Has Tyrel Dodson really showed that much improvement? Currently PFF's only 90+ backer.

[BuffaloBill]

15 hours ago, wppete said:

99 problems

 

 

99 problems on the wall…. 99 problems on the wall… take one down, pass it around ….. 98 problems on the wall….

[Billzgobowlin]

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Dodson's looked excellent to me on occasion, and the occasions keep increasing.   He still is out of position some of the time, but he's learning.  That was a huge hole, and he's filling nicely. 

I think back to the end of the summer, when the consensus here was that the Bills had no one at middle linebacker.  People here talked about Bernard and Dodson like two guys who had no business in the NFL.  My conclusion is that McDermott and Beane knew something about those guys that most of us didn't.  That's why they were on the roster, and that's why Beane didn't go after anyone else.  

 

Both guys still need more time on the field, and as someone said, Williams isn't embarrassing himself out there, either.  All three are growing into solid contributors.  

 

Gotta give Beane and McDermott credit.  

 

 

I think guys like that need to be given a chance to figure it out on Sundays.  Generally that's not an option when you have a perennial playoff team but it looks like the talent for the most part is there.

[Kaenon]

Y'all didn't believe me when I talked him up preseason.

[Tim Tindale]

16 hours ago, zow2 said:

As is often the case, the freak out factor about a player on this board is beyond actual reality on the field.  

 

I don’t know - the difference between an above average defense and elite is Matt Milano. Milano of the last three years is one of the most disruptive linebackers I’ve ever seen - in both the run and pass game, which is unique. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

TD25 had himself a Game!

https://x.com/erikjturner/status/1727131587954024865?s=61

Yea, I'm not sure I've ever seen Dodson play so fast. He was a legitimate animal out there. Maybe WLB better suited him all along? 

[OutOfBubbleGum]

He's good but they were playing the Jets.

[34-78-83]

30 minutes ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

He's good but they were playing the Jets.

It's all season that folks, and PFF are talking about.

 

He's been quite a bit better than expected, while certainly still getting caught out of position at times in coverage (PFF doesn't really grade coverage well on a consistent basis).

 

And then....there's TB. Almost none of us thought he'd be this good. Great instincts... Wow.

[C.Biscuit97]

I thought he’s been solid but PFF is just needs guessing at what the play call/ responsibilities on a play is. I would bet a ton of money that the bills coaches have a much lower grade. 
 

but he has been a solid player, one that hopefully doesn’t start next year and will be good depth. As long as the d line plays well, LBs can almost be interchangeable behind them.

51 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yea, I'm not sure I've ever seen Dodson play so fast. He was a legitimate animal out there. Maybe WLB better suited him all along? 

WLB next to S and DE are the best positions on defense. You face less blockers (sometimes not blocked at all), have way less responsibilities (so you can just react). It’s a playmaking position. 

[Sierra Foothills]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

If linval Joseph wasn't waiting on the couch for a contender to call him we'd still have a lot of problems

And I recall a bunch of people complaining that we drafted a backup to Matt Milano in the 3rd... And we traded for Douglas 

We're getting by because we got replacements... Barely... And we're only still in this because we have Josh Allen

This team would be on a different level if we had Milano and DaQuan Jones... We did not replace them easily

We've been struggling to get timely stops 

 

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Usually anytime this defense needs a stop it has not gotten one this season 

 

Josh has left the field multiple times with the lead only for it to be erased

 

We have a defensive guru as a head coach of course he could keep it together for the most part... But when it matters it's struggled

 

If We can hold the eagles or the Chiefs to under 24 I would be pumped ... 

 

We also traded for Douglas to shore up the secondary... So we've tried hard to patch all the holes

 

Including the most money invested in the defensive line in the NFL

 

I think you're overstating your case by questioning the Bills defense due to "barely" adequate replacements.

 

A statement of certainty about this defense 3 weeks ago doesn't necessarily hold up today. The late game failures against the Jags, Pats, Bengals, and Broncos may or may no longer be relevant.

