Poor man's Dick Jauron who lucked into the most physically gifted QB ever

[Billsfan1972]

21 minutes ago, mannc said:

The team McDermott took over was coached to a .500 record by Wrex Ryan. After adding Tre White, Dawkins and Milano, McDermott squeezed 1 more win out of them…what a legend.

And that is the narrative that McD fans ignore. Drives me crazy.

 

I don’t have any ill will towards McD, but the legend that some people attribute to him i don’t understand.

 

I just know he started Peterman and then doubled down the next year naming him the starter.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[HardyBoy]

Losman was arguably in a similar sphere as Allen physically and mentally...he was ruined by poor coaching, but don't let that get in the way of your narrative.

 

The culture on those teams sucked, and they would have never developed Allen into what he is today.

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

Losman was arguably in a similar sphere as Allen physically and mentally...he was ruined by poor coaching, but don't let that get in the way of your narrative.

 

The culture on those teams sucked, and they would have never developed Allen into what he is today.

I say they held Allen back the first two years and the first ten games this year.

 

I'll credit Daboll not McD.....  Thank you

 

[HardyBoy]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

I say they held Allen back the first two years and the first ten games this year.

 

I'll credit Daboll not McD.....  Thank you

 

 

Wow, you must have special powers of insight into knowing how things went down based on having no actual information...super powers

 

Anyway, that's off topic, my comment was on how Allen would have been ruined by those coaching staffs, in the same way they ruined JP Losman.

 

Losman would have been a top level qb if he played today, I'm sure of that.

[Billsfan1972]

47 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Wow, you must have special powers of insight into knowing how things went down based on having no actual information...super powers

 

Anyway, that's off topic, my comment was on how Allen would have been ruined by those coaching staffs, in the same way they ruined JP Losman.

 

Losman would have been a top level qb if he played today, I'm sure of that.

No better special powers then you.  If Losman was so good another team could have resurrected him.

 

No head coach goes one year, much less 48 games (first 3 years) withoit a 300 yard passing game.  McD accomplished this.  

 

So yes i think Allen could be further ahead.  Jmho

Edited November 30, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

23 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

Losman was arguably in a similar sphere as Allen physically and mentally...he was ruined by poor coaching, but don't let that get in the way of your narrative.

 

The culture on those teams sucked, and they would have never developed Allen into what he is today.

 

Eh... JP losman was a sack machine in college, and a sack machine in the pro's.  Kid didn't have it between the ears in the slightest.  Not to mention his arm was not nearly as strong as Allens.  

12 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Wow, you must have special powers of insight into knowing how things went down based on having no actual information...super powers

 

Anyway, that's off topic, my comment was on how Allen would have been ruined by those coaching staffs, in the same way they ruined JP Losman.

 

Losman would have been a top level qb if he played today, I'm sure of that.

 

I don't see it.  Holds the ball, takes sacks, not a rhythm passer, not particularly accurate.  

[HardyBoy]

31 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Eh... JP losman was a sack machine in college, and a sack machine in the pro's.  Kid didn't have it between the ears in the slightest.  Not to mention his arm was not nearly as strong as Allens.  

 

I don't see it.  Holds the ball, takes sacks, not a rhythm passer, not particularly accurate.  

 

Respectfully you don't know what you're talking about, and I didn't either until I read this article a few years back...JP Losman should have been elite, coaching broke him:

 

https://theathletic.com/2537042/2021/04/23/ex-bills-qb-j-p-losman-didnt-let-his-disappointing-nfl-career-define-him-instead-he-found-his-calling-at-clemson/

 

 

"

To some, Losman’s story is that of a first-round disappointment. The Bills drafted him No. 22 in the 2004 NFL Draft after Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger were already off the board.

 

“J.P. had the arm talent to rank with those guys and maybe even a little better arm talent than some of them,” former Bills offensive coordinator Tom Clements said. “He was probably the most athletic of that group, too … I don’t know how others had him ranked, but we felt strongly he was within that group of players.”

 

Yet seemingly from the start, Losman’s career was defined by adversity. He broke his leg in his first NFL training camp when he collided with Troy Vincent. That limited him to three games as a rookie.

