Defending the brotherly shove

[dma0034]

I don't like pushing players at all. Even when it's a rb and the defense has him and the oline starts pushing him for another 5+ yards. I think it should be ruled down. This isn't rugby and pushing people doesn't have any level of sportsmanship in the NFL.

[MJS]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

A team this year tried the Brotherly Shove  and had like 3 players injured. But people said it’s proof only the Eagles can do it.

It was the Giants and they had 2 injured. I mentioned that in my post.

4 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

I don't like pushing players at all. Even when it's a rb and the defense has him and the oline starts pushing him for another 5+ yards. I think it should be ruled down. This isn't rugby and pushing people doesn't have any level of sportsmanship in the NFL.

Why? I just don't get this. How is it bad sportsmanship? How is it any different than blocking? You push people out of the way for the runner, why is it bad to push the runner through? It is essentially the same as blocking.

[Rockpile233]

As a fan…it’s a boring, ugly play. I would support them getting rid of it for that reason alone. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

6 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

I would wholeheartedly ban the pushing of any player feom behind whether they be an offensive or defensive player.

Yeah... Leverage on kicks is illegal, why not here.

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Why? I just don't get this. How is it bad sportsmanship? How is it any different than blocking? You push people out of the way for the runner, why is it bad to push the runner through? It is essentially the same as blocking.

Physics.  Same team players are going in same direction.  It's easy, especially when a new set if downs lies inches ahead. Offense gets a major advantage.

 

It's easy.  A blocker is facing and opposing force.

[RoyBatty is alive]

The problem with the play is that it morphs into other aspects of football.  The NFL is gradually going to look more and more like rugby with people pushing runners forward.  You see it all all levels now.  There used to be a penalty for "assisting the runner", they was removed a few years ago.  Now  if a runner is stood up people try to push them forward which extends the play which, by definition, will increase the odds of injuries, prima facie.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, folz said:

 

 

 

I've been thinking this since I heard the nickname "Brotherly Shove." I was like how did that come about (Philly getting credit or the moniker for this play)? The Bills ran this a number of times last season and I remember announcers saying (at that time) that they had never seen it before (Gabe/a WR helping to push Josh/QB in the end zone) and then, eventually, other teams started to followed suit. Not that it really matters who gets credit (except maybe to Ken Dorsey), but I've been like why is this now Philadelphia's thing? As if they invented it.

Because they use it to almost perfection.  The Bills have incidents like fumbling the ball on a QB sneak to lose a game.  The Eagles use it to win games all the time.

[Gisele]

I'm guessing they'll come out with a rule that will not allow a player to be pushed when he (or she) is between the tackles and within 2 yards of the line of scrimmage.  

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Gisele

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, Gisele said:

I'm guessing they'll come out with a rule that will not allow a player to be pushed when he (or she) is between the tackles and within 2 yards of the line of scrimmage.  

 

Just reinstate the old one, no "assisting the runner", and that should be anywhere on the field, just not short yardage.

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yeah... Leverage on kicks is illegal, why not here.

Physics.  Same team players are going in same direction.  It's easy, especially when a new set if downs lies inches ahead. Offense gets a major advantage.

 

It's easy.  A blocker is facing and opposing force.

So, we are banning plays because they are good? Because they are hard to defend? Better ban any form of QB sneak, then. The physics are the same.

 

The only legitimate issue is if the injury rate is higher. And I don't think it is.

[Old Coot]

1 hour ago, wjag said:

found this interesting..  Joe Thomas has a pretty good breakdown of the strategies to stop it

Thanks for pointing us to Joe Thomas' analysis.

 

I would have thought that the DL getting lower than the OL would stop the OL's push and create a pile but then you must deal with Hurts being pushed to "body surf" on top of the pile. So you need to stop the body surfing. Having your LBs jump over the pile to get to Hurts doesn't work because they are in the air while the pushers are grounded.

 

Thomas' idea of knocking the pushers off Hurts is intriguing.

[Just in Atlanta]

5 hours ago, peterpan said:

Honestly I don’t see a safety concern.  It’s probably one of the safest plays in football.  There’s no momentum.  You aren’t going to push on someone’s leg hard enough to break it.   That force requires a lot of speed.

 

that’s why injuries are way up in the NFl.  Everyone went to these spread offenses, the nfl pushed it thinking it would be safer than “3 yards and a cloud of dust”.  You used to have 300# guys standing still pushing each other, and now you have 225# guys running 25mph getting smacked by other 225# guys going 25 mph in the other direction. 

I agree.

 

QB sneak is one of the safest plays in football.

[Matt_In_NH]

On 11/21/2023 at 1:06 PM, Gisele said:

I'm guessing they'll come out with a rule that will not allow a player to be pushed when he (or she) is between the tackles and within 2 yards of the line of scrimmage.  

 

They talked about it last year and it went no where. 

[nedboy7]

What if Linval was to cannonball onto Hurts’ spine?