 

Rasul Douglas and Linval Joseph are only going to improve as they familiarize and acclimate. Career special teamer Dodson and rookie Dorian will continue to improve with more snaps. The avalanche of injuries (DaQuan, Milano, Tre,, Benford, Hyde, Poyer, Rapp, Taron, Dane) will eventually subside. The shuffling of players and schemes will likely have a positive effect as the players cross train into new assignments and are forced to communicate with each other. It's even arguable that McDermott is still growing back into being a defensive play caller.

 

Personally I'm optimistic about this defense and looking forward to how they progress because that's what I believe is happening.

 

 

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

When those guys aren't getting pressure and making plays it's rat-a-tat-tat thru that back 7 whether Milano is healthy or not.   I mean how many times do we have to see Mahomes and Burrow do it until we can accept pass rush and penetration are the Lord and Savior of the D.     Thankfully, Oliver and Floyd look like they are back to early season form and it showed against the Jets.

 

I don't disagree with you, but with regard to assessing the Bills D last game, I want to emphasize the last line. Here's what Randy Mueller wrote in the Athletic today:

 

https://theathletic.com/5081950/2023/11/22/bills-steelers-jets-changes/

 

"The Jets have been on the verge of a total organizational meltdown in 2023. Changing the starting QB at this point might be the equivalent of throwing a deck chair or two off the Queen Mary.

They are converting 22.9 percent of their third downs on offense and were 0-for-the-game Sunday against the Bills. If this continues, it would be the lowest such rate in more than 50 years in the NFL — and there has been a lot of bad football in the NFL over the last half-century. Out of more than 1,500 NFL teams in that time, nobody can match that ineptitude.

And do I dare tell you what team led this statistic in 2022? That would be the Denver Broncos, orchestrated by the same offensive mind behind the Jets — Nathaniel Hackett.

I am surely not absolving Zach Wilson. He has been bad enough at QB to lose the faith of the locker room for the second year in a row. The film that I reviewed after Sunday was as inept as I’ve seen in a while at the NFL level.

What I’m seeing is putting everybody in the Jets building in jeopardy of losing jobs. The design/execution of this offense and the lack of ability of most of the players on offense (some because of injury) are a fatal combination. The Bills embarrassed the Jets up front. New York had no answers for the most basic of blitzes in the passing game nor any soundness to control the line of scrimmage in the run game. As a whole, the offensive line’s struggle to protect is as much about scheme as it is about individual skill sets. The Jets could have rolled out a healthy Aaron Rodgers and it wouldn’t have mattered.

Wilson was awful, but he is safe now and probably the most thankful of us all that he doesn’t have to take the blame anymore. His days in New York are over, but some team will sign him in the offseason, and he will be better off working in the dark for another franchise, trying to rebuild his career. And he will have takers, trust me."

 

My point is that yeah, the D looked awesome, but consider the competition. The Jets' offense is historically bad (as is the Giants, for that matter).

Edited November 22, 2023 by dave mcbride

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't disagree with you, but with regard to assessing the Bills D last game, I want to emphasize the last line. Here's what Randy Mueller wrote in the Athletic today:

 

https://theathletic.com/5081950/2023/11/22/bills-steelers-jets-changes/

 

"The Jets have been on the verge of a total organizational meltdown in 2023. Changing the starting QB at this point might be the equivalent of throwing a deck chair or two off the Queen Mary.

They are converting 22.9 percent of their third downs on offense and were 0-for-the-game Sunday against the Bills. If this continues, it would be the lowest such rate in more than 50 years in the NFL — and there has been a lot of bad football in the NFL over the last half-century. Out of more than 1,500 NFL teams in that time, nobody can match that ineptitude.

And do I dare tell you what team led this statistic in 2022? That would be the Denver Broncos, orchestrated by the same offensive mind behind the Jets — Nathaniel Hackett.