 

The next year, he was benched after five games, only for the coaching staff to turn back to him later in the year. By Year 3, he was on his second head coach. He had three offensive coordinators in five seasons. The 2006 season, Losman’s third, was the only chance he got to start 16 games. He threw 19 touchdowns and 14 interceptions and had the 11th-best quarterback rating in the league. But the Bills drafted Trent Edwards in the third round the following year. Losman’s early-season injury in 2007 led the Bills to bench him in favor of Edwards. By midseason, ESPN reported that players weren’t pleased that Losman, a team captain, was on the bench, and they thought owner Ralph Wilson Jr. wanted Losman benched so that he couldn’t hit his performance bonuses.

 

“J.P. never had a fair chance,” former Bills vice president of player personnel John Guy said. “I’ll never forget his first day of practice and they were blitzing him every which way. I remember saying, ‘This isn’t the way to break in a quarterback.’”

 

"

 

... 

 

Matt Hasselbeck thought he knew what to expect when the Seahawks brought Losman in for a workout in 2010. Then 35, Hasselbeck had seen plenty of former first-round picks in the second acts of their careers. Because he didn’t know Losman, he perceived him through bits and pieces of what he had read and heard online.

 

“It was like, ‘Oh, that’s the guy that is tremendously talented, has the best arm you’ve ever seen, can run, has all the tools, but what’s his attitude like?’” Hasselbeck recalled. “That kind of stuff. That was sort of the vibe you got about him.”

 

After the workout, John Schneider and Pete Carroll said Losman’s workout was one of the most impressive quarterback workouts they’d ever seen. Hasselbeck wondered what his intangibles were like. Everyone knew he had the talent. Almost immediately after Losman signed, Hasselbeck regretted ever questioning his attitude or intangibles.

 

“I don’t even know if I could put a finger on just how much value he brought to our team,” Hasselbeck said. “I was 35 years old and whatever year that was for me playing. I’m older than my position coach, and my position coach is a very good coach. But I’m feeling like, wow, I’m really learning some valuable things from this third-string guy who I initially thought based on what I read on the internet, ‘This guy doesn’t have any intangibles that he’s bringing to the table.’ I couldn’t have been more wrong. He was incredible.”

 

...

That wasn’t the only time Hasselbeck thought Losman would be a coach. He shared that opinion around the building and with friends in the league. The more he was around Losman, the more he realized whatever perception he had before the arrival in Seattle was way off base.

 

“I think he’s been misunderstood,” Hasselbeck said. “He might just be smarter than everybody else. Sometimes when you’re smarter than the other people in the room it doesn’t work. If you have better ideas than the person in charge, and I don’t know who coached him prior, but it can feel threatening or like insubordination.”

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by HardyBoy

[CincyBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No better special powers then you.  If Losman was so good another team could have resurrected him.

 

No head coach goes one year, much less 48 games (first 3 years) withoit a 300 yard passing game.  McD accomplished this.  

 

So yes i think Allen could bebfurther ah3ad.  Jmho

Losman and Allen should not be named together as Allen is an exponentially better QB.

 

Say the Bills drafted Baker, Darnold or the Other Josh, today we would be speculating on who was going to replace the coach that replaced McD in 2020.

 

Meanwhile I suspect Allen on another team not named the Chargers would have a Super Bowl ring or two. Because the only other franchise in football that would have squandered Allen the way the Bills have so far wasted him would have been the Chargers.  Because defensive minded head coaches in the current NFL can't get O lines, offensive skill players and QB's right. The Bills success has been in spite of McD and because Allen is really that good.

 

 

[HardyBoy]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Losman and Allen should not be named together as Allen is an exponentially better QB.

 

Say the Bills drafted Baker, Darnold or the Other Josh, today we would be speculating on who was going to replace the coach that replaced McD in 2020.

 

Meanwhile I suspect Allen on another team not named the Chargers would have a Super Bowl ring or two. Because the only other franchise in football that would have squandered Allen the way the Bills have so far wasted him would have been the Chargers.  Because defensive minded head coaches in the current NFL can't get O lines, offensive skill players and QB's right. The Bills success has been in spite of McD and because Allen is really that good.

 

 

 

They developed Allen into the player he is today and Losman probably should be talked about in the same breath as Allen, and definitely as a cautionary tale.

