‘Bye, Bye Barry’ (Sanders) documentary released on prime video

[Chicken Boo]

On 11/21/2023 at 12:38 PM, Patrick Fitzryan said:

Detroit always gets too much flack for "ruining" his career. He got to play in six playoff games, and his stats during the postseason left a LOT to be desired.

 

Mostly because no one else on the team could help him pick up the slack.

 

Have you seen Scott Mitchell's playoff numbers?  

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

Mostly because no one else on the team could help him pick up the slack.

 

Have you seen Scott Mitchell's playoff numbers?  

 

They're Bledsoe-esque.  

 

Mitchel complaining about a documentary about Sanders is like Ferguson complaining about a documetary about Simpson, or Jim McMahon complaining about a documentary about Payton.  

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

Just watched, very good.  Worth the watch.  Also he is the best running back I have ever witnessed in my lifetime

Edited November 26, 2023 by Gunsgoodtime

[Matt_In_NH]

I watched it he is genuine but a man of few words.  The discussion on his fax showed he worked to get the information correct in his fax announcement.  He lost the desire to play but has continued to stop short of saying the lions are the reason for that.   He is just a different cat.   

[Chandler#81]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:15 PM, PonyBoy said:

 

Except some of Sanders teams made the playoffs. But, yes a once in a generation back on a bad team and franchise. 

OJ helped Bills reach the playoffs in ‘74.

[Bill from NYC]

5 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I loved Earl Campbell.  And wouldn't he be great on the Bills with all the power and passion?  Put guys in the box to stop Earl, and we'll throw it over the top.  Play in a soft zone, and Earl will ram the ball up your gut.   We'd be so hard to defend.

But OJ was better.  

I'm not so sure. In his first few seasons coming out of Texas, Earl was just about as fast as OJ in the 100 yard dash. Did he have moves like OJ? No, of course not but he really didn't need them. He had Derek Henry strength (if not stronger) with blinding speed. I saw players get serious injuries trying to tackle Earl.

 

I'm not trying to say that Earl was better than OJ. Stating that one is better than the other is subjective imo. My thing is that Earl Campbell does belong in that top tier, especially in his early years.

 

Jmo.

[BuffaloBill]

18 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Many teams, maybe most, put a spy on OJ.  Fergie became a good QB in later years but when he first got to the NFL his job was to hand off.  Our passing attack in 1973 wasn't anything special.  Neither was our defense.  So the opposing team's game plan was to slow OJ down.  If they did that, they'd win.  With an entire defense focused on him every week, OJ still averaged 143 yards.  

 

People forget the rules were different then.  Hash marks were wider out often squeezing the offense against a sideline.  Linemen couldn't block with their hands.  And so on.  Virtually all the rule changes since the 1970s have favored the offense gaining yards and scoring easier.  

 

Schemes and philosophies were different back then.  More RBs were taken #1 overall in the draft in the 1970s than QBs.  While QBs were important, many teams built their offenses around bell cow running backs.  The best athletes didn't become WRs and CBs, they became RBs.  The coaching mantra was: Establish the run to open the pass.  Then it was all about the run.  

 

So defenses were designed to stop the run.  The Nickel defense we currently run as our base would be considered a pass-prevent defense back then.  LBs weren't coverage guys and blitz specialists.  They were big, violent thumpers like Dick Butkus and Chuck Bednarik whose sole goal in life was to crush running backs.  

 

By 1997, Barry's best year, the league had changed.  Seasons were longer, defenses were more concerned with the pass, and the rule changes made it easier for offenses to move the ball and score.  Barry topped out at 2053 but a couple other guys also took advantage of the changes and finished over 1500 yards.  Still, it was a very good year for Barry as he finished an impressive 17% above the next best guy.

 

In 1973, in a 14 games season where the best athletes played running back and defenses were focused on the run, OJ got 2003 yards - a whopping 75% more yards than the next best guy.   OJ wasn't just a little better than his peers.  He was on a different freaking planet.    His combination of speed, grace, power, elusiveness, and vision were otherworldly.  

