Poor man's Dick Jauron who lucked into the most physically gifted QB ever

[colin]

if mcd is let go after this season (say we miss the playoffs, which is sadly quite likely) -- how does he compare to marvin lewis?

 

better record with miles more talent.  lost games due to horrible blunders.  both ran teams with huge discipline problems, the difference is lewis drafted and signed problem child talents who would fly off the handle here and there.  mcd goes for "character" but we commit painful penalties at a huge rate.

 

in 2020 it could be argued that maybe we didn't have the talent to hang w the big dogs (not sure that's true, but i could buy it), since then we haven't been out talented, just out coached and out played.

 

this guy is a dud and i'd like to see who on this board still buys in

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, colin said:

if mcd is let go after this season (say we miss the playoffs, which is sadly quite likely) -- how does he compare to marvin lewis?

 

better record with miles more talent.  lost games due to horrible blunders.  both ran teams with huge discipline problems, the difference is lewis drafted and signed problem child talents who would fly off the handle here and there.  mcd goes for "character" but we commit painful penalties at a huge rate.

 

in 2020 it could be argued that maybe we didn't have the talent to hang w the big dogs (not sure that's true, but i could buy it), since then we haven't been out talented, just out coached and out played.

 

this guy is a dud and i'd like to see who on this board still buys in

McD has wasted Allen....   no comparison 

[Mark Vader]

On 11/27/2023 at 4:52 AM, Brian Higgins hair said:

….Maybe, just maybe when you consistently miss on early round players like Basham, Elam, Epenesa, and destroy the cap by signing aging vets like Miller, Tre and Poyer, this is what happens.

‘McDermott holds a lot of res, but Beane is no GM god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

He's not John Butler either.

[C.Biscuit97]

20 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

McD has wasted Allen....   no comparison 

Again, this is where we go too far. We have had top 3 defenses for most of Allen’s career. This team has averaged 12 wins once Allen “developed.” Allen got the same OC his rookie year for 4 years which rarely happens. 
 

allen has made himself into a great player. But it’s BS to give McDermott/ the Bills any credit for that. 

21 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

He doesn't deserve credit for developing a raw asf QB?

 

Ppl just love to pick and choose to fit their narrative 

No. The guy who was neither 1st or 2nd team mountain west was always going to be a star. Clearly. 
 

and I’m fine with moving on from McDermott but as you said, it’s cesp not to give him any credit for helping Allen into the player he is.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Beane also wears some of this.

 

His personnel philosophy has been keep as much of the 2020 team together as possible. 
 

So it’s keep Hyde, Poyer, promote Gabe to #2, extend Oliver, extend Tre White, Dawkins, extend Milano, keep Morse.

 

That approach leads to an expensive team with age.

 

Beane has taken what little money he has and has jammed in veterans to supplement the roster. 

 

Other approaches would have been trading down in the draft and acquiring more picks and using that savings to go more aggressive at top flight talent, moving off McDermott last year, etc. The Von Miller contract has been a killer. 

 

I just think this version of the team, maxed out talent wise in 2020/2021, combined with this Coach, and we’re just hitting the ceiling. 
 

It’s gotten harder and harder to get everyone back, and the basis that the 2020 AFCCG team was 90% of the way there may have been faulty.  
 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Niagara Dude]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:42 PM, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Let's be honest...that's what McDermott is.

 

All the coaches we've criticized never had the talent McDermott has.

 

Put Allen on the Mike Mularkey 2004 Bills - that team possibly wins the Super Bowl. Put Allen on any Jauron teams that went 7-9 every year with Losman/Edwards - those teams make the playoffs annually. Doug Marrone's 2014 Bills that went 9-7 with a lights-out defense and Kyle Orton - that team goes deep into the playoffs. Rex Ryan took Mark Freaking Sanchez to the AFC Championship twice. What does he do with Allen?