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Losman and Allen should not be named together as Allen is an exponentially better QB.

 

Say the Bills drafted Baker, Darnold or the Other Josh, today we would be speculating on who was going to replace the coach that replaced McD in 2020.

 

Meanwhile I suspect Allen on another team not named the Chargers would have a Super Bowl ring or two. Because the only other franchise in football that would have squandered Allen the way the Bills have so far wasted him would have been the Chargers.  Because defensive minded head coaches in the current NFL can't get O lines, offensive skill players and QB's right. The Bills success has been in spite of McD and because Allen is really that good.

 

 

Regardless and we agree here, what drives me nuts is how the D has failed almost every time late game & OT along with McD's boneheaded decisions and miscues.

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

They developed Allen into the player he is today and Losman probably should be talked about in the same breath as Allen, and definitely as a cautionary tale.

Please tell us what Sean McDermott, the defensive back specialist, did to make Josh Allen what he is today…

[McBean]

5 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

They developed Allen into the player he is today and Losman probably should be talked about in the same breath as Allen, and definitely as a cautionary tale.

[HardyBoy]

1 minute ago, McBean said:

 

Read the article I shared...Allen is also the smartest person in most rooms. Those former Bills coaching staffs would have destroyed him just like they did Losman.

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

They developed Allen into the player he is today and Losman probably should be talked about in the same breath as Allen, and definitely as a cautionary tale.

First and foremost Allen developed himself into the player he is today.  I know this goes against the "gone Hollywood" narrative but the guy has made his own way to the top of the QB world.  It was Allen who chose not to give up and enroll in a community college when no D1 ofers were on the table;  it was Allen who made the smart choice of going to Wyoming; It was Allen who then made the choice to work out with Palmer.

 

Next, DaBoll gets a lot of credit for Allen becoming the QB he is today. You know who else should get more credit then Bean/McD for developing Allen his first two years? The people of Buffalo & Bills Mafia.  The atmosphere in Buffalo was perfect for a guy like Allen.  And he Buffalo community enthusiastically embraced the young QB which had to help him through those first 2 tough years.

 

When I look back at 2018 & 2019 it's hard for me to see how the Bills did much to develop Allen.  He was basically thrown to the wolves by Bean/McD. Fortunately between Allen and DaBoll he was able to float and then swim. 

 

*  He wasn't named the starter as a rookie and didn't get a lot of 1st team reps in training camp & the preseason games. Allen saw Peterman, the worst QB to start games in NFL history, get the nod over him.  How many guys would have lost confidence seeing that happen?  Then Petermann predictably sucked and Allen is thrust into the starting job week 2.

 

*  Of course Bean/McD not expecting their rookie to play much in year 1 eviscerate the offense as part of a rebuild.  Do you remember who Allen was playing with his rookie season?

 

*  In 2019 Bean/McD took the bargain basement path with their new QB.  Morse was a solid if not risky signing but no one is going to call Brown & Beasley splash offensive signings.

 

*  It wasn't until 2020 when Bean/McD FINALLY made a big time move to support Allen on the offense by signing Diggs.  But that was it until 2023 when they used a 1st round draft pick to take Kincaid.  ONE splash offensive FA signing/draft pick over Allen's first 5 seasons. ONE!

 

The narrative that the Bills organization developed Allen is just not supported by the evidence.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Regardless and we agree here, what drives me nuts is how the D has failed almost every time late game & OT along with McD's boneheaded decisions and miscues.

I think it's safe to say that the defensive shortcomings seen over the last four playoff seasons are now being seen in the regular season.

 

[HardyBoy]

27 minutes ago, mannc said:

Please tell us what Sean McDermott, the defensive back specialist, did to make Josh Allen what he is today…

 

13 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

First and foremost Allen developed himself into the player he is today.  I know this goes against the "gone Hollywood" narrative but the guy has made his own way to the top of the QB world.  It was Allen who chose not to give up and enroll in a community college when no D1 ofers were on the table;  it was Allen who made the smart choice of going to Wyoming; It was Allen who then made the choice to work out with Palmer.

 

Next, DaBoll gets a lot of credit for Allen becoming the QB he is today. You know who else should get more credit then Bean/McD for developing Allen his first two years? The people of Buffalo & Bills Mafia.  The atmosphere in Buffalo was perfect for a guy like Allen.  And he Buffalo community enthusiastically embraced the young QB which had to help him through those first 2 tough years.

