Beane's draft record - with several players emerging, has your opinion changed at all?

[bobobonators]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:12 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Forget out team record this year (there are a lot of factors in that)...but one silver lining has been we have seen a lot of young players begin to emerge into good to even great players for us this year.  

 

So I am curious if the emergence of these young players, many of which were written off or not thought much of prior to the start of the season, has impacted people's view of his draft history.  Personally, I already thought Beane had done well in the draft...but he obviously still had his fair share of critics around here. 

 

Some of those players include:  AJE, Bernard, Benford, Shakir, Cook, Kincaid, O'Cyrus, Dorian, and even Oliver to an extent.  

• AJE - (2nd round)A long time whipping boy around here despite having a mini breakout last year with 6.5 sacks in a rotational role.  He has