 

Why does this guy continue to get credit for turning the team around when it's clearly a case of him simply getting a HOF QB by chance? How many games does his defense have to blow? How many more stupid timeouts? How many more?

No question, he is not a very good good at all.  Neither Poyer or Hyde both late round picks who did nothing before coming to Buffalo would still be in the league without McDermott and his old school soft zone defence

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

The Sabres still talk about development and learning, guys who “want to be here” and growing.

 

So when I hear us continue to harken back to 2017 and how McDermott changed the culture it’s past the expiration date. 
 

2020 showed us the value of getting another top flight WR in this offense. 
 

McDermott / Beane chose the balanced roster path and have devoted 55-60/45-40 resources to the defense to get after Pat Mahomes.

 

What if instead of DEs and Von Miller they made getting another #1 WR their first priority?

 

Especially when to this day we play PREVENT defense in key moments.

[DuckyBoys]

Jauron did more w less  Yeah it was a tough watch but he got the most from what he had 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 11/27/2023 at 8:55 AM, Shortchaz said:

I don’t have a completely fleshed out thought but it seems to me McDermott is: 

 

a rigid proceduralist; there’s only one right way to do things. Not creative or a trailblazer 
 

obsessed with being respected not with winning

 

a bit of a hard-on 

 

he’s limited and will live in the good to pretty good range but unlikely to sniff great. 
 

Insipid 

 

 

To me, he has always spoke like Doug Marrone.

 

He knows it all, has done it all, seen it all, knows what it looks like.

 

It’s that constipated/stern manner that grates on me. The ultra generic cliche responses to everything, the timeouts, the complimentary football, everything is top secret and he says nothing.

 

Where he is like Dick Jauron is that he knows his defensive system. He knows zone. And when it comes to these games he still has that same approach to play safe, keep plays in front of us. It just doesn’t work against these elite QBs because it’s death by 1000 paper cuts. 
 

 

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Again, this is where we go too far. We have had top 3 defenses for most of Allen’s career. This team has averaged 12 wins once Allen “developed.” Allen got the same OC his rookie year for 4 years which rarely happens. 
 

allen has made himself into a great player. But it’s BS to give McDermott/ the Bills any credit for that. 

No. The guy who was neither 1st or 2nd team mountain west was always going to be a star. Clearly. 
 

and I’m fine with moving on from McDermott but as you said, it’s cesp not to give him any credit for helping Allen into the player he is.

McD took a perfectly decent offense (Rex) and first three years was 31st, 29th and 24th in the league.  He did the impossible and not have a 300 yard passing game his first three years.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[JohnNord]

On 11/26/2023 at 10:53 PM, Billever76 said:

I've been saying this for 3 years and have been suspended here twice for voicing my opinion on this bumbling moron of a coach....the biggest issue with the Bills is and always has been McDermott 

Who suspended you and why would they suspend you for criticizing the coach?  Seems to be within the rules

[Billsfan1972]

Allen is all the difference.  

Edited November 28, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Beane also wears some of this.

 

His personnel philosophy has been keep as much of the 2020 team together as possible. 
 

So it’s keep Hyde, Poyer, promote Gabe to #2, extend Oliver, extend Tre White, Dawkins, extend Milano, keep Morse.

 

That approach leads to an expensive team with age.

 

Beane has taken what little money he has and has jammed in veterans to supplement the roster. 

 

Other approaches would have been trading down in the draft and acquiring more picks and using that savings to go more aggressive at top flight talent, moving off McDermott last year, etc. The Von Miller contract has been a killer. 

 

I just think this version of the team, maxed out talent wise in 2020/2021, combined with this Coach, and we’re just hitting the ceiling. 
 

It’s gotten harder and harder to get everyone back, and the basis that the 2020 AFCCG team was 90% of the way there may have been faulty.  
 

 

This is completely correct.  There was someone here to said that Beane was going to turn on McDermott to keep his job.  My response was that he can’t because he would also be incriminating his performance.  
 