 

When I look back at 2018 & 2019 it's hard for me to see how the Bills did much to develop Allen.  He was basically thrown to the wolves by Bean/McD. Fortunately between Allen and DaBoll he was able to float and then swim. 

 

*  He wasn't named the starter as a rookie and didn't get a lot of 1st team reps in training camp & the preseason games. Allen saw Peterman, the worst QB to start games in NFL history, get the nod over him.  How many guys would have lost confidence seeing that happen?  Then Petermann predictably sucked and Allen is thrust into the starting job week 2.

 

*  Of course Bean/McD not expecting their rookie to play much in year 1 eviscerate the offense as part of a rebuild.  Do you remember who Allen was playing with his rookie season?

 

*  In 2019 Bean/McD took the bargain basement path with their new QB.  Morse was a solid if not risky signing but no one is going to call Brown & Beasley splash offensive signings.

 

*  It wasn't until 2020 when Bean/McD FINALLY made a big time move to support Allen on the offense by signing Diggs.  But that was it until 2023 when they used a 1st round draft pick to take Kincaid.  ONE splash offensive FA signing/draft pick over Allen's first 5 seasons. ONE!

 

The narrative that the Bills organization developed Allen is just not supported by the evidence.

 

 

I think it's safe to say that the defensive shortcomings seen over the last four playoff seasons are now being seen in the regular season.

 

 

You mean the head coach that coordinates all the practice plans, and sets the expectations on the types of offensive formations they will highlight in a practice and coordinating with the defensive staff to make sure they are giving him the right looks defensively to reinforce the information he is learning from film and other preparation off the field

 

You guys sound super ignorant on what a head coach does...freaking Dunning Kruger convention

 

And Beasley was a huge signing, even at the time... he was the best slot receiver in football and was clearly being improperly utilized in Dallas...Brown turned out to be exactly the player they were hoping he would be...both of those signings were amazing at the time and looking back on it

[mannc]

1 minute ago, HardyBoy said:

 

 

You mean the head coach that coordinates all the practice plans, and sets the expectations on the types of offensive formations they will highlight in a practice and coordinating with the defensive staff to make sure they are giving him the right looks defensively to reinforce the information he is learning from film and other preparation off the field

 

You guys sound super ignorant on what a head coach does...freaking Dunning Kruger convention

 

And Beasley was a huge signing, even at the time... he was the best slot receiver in football and was clearly being improperly utilized in Dallas...Brown turned out to be exactly the player they were hoping he would be...both of those signings were amazing at the time and looking back on it

So McDermott took time off from coaching up Josh Allen to sign Beasley and Smoke Brown?

[HardyBoy]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

So McDermott took time off from coaching up Josh Allen to sign Beasley and Smoke Brown?

 

That was in response to what I quoted from CincyBillsFan, not your post

[foreboding]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:14 AM, gobills404 said:

Good lord almighty, NO they would not. We can criticize McDummy without pretending other bad coaches were good. 

Think this was a joke...

[somnus00]

McDermott makes more in a year than Jauron did in his whole tenure. So if anything, McD is a rich man's Jauron.

 

That said, not sure I agree, but I see the comparison.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

 

You mean the head coach that coordinates all the practice plans, and sets the expectations on the types of offensive formations they will highlight in a practice and coordinating with the defensive staff to make sure they are giving him the right looks defensively to reinforce the information he is learning from film and other preparation off the field

 

You guys sound super ignorant on what a head coach does...freaking Dunning Kruger convention

 

And Beasley was a huge signing, even at the time... he was the best slot receiver in football and was clearly being improperly utilized in Dallas...Brown turned out to be exactly the player they were hoping he would be...both of those signings were amazing at the time and looking back on it

Then he has failed miserably based on all the mistakes he makes game day.

 

He annointed Peterman the starting qb Allen's rookie season.  If Peterwas just awful instead of unplayable how long would have Allen sat?

 

Btw I look at CJ Stroud and wonder just how much McD would have impeaded him if he was the coach.  

 

I say if Allen was brought along like him he'd be further ahead.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Billsfan1972