I am surely not absolving Zach Wilson. He has been bad enough at QB to lose the faith of the locker room for the second year in a row. The film that I reviewed after Sunday was as inept as I’ve seen in a while at the NFL level.

What I’m seeing is putting everybody in the Jets building in jeopardy of losing jobs. The design/execution of this offense and the lack of ability of most of the players on offense (some because of injury) are a fatal combination. The Bills embarrassed the Jets up front. New York had no answers for the most basic of blitzes in the passing game nor any soundness to control the line of scrimmage in the run game. As a whole, the offensive line’s struggle to protect is as much about scheme as it is about individual skill sets. The Jets could have rolled out a healthy Aaron Rodgers and it wouldn’t have mattered.

Wilson was awful, but he is safe now and probably the most thankful of us all that he doesn’t have to take the blame anymore. His days in New York are over, but some team will sign him in the offseason, and he will be better off working in the dark for another franchise, trying to rebuild his career. And he will have takers, trust me."

 

My point is that yeah, the D looked awesome, but consider the competition. The Jets' offense is historically bad (as is the Giants, for that matter).

Yea.. last week was a really good first test for Brady because this Jets Defense has been elite all season .. even when their Offense repeatedly lets them down.  
 

This week will be the test for our new Defense.  One that consists of Douglas and Joseph being up to speed and the tinkering around at LB looking to be settling on some solid ground.   
 

Seems we’re now on the watch for Jackson and Johnson.  Jackson hurts depth, and it is what it is, but I really hope Johnson can go, so we can truly get a look at whether this Defense can be relied upon down the stretch, Philly and beyond. 

[FilthyBeast]

PFF grades can be misleading and it's easy to put this stuff up when it's favorable to a specific team player.

 

I will say this though, it's starting to look like Dodson/Joseph/Douglas is more than a serviceable fix the rest of the season for big holes they are replacing.

 

Still think Douglas is an upgrade over White as well.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't disagree with you, but with regard to assessing the Bills D last game, I want to emphasize the last line. Here's what Randy Mueller wrote in the Athletic today:

 

https://theathletic.com/5081950/2023/11/22/bills-steelers-jets-changes/

 

"The Jets have been on the verge of a total organizational meltdown in 2023. Changing the starting QB at this point might be the equivalent of throwing a deck chair or two off the Queen Mary.

They are converting 22.9 percent of their third downs on offense and were 0-for-the-game Sunday against the Bills. If this continues, it would be the lowest such rate in more than 50 years in the NFL — and there has been a lot of bad football in the NFL over the last half-century. Out of more than 1,500 NFL teams in that time, nobody can match that ineptitude.

And do I dare tell you what team led this statistic in 2022? That would be the Denver Broncos, orchestrated by the same offensive mind behind the Jets — Nathaniel Hackett.

I am surely not absolving Zach Wilson. He has been bad enough at QB to lose the faith of the locker room for the second year in a row. The film that I reviewed after Sunday was as inept as I’ve seen in a while at the NFL level.

What I’m seeing is putting everybody in the Jets building in jeopardy of losing jobs. The design/execution of this offense and the lack of ability of most of the players on offense (some because of injury) are a fatal combination. The Bills embarrassed the Jets up front. New York had no answers for the most basic of blitzes in the passing game nor any soundness to control the line of scrimmage in the run game. As a whole, the offensive line’s struggle to protect is as much about scheme as it is about individual skill sets. The Jets could have rolled out a healthy Aaron Rodgers and it wouldn’t have mattered.

Wilson was awful, but he is safe now and probably the most thankful of us all that he doesn’t have to take the blame anymore. His days in New York are over, but some team will sign him in the offseason, and he will be better off working in the dark for another franchise, trying to rebuild his career. And he will have takers, trust me."

 

My point is that yeah, the D looked awesome, but consider the competition. The Jets' offense is historically bad (as is the Giants, for that matter).

