Josh is effin back. He says so himself.

[transient]

I translated it as…

 

“I feel like I’m” ready to put this team on my “f***ing back!”

[Mister Defense]

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

You know, I just don't see how people can see that.  Sorry.

 

Last season, our offense was #4 in the NFL for both points and yards with Dorsey at the helm. 

 

This season, we're currently #4 for points and #2 for yards.  Various knowledgeable people, including former NFL QBs and some coaches who hang here and are generous enough to share what they know, have broken down plays this season and shown that there were open options on many pass plays that Josh overlooked, and that our running offense has been effective from the formation utilized (shotgun).

It's not to say that there weren't real reasons for Dorsey's firing, that he isn't just a scapegoat and that the Bills offense may potentially run better under Brady.  It's possible - I need more than 1 game to see that, especially since we "settled" for 4 FG including with 2 starts in great field position. 

 

But I've been a Bills fan since the mid-60s and "historically bad, incompetent" for Dorsey is a tough sell.  You can can argue anything, including that the moon is made of green cheese - but De Rules are de rules and the Facts are the Facts and the argument for "historically bad" doesn't pass muster against the actual offensive parameters.

 

 

 

Dorsey got buy because he inherited a generational talent at quarterback and a team hitting their stride offensively under Daboll.

 

They slowly declined once Dorsey's stamp became more significant, but the talent and recent history helped the Bills masque his incompetence for a while.

 

He didn't scheme to get his players open against the specific defenses they played--that in itself indicates an historically bad OC--very shocking.

 

Did not mesh the run with the pass, as the runs, the few he attempted, seemed just thrown in, and so made almost no difference

 

With awful game plans, the Bills were falling behind in almost every game, and he had no plan for that either, no in game changes until it was too late.  Shoot, they were lucky they did not lose to the Taylor led Giants and Tampa Bay.

 

Mike Robinson called him out, and called for his dismissal after the New England game, saying that Allen had almost no options for short passes and hot reads, when the Pats pressured him.

 

And Dan Orlosvky said that they were outrageously predictable--and the easiest team in the entire league to defend! Our Josh Allen team!

 

Yup, and these are only the tips of the iceberg when it came to the fundamental problems--he simply did not know what he was doing, should never have been put in that position or applied for it.

 

I guess we will see more clearly if my criticism holds up as the year progresses. 

 

But, heck, they sure looked like a dramatically better--and different-- offense against the Jets, didn't they?

 

 

[Mister Defense]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Adam Gase and Nathaniel Hacket have been hired numerous times in the NFL.

 

Good point, as most tend to like the old stand byes rather than something new.

 

But at least those two had some success in play calling and other important areas of offense in their history. Dorsey did not, from what I recall.

 

However, I do think Dorsey can be a head football coach even, though he will not make  the big bucks he's used to when he leads that middle school team.

 

 

[Heathcliff]

23 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

We will most certainly find out, and the rest of the AFC is going to sit up and take notice if we win at least 2 of the next 3 games. Right now I'm happy about the win, but in a "we'll see" mode once teams adjust to our new Brady-led offense

I tend to agree but how do you stop all of the playmakers on offense if Josh and Brady continue to use them as they did on Sunday?   Davis and Diggs were non factors in the passing game other than being double covered the whole game.  It comes down to continuing to feature the guys that are getting open and/or getting it done. 
 

I suspect the Philly D coordinator is going to have a few sleepless nights this week. 

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, Beck Water said:

This season, we're currently #4 for points and #2 for yards.  Various knowledgeable people, including former NFL QBs and some coaches who hang here and are generous enough to share what they know, have broken down plays this season and shown that there were open options on many pass plays that Josh overlooked, and that our running offense has been effective from the formation utilized (shotgun).

 

It's not just about ... but that guy was open.  It's about making an offense that fits the talent you have on the team.  Josh was struggling with this offense.  The players were struggling with this offense.  The talent was not utilized.  Coaching was not making the mistakes go away.  But hey a guy was open. There is a lot more to it then that.

 

Dorsey ran a generic offense designed to just have plays that had answers. Plays that are run against any defense and not an actual gameplan to exploit a specific teams weakness.  He didn't run plays that actually schemed anything. It relied on the players always making the right decision and have precision. There isn't room for errors.  He had no idea what to do with half the players on this team.  He ran motion just to run motion and did so sparingly. He had no mix of the run to pass game.  Sure, he ran the ball but never a surprise.  It was run run run run run until it was stopped and then back to pass pass pass pass.

 

Joe B came in and constantly rotated through our offensive players on the bench.  He simplified things down for Josh to have easy button plays. He used motion a lot.  More than anytime Dorsey has.  Not only that but that motion had purpose.  It identified coverage and also cleared spots for receivers to be.  We used the middle of the field quite a bit.  Something we didn't do much of before. He had a run and pass game mixture to keep the defense guessing instead of just going one or the other.  He had a plan against a team and embarrassed them. He ran plays to setup future plays.  He ran plays that made the defense defend everything. Something Dorsey has not been able to do against the Jets.

 

McD made a comment and said something along the lines of "I could hear all the chatter of the offensive staff communicating and adjusting throughout the game."  You don't make that comment unless it's something that hadn't normally happened.

 

Sorry, it might not seem like much but it obviously was.  It isn't just about "that guy was open" on the still shot.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Scott7975

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, Mister Defense said:

 

Good point, as most tend to like the old stand byes rather than something new.

