 and didn't attempt a pass on those three downs). They were content with bleeding clock.

Edited December 8, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

If you went WANT to get litigious about it, yes, the Jets BILLS made a stop in the fourth: on the very first play when it was already third down. Jeez. 

And yes they held them to 3 points -- after converting a fourth down and not even really trying to get a first on the subsequent third down (they ran it up the middle on third and 12 and didn't attempt a pass on those three downs). They were content with bleeding clock.

Come on, man. Settle down. Take a breath and read what you post before actually posting.

The defense was not the issue in the "Allen lost to the Jets" game. Allen gave them the ball TWICE in the 4th, but it's on the defense to keep bailing him out. And if they don't, they are to blame. Think about it. ONE less turnover and we win. Is it asking too much for Josh to turn it over JUST 3 times?!?!? 

[C.Biscuit97]

And EJ’s career would have been saved if the defense held the lead in London! (also, Derek Carr sucks 🥳)
 

1 - football is the ultimate team game. The offense sucked in the first halves of the Jets, Jags, Broncos, and Pats game. Besides the Jags, those are garbage offenses would have lost confidence if they feel behind and become one dimensional.

 

2 - we have a soft defense that I believe is like the Manning Colts. Get a lead, force teams to pass, and get pressure. The offense hasn’t given them that opportunity that much this year. When this team gets a double digit lead early in games, they become blowouts. 
 

3 - we need to apologize to Leslie. 

 

4 - our defense has kept us in a lot of games that could have been way worse like the Jags and Eagles game. I’m more disappointed in the unevenness of the offense since we haven’t had the injuries and have Allen. 

On 11/30/2023 at 7:18 AM, dave mcbride said:

I am talking about ends of games. The defense made precisely zero stops vs the Jets in the last quarter and allowed them to convert a fourth on their final possession to bleed clock, preventing the Bills from trying for a TD in regulation. Allen and ST were bad, but the defense made precisely zero plays in the final quarter too. 

They should have blown that team out in the first half. That was maybe the most broken team in history and we let them hang around. They should have stepped on their throats and they just played extremely lackadaisical.

[Freak-O]

If you count holding one of the best teams in the league to a 59 yard last minute field goal in the wind and rain as a “meltdown” then I don’t need to read anymore. 

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Freak-O said:

If you count holding one of the best teams in the league to a 59 yard last minute field goal in the wind and rain as a “meltdown” then I don’t need to read anymore. 

 

Let's skip that drive then.  The OT drive is worse.

[26TrapDraw]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:40 AM, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

From literal day 1….of this defense isn’t turning people over, they are t stoping teams. This scheme, this defense, this coach sucks. It’s been the defense from 2019 Texans loss on. It’s always the defense. Early on Poyer and Hyde were elite and making plays on the backend to turn people over constantly. And QB willing to take the easy throw will shred us. We never stop anyone legitimately. It’s turn overs or the other team has whatever they want on us every 3rd down. We used to be able to beat the bad QBs, now we can’t even do that. This coach needs to go tonight.

screw tonight how about today. Hey McJackass why don't you trust the process of cleaning out your office.

[Mikie2times]

 

 

4 minutes ago, Freak-O said:

If you count holding one of the best teams in the league to a 59 yard last minute field goal in the wind and rain as a “meltdown” then I don’t need to read anymore. 

What about 23 points in the 4th quarter and OT?