 

 

Yeah I never said the Bills D looked awesome.    It was just a no contest.   The Bills just needed to not turn the ball over and it would be an easy win.   I follow the Jets closely.   I love watching their hilarious post game shows.  Must see TV.

 

 I fully expected them to be at their worst with Garrett Wilson playing with a torn UCL or whatever is going on with the elbow he injured against the Raiders.    It was taking candy from a baby when the ball came to him.   Just saying that Floyd and Oliver seemed to be moving around as well as they had been in a while.   

[Gunsgoodtime]

Watched the game a 2nd time, Dodson was fantastic 

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah I never said the Bills D looked awesome.    It was just a no contest.   The Bills just needed to not turn the ball over and it would be an easy win.   I follow the Jets closely.   I love watching their hilarious post game shows.  Must see TV.

 

 I fully expected them to be at their worst with Garrett Wilson playing with a torn UCL or whatever is going on with the elbow he injured against the Raiders.    It was taking candy from a baby when the ball came to him.   Just saying that Floyd and Oliver seemed to be moving around as well as they had been in a while.   

Floyd and Oliver look as healthy/quick as they have all year.   
 

It doesn’t go as noticed as the obvious loss of players to injury, but this DL has been playing banged up for a while.  If they are starting to finally heal up.. that’s a big deal.  
 

Epenesa continues to play well.  
 

Bills finally stopped forcing Von and are giving Shaq more reps (which he deserves based on his play)

 

Joseph not only solves 1T but also allows Phillips to go back to the role he’s suited for, instead of getting worn down pretending to be a 1T. 
 

Lots of reasons this DL could be primed for a strong run now.   
 

If only Rousseau and Von could move past their injury limitations, we’d potentially have the best DL in the league right now. 

[In Summary]

How much credit goes to Babich for this LB group? Is there a LB he hasn't coached up?

[Freddie's Dead]

16 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I’d bump him down to 89 purely due to the stupid number he currently wears. 

 

He's doing the Roland Hooks 25 proud. 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, In Summary said:

How much credit goes to Babich for this LB group? Is there a LB he hasn't coached up?

No, it’s only the coach’s fault when the players suck and don’t make a play. When they do make a play, it’s because the player did good. 
 

@HappyDays

[mykidsdad]

McDermott can coach D. I think this squad of misfit parts playing so well is some of the strongest evidence yet. However, I still wonder about his ability to take us all the way as the HC.

[Sierra Foothills]

On 11/21/2023 at 1:34 PM, Buffalo716 said:

If linval Joseph wasn't waiting on the couch for a contender to call him we'd still have a lot of problems

 

And I recall a bunch of people complaining that we drafted a backup to Matt Milano in the 3rd... And we traded for Douglas 

 

We're getting by because we got replacements... Barely... And we're only still in this because we have Josh Allen

 

This team would be on a different level if we had Milano and DaQuan Jones... We did not replace them easily

 

We've been struggling to get timely stops 

 

On 11/21/2023 at 1:39 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Usually anytime this defense needs a stop it has not gotten one this season 

 

Josh has left the field multiple times with the lead only for it to be erased

 

We have a defensive guru as a head coach of course he could keep it together for the most part... But when it matters it's struggled

 

If We can hold the eagles or the Chiefs to under 24 I would be pumped ... 

 

We also traded for Douglas to shore up the secondary... So we've tried hard to patch all the holes

 

Including the most money invested in the defensive line in the NFL

 

 

 

You were right.

 

The defense, in spite of some nice in-season reinforcements is falling short and trending in the wrong direction.

 

The loss of DaQuan, Milano, and Tre White hurt quite a bit but in addition Von's recovery remains stuck in neutral and there's little doubt that the Hyde/Poyer excellence is a thing of the past.

 

The officiating in the game was just horrendous but the defense really let the team down again. On the bright side I believe that with another strong offseason combined with the development of players already on the roster that this defense can return to top 5 status.