 

I am old enough to have watched OJ in his prime.  And I don't think I've ever seen an NFL player - not even Brady - play at a level that was so much ahead of what everyone else was doing.  Brady's career was amazing but how much better in his best years was he than Rodgers, Brees, or Manning.   Not much - if at all.  On the other hand, once Lou Saban came to town, everyone in the NFL knew OJ was the best back in the game and there was little-to-no debate.  

 

 

OJ was exceptional in his talent. It’s just sad to see what he has become as a human. 

[jethro_tull]

On 11/21/2023 at 1:17 PM, hondo in seattle said:

 

In my opinion, the best pure running back to play the game was OJ.  OJ's moves were a little more subtle than Barry's but just as effective.  And OJ was bigger, faster, and stronger.   OJ wasn't the best blocker.  He was underutilized as a receiver.  But as a runner, he was a man playing with boys.  

I don't have the stats but I'll guess Barry had more negative plays than OJ.  The highlights don't show that.

 

If OJ wasn't murderous scum, the NFL and its fans would remember him differently.  I think the top tier of running backs consists of two players: Jim Brown and OJ.  I think Barry is in the next tier with Walter Payton and some others.  

 

But most people don't rank RBs that way - with OJ in the top two - because of the ick factor of OJ's post-career crimes rightfully tainting his reputation.   

 

If OJ had died in a car accident when he was traded to the 49ers, the Jimi Hendrix effect would be working in his favor and he'd be remembered as a legend.  

Simpson was the best most exciting running back since his era.  He was a credible threat to score every time he touched the ball- from anyplace on the field. A huge anticipation factor.  

[Prospector]

7 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Just watched, very good.  Worth the watch.  Also he is the best running back I have ever witnessed in my lifetime

Then you must have never seen Karlos Williams run. 

[transient]

7 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

They're Bledsoe-esque.  

 

Mitchel complaining about a documentary about Sanders is like Ferguson complaining about a documetary about Simpson, or Jim McMahon complaining about a documentary about Payton.  

 

 

Yeah, Mitchell taking aim at Sanders’s playoff production is a bad look when he supported him with a total of 1 TD and 5 INTs in 2 games. His numbers actually help support the very thing he’s arguing against. It would be akin to the no-name Jets backup/starter QB scrub chirping about a compliment paid to an actual NFL level player. 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, transient said:

Yeah, Mitchell taking aim at Sanders’s playoff production is a bad look when he supported him with a total of 1 TD and 5 INTs in 2 games. His numbers actually help support the very thing he’s arguing against. It would be akin to the no-name Jets backup/starter QB scrub chirping about a compliment paid to an actual NFL level player. 

 

LOL, exactly!

 

You forgot to add Mitchell's career playoff QB Rating of 23, average of 116 passing yards/game, 42.6% compl. %, 4.3 YPA and .5 AYPA.  

 

If only Sanders had held up his end of the deal ... 

 

 

 

 

[hondo in seattle]

6 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I'm not so sure. In his first few seasons coming out of Texas, Earl was just about as fast as OJ in the 100 yard dash. Did he have moves like OJ? No, of course not but he really didn't need them. He had Derek Henry strength (if not stronger) with blinding speed. I saw players get serious injuries trying to tackle Earl.

 

I'm not trying to say that Earl was better than OJ. Stating that one is better than the other is subjective imo. My thing is that Earl Campbell does belong in that top tier, especially in his early years.

 

Jmo.

 

I respect your point of view.

 

When I was young, I fancied myself a wide receiver.  But when I watched football, my attention was always drawn to the running backs.  Maybe because back then they were the most athletic guys on the field.

 

And OJ was an amazing athlete.  Watching him weave and power through a defense was like watching an artist at work.  

 

Earl was a bruiser.  Not as beautiful to watch.  But, man, he was impressive. 

 

Derrick Henry is an apt comparison for Campbell.  Henry is also powerful and fun to watch.  But he's a poor man's Earl Campbell.   And, while in my eyes, OJ was the better of the two, I think it's clear that there are no backs today as talented as either Campbell or Simpson (or Barry).  

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by hondo in seattle