 

But at least those two had some success in play calling and other important areas of offense in their history. Dorsey did not, from what I recall.

 

However, I do think Dorsey can be a head football coach even, though he will not make  the big bucks he's used to when he leads that middle school team.

 

 

Ken Dorsey was the QB coach to both MVP Cam and Josh Allen. He’ll be a QB coach somewhere next season, probably for whatever team takes Caleb Williams.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

[pigpen65]

The OC gets fired and the star QB immediately says he's ***** back, lol

[Richard Noggin]

9 hours ago, blacklabel said:

 

Hey, youse better watch it, pal. He said all is NOT forgiven. So... Josh owes him something, clearly. Do youse wanna owe him something as well, Ricardo?! Ricardo Cranium!!

 

Ricardo Cranium is my cousin. 

[Allen2Moulds]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:30 PM, BillsShredder83 said:

Never had a dumb boss that you knew was making dumb decisions and you're just stuck there having to listen and go along.

 

You look around and everyone else in the office/job site knows this is stupid and definitely not going to work.... you guys try, but its getting worse. And the dumb boss is just hitting everyone with a try again.... 6 weeks wasted. Is your attitude going to be chipper? They aren't robots.

 

An OC who's a dead man walking, sulking the joy out of your life's passion. Playing away from your strengths, incompetence embarrassing the entire team week after week.

 

Then reporters "DIGG" in on you. But you have to bite your tongue, eat it, fully knowing you could end the witch hunt with about 5 or 6 words.

 

Keep hoping this is the week it either works or this guys gone.... and every Monday he's in there RAH RAH ING you.

 

OK I got a little off my analogy and into the real deal, but I can certainly see how it'd suck. We see it every year on 4-6 teams. Far from rare. You can't win in this league on raw talent.

 

Look how Romo calls plays out. You have NFL defenses calling out your bad plays at the line because its just predictable and bad. Bad, everything bad.... but you're the best. I just had to swipe hairs that fell out from stress off my phone screen imagining that. 

 

ECSTATIC TO SEE MY BOY BACK!!!

Spot on! Great analogy. If we're able to take out the Eagles this week, watch out!

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

It's not just about ... but that guy was open.  It's about making an offense that fits the talent you have on the team.  Josh was struggling with this offense.  The players were struggling with this offense.  The talent was not utilized.  Coaching was not making the mistakes go away.  But hey a guy was open. There is a lot more to it then that.

 

While you're not wrong that there's more to it than "a guy was open", I'm pretty sure on a short week we weren't running new plays with different players in different roles.

 

The timing of what plays were called when, and using one play to set up another, was different.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Beck Water

[Scott7975]

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

While you're not wrong that there's more to it than "a guy was open", I'm pretty sure on a short week we weren't running new plays with different players in different roles.

 

The timing of what plays were called when, and using one play to set up another, was different.

 

 

 

Who said anything about different players in different roles?  I said he rotated the talent that was on the bench.  Everyone saw the field and was involved.  Even the practice squad running back.

[Nelius]

Of course he is, the greats always bounce back. I know some 43 year old relationship expert from Gowanda probably had this all diagnosed a couple of weeks ago as if he was already Cam Newton broken, but anybody with a shred of fandom knew that our A1 Blue Chip Franchise QB would be alright. He's also quietly leading the league in passing TDs despite it being a down, broken year lol.

 

Just pause and reflect on that for a second if you were even around a decade ago - our QB is leading the league in passing TDs after 11 weeks and people still think it's a down year. 

[Allen2Moulds]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

While you're not wrong that there's more to it than "a guy was open", I'm pretty sure on a short week we weren't running new plays with different players in different roles.

 

The timing of what plays were called when, and using one play to set up another, was different.

 

 

I agree, but will also added that doing less RPO in favor of marrying the QB run to the pass, was a really nice and effective element. But like you said, it's def more about when we called what, and the purpose behind it. Brady showed that he was always thinking ahead. I think that's why our offense seemed smooth and natural.

[Warcodered]

 

[Thrivefourfive]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:54 AM, John from Riverside said:

Letis Patrick Mahomes lose a string of games and see what his demeanor is

Not sure you’re aware Of how games Mahomes doesn’t lose, all the way through February. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Thrivefourfive said:

Not sure you’re aware Of how games Mahomes doesn’t lose, all the way through February. 

Thank you for making my point

[Bubba Gump]

On 11/20/2023 at 6:51 PM, Beast said:

To be fair, a word was bleeped out.

 

He also could have said…..

 

“I’m feel like I’m not quite back!”

 

“I’m feel like I’m a running back!”

 

”I’m feel like I’m never coming back!”

 

I guess we’ll never ***** know. 🤷🏼

 

 

 

 

I thought he said

 

"I feel like I'm smoking crack"

[Andy1]

 

[Don Otreply]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:32 AM, Beck Water said:

 

While you're not wrong that there's more to it than "a guy was open", I'm pretty sure on a short week we weren't running new plays with different players in different roles.

 

The timing of what plays were called when, and using one play to set up another, was different.

 

 

Personnel use, play calling with purpose, an actual game plan, in game adjustments, all making execution by the players easier, is what the difference was , and low and behold the offense looks competent and has success.

 

GO BILLS!!!