As far as the moves you’ve mentioned, some worked out and some didn’t.   But you mentioned Von Miller… the reason they had to overpay for Von was because they repeatedly missed on the DE position both with veterans and high draft picks.  So they were forced to overpay for Von Miller.  The moves worked until he blew his ACL and now it will be an albatross to the cap.  
 

The other move that looks questionable was re-signing Knox and drafting Kincaid.  Kincaid looks like he will be great TE,  but Knox’s deal will hurt the team next year.

 

There seems to be a fallacy that the Bills roster is better than it actually is. 

[DrBob806]

7 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is completely correct.  There was someone here to said that Beane was going to turn on McDermott to keep his job.  My response was that he can’t because he would also be incriminating his performance.  
 

As far as the moves you’ve mentioned, some worked out and some didn’t.   But you mentioned Von Miller… the reason they had to overpay for Von was because they repeatedly missed on the DE position both with veterans and high draft picks.  So they were forced to overpay for Von Miller.  The moves worked until he blew his ACL and now it will be an albatross to the cap.  
 

The other move that looks questionable was re-signing Knox and drafting Kincaid.  Kincaid looks like he will be great TE,  but Knox’s deal will hurt the team next year.

 

There seems to be a fallacy that the Bills roster is better than it actually is. 

That's the thing in the salary cap era. The Bills aren't alone in chasing an aged vet, overpaying because they think they're close to the pinnacle.

 

Where the Bills erred I think, was basically standing pat while Miami & the NYJets snuck up on 'em in the division. Yeah, maybe Rodgers would have gotten killed later in the year by that woeful O-line, but they WENT for it like the Bills did with Von.

 

 

[Steve Billieve]

Gosh, just imagine what they could have acheived with Tyrod Taylor

[Bill from NYC]

On 11/27/2023 at 12:02 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

His GM masterfully pulled a "Draft Day" to get Josh Allen. The QB 90% of Bills fans called "the wrong Josh."😂  

True but we were forced into this position because McDermott did not want Mahomes. Instead he wanted a 1st round corner to play in a zone. 

 

My how quickly we forget.

 

PS: I sure as hell wasn't one of the "wrong Josh" folks.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Bill from NYC

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Giving McD credit for this teams turnaround would be like giving credit to the rooster for the sun coming up

[Mr. WEO]

On 11/28/2023 at 2:15 PM, Mark80 said:

 

I mean, you just doubled down on my point, thanks.  Tyrod was horrible.  Horrible every where he has played.  Yet, somehow we made the playoffs with him and an "incredibly mediocre team."  Tyrod's horrendous, "I'm afraid to throw to anyone who isn't open by 5 yards mentality" lost that game for us vs the Jags more than anything.

 

 

It wasn't a good team that was gifted a playoff spot by a spoiler.  HE was taken down by the combo of Doug Marrone and Blake Bortles (87 yards passing). 

 

Since then , with a far superior roster, 4 bad playoff exits in a row, one AFCC game (lost).

[Billsfan1972]

On 11/28/2023 at 2:15 PM, Mark80 said:

 

I mean, you just doubled down on my point, thanks.  Tyrod was horrible.  Horrible every where he has played.  Yet, somehow we made the playoffs with him and an "incredibly mediocre team."  Tyrod's horrendous, "I'm afraid to throw to anyone who isn't open by 5 yards mentality" lost that game for us vs the Jags more than anything.

Actually he had very decent stats with Rex as HC, but that is conveniently forgotten here (as was the record) as he was hated and McD considered the saviour.

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Actually he had very decent stats with Rex as HC, but that is conveniently forgotten here (as was the record) as he was hated and McD considered the saviour.

The team McDermott took over was coached to a .500 record by Wrex Ryan. After adding Tre White, Dawkins and Milano, McDermott squeezed 1 more win out of them…what a legend.