Has Josh Allen reached his ceiling?

[AlfaBill]

I think this thread and this poster have reached their ceiling. And it’s about 3’ high. 
I lose faith in fans intelligence when I read garbage like this. It’s either a  troll job and a poor one at that or a dumb dumbs view. Either way it blows 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Everybody loves the Mahomes comparison this year who clearly isn't having a great year and nobody would say for a second that he is.

 

Mahomes is playing as well as usual IMO. But having a lesser supporting cast makes him feel like he has to press more than usual, and the opportunities just aren't there for him. For the first time in his career he's playing with an offensive supporting cast that is about equal to Allen's supporting cast. Luckily for him his defense is one of the best the league has seen in the past few years. Figures.

 

Allen for my money is having the best season of his career if you contextualize it properly. Diggs isn't as special as he has been (why is no one talking about this?), Davis has somehow been even worse than usual and would not even start on many teams, Knox was having his worst season since he was a rookie before going on IR. Our defense and special teams have been worse than ever in Allen's career which puts the offense in bad situations. Not that his supporting cast is awful - Diggs is still very good, Kincaid has been ramping up, and our running game is the best it's been in the Josh Allen era when we actually commit to it. But pretty much our entire offense this years starts and ends with Allen's right arm.

 

Look at the leaders in TDs per game this year:

 

1) Miami

2) Dallas

3) Detroit/San Fran (tied)

5) Baltimore/Buffalo (tied)

 

Only one of those teams is being run pretty much exclusively through its QB - with respect to Dak Prescott and Lamar Jackson who are both having very good seasons, but both also have teams that can win in multiple ways. The Bills can only win in one way. It is not a coincidence that Allen is leading the NFL in total TDs per game and ranks high in turnovers per game. That's a sign of a team that needs its QB to be the engine that drives everything all the time, and that's just not a sustainable way to win games consistently.

 

Allen will reach his ceiling as a player when his supporting cast reaches its ceiling. He's a better QB now than he was in 2020 in pretty much every way that we measure QB play but his supporting cast is worse. I'm regularly shocked by the theories I see on here about Allen's mental state based on things like his demeanor in press conferences and 5 second shots of him on the bench in broadcast footage. It's honestly a total joke.

[RyanC883]

with a competent OC, No.  

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

He doesn’t have the mental capacities of Brady or Mahomes.

 

Brady's career was over after his final year in New England. That was the narrative. Then he went to the best team in the NFL at the time and suddenly had a resurgence. Yes even the GOAT needed several great players around him to look his best.

 

Allen has become a victim of his own success. He has turned JAGs like Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox and Khalil Shakir into productive NFL pass catchers, and as a result people think his supporting cast is better than it really is. I see people praising O'Cyrus Torrence as having a great rookie season, when in reality he's been giving up pressures left and right over the past month and the OL as a whole has dropped off quite a bit after a good start. Allen's physical and mental abilities make everything look so much better than it is.

[Billever76]

Josh ceiling is multiple superbowls...but our team Building philosophy has kinda dampened that....have to build the offense first not the defense

[AZSanta]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

tell us what’s unique about your premise?

Its not a premise its an opinion. I'm interested in other Bills fans opinions on this topic

[AZSanta]

2 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

I think this thread and this poster have reached their ceiling. And it’s about 3’ high. 
I lose faith in fans intelligence when I read garbage like this. It’s either a  troll job and a poor one at that or a dumb dumbs view. Either way it blows 

Hey Einstein. I have an opinion about our Quarterback. I'm asking for others opinions. If you are offended by my opinion then you need to grow up a little bit. 

[Lfod]

I would hope that Josh would never stop in the pursuit of mastering his craft. Looking at this season makes me think Josh/Dorsey may have settled and teams figured them out. 

[Buffalo03]

7 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Absolutely reached his ceiling athletically 2 years ago and is now in decline. He can continue to play at a high level if he relies less on his athleticism and is able to develop his game mentally. But he got to this point by having a strong arm and scrambling ability and not needing to have good timing and good play recognition so it would be re-learning how to do things.

 

Cam Newton could not do it. As soon as he declined athletically he was done. Michael Vick was able to somewhat. He became more of a pocket passer after prison. Big Ben was never the fastest guy but once he lost his athleticism he was basically a statue out there but he was so big and hard to bring down that he was able to take some hits and still deliver the ball. Could go either way but yes I think Josh has already peaked and it will be a completely different Josh than what we are used to by the end of his contract. If he re-signs we will be signing a completely different guy at that point.

😂

[Buffalo03]

7 hours ago, AZSanta said:

Well said. Thanks for your response. 

Not well said. Allen has not declined. He's thrown some picks this season but he has not declined athletically or really in his play other than a few too many picks. Please tell me how he has declined athletically?

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Brady's career was over after his final year in New England. That was the narrative. Then he went to the best team in the NFL at the time and suddenly had a resurgence. Yes even the GOAT needed several great players around him to look his best.

 

Allen has become a victim of his own success. He has turned JAGs like Gabe Davis and Dawson Knox and Khalil Shakir into productive NFL pass catchers, and as a result people think his supporting cast is better than it really is. I see people praising O'Cyrus Torrence as having a great rookie season, when in reality he's been giving up pressures left and right over the past month and the OL as a whole has dropped off quite a bit after a good start. Allen's physical and mental abilities make everything look so much better than it is.

Dunk on these fools

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, AZSanta said:

Its not a premise its an opinion. I'm interested in other Bills fans opinions on this topic

review every thread started the week after the Broncos loss.  Plenty on this very topic.  

[Malazan]

Ya'll ruined an amazing opportunity to have every reply in this thread just be "Yes" and mess with the OP's head. 

[Billsfanatixs]

23 hours ago, AZSanta said:

I have been an Allen supporter since he was drafted. I felt he was a perfect fit for the city. He is in year 6 of his career and has put up fairly consistent stats the last 3 years. Have we seen his best football or can he be better? By better I mean 5000+ passing yards and 50+ total tds. I personally believe he has hit his ceiling. I think he is what he is and I think we can win a Super Bowl with him playing at this level. I am just curios what others opinions are as to what they expect from him the rest of his career.

I have a feeling this might not age well. We shall see 

[beerme1]

Hold my beer.

[Mikie2times]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes is playing as well as usual IMO. But having a lesser supporting cast makes him feel like he has to press more than usual, and the opportunities just aren't there for him. For the first time in his career he's playing with an offensive supporting cast that is about equal to Allen's supporting cast. Luckily for him his defense is one of the best the league has seen in the past few years. Figures.

 

Allen for my money is having the best season of his career if you contextualize it properly. Diggs isn't as special as he has been (why is no one talking about this?), Davis has somehow been even worse than usual and would not even start on many teams, Knox was having his worst season since he was a rookie before going on IR. Our defense and special teams have been worse than ever in Allen's career which puts the offense in bad situations. Not that his supporting cast is awful - Diggs is still very good, Kincaid has been ramping up, and our running game is the best it's been in the Josh Allen era when we actually commit to it. But pretty much our entire offense this years starts and ends with Allen's right arm.

 

Look at the leaders in TDs per game this year:

 

1) Miami

2) Dallas

3) Detroit/San Fran (tied)

5) Baltimore/Buffalo (tied)

 

Only one of those teams is being run pretty much exclusively through its QB - with respect to Dak Prescott and Lamar Jackson who are both having very good seasons, but both also have teams that can win in multiple ways. The Bills can only win in one way. It is not a coincidence that Allen is leading the NFL in total TDs per game and ranks high in turnovers per game. That's a sign of a team that needs its QB to be the engine that drives everything all the time, and that's just not a sustainable way to win games consistently.

 

Allen will reach his ceiling as a player when his supporting cast reaches its ceiling. He's a better QB now than he was in 2020 in pretty much every way that we measure QB play but his supporting cast is worse. I'm regularly shocked by the theories I see on here about Allen's mental state based on things like his demeanor in press conferences and 5 second shots of him on the bench in broadcast footage. It's honestly a total joke.

I’m curious where people come to the conclusion that Mahomes had much better WR’s last year. The only guy not on this years roster is Smith-Schuster. Who by your definition is a Jag. All his 125 yards this season. Further, why didn’t Josh get signaled out as having a top defense the last several years like it seems Mahomes does every time his name is brought up.  
 

Like everything else , people talk about whatever it is that fits the point of view they have. Stats are available for any angle you want on this conversation depending on how you want to put context around it (as you say). The reality is anybody who thinks they know 100% on Allen is completely full of it. If anything, he is everything discussed at once. But few people can comprehend such a perspective. You’re among the few capable of such a thing even if I don’t typically agree.

[ganesh]

On 11/23/2023 at 8:34 AM, PatsFanNH said:

Omg I am not even a Bills fan but GOD NO! He is still young and just entered his prime and he IMO doesn’t have an elite O around him. You give him 2 good WR, a good TE and he could break records. 
 

Now if you want championships, he needs a consistent Defense, a defense that can bail him out when he is just having a bad game. 

OR a defense that needs to shut down that one final drive after he has given the team the lead

[ROCBillsBeliever]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:32 PM, AZSanta said:

I have been an Allen supporter since he was drafted. I felt he was a perfect fit for the city. He is in year 6 of his career and has put up fairly consistent stats the last 3 years. Have we seen his best football or can he be better? By better I mean 5000+ passing yards and 50+ total tds. I personally believe he has hit his ceiling. I think he is what he is and I think we can win a Super Bowl with him playing at this level. I am just curios what others opinions are as to what they expect from him the rest of his career.

 

Have posts like this one reached their floor?

 

🤢

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

OR a defense that needs to shut down that one final drive after he has given the team the lead

That was my point as well. Those were not his best games, heck he played meh at best against NE and Denver BUT he played well enough to get the lead late. 

[BarleyNY]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:32 PM, AZSanta said:

I have been an Allen supporter since he was drafted. I felt he was a perfect fit for the city. He is in year 6 of his career and has put up fairly consistent stats the last 3 years. Have we seen his best football or can he be better? By better I mean 5000+ passing yards and 50+ total tds. I personally believe he has hit his ceiling. I think he is what he is and I think we can win a Super Bowl with him playing at this level. I am just curios what others opinions are as to what they expect from him the rest of his career.

 

I’m not sure improved stats are the best indicator as I think that would mostly come from a better supporting cast, not improvement beyond the best we’ve seen from him. That said, he could become more consistent, especially when defenses test his patience. That’s his avenue for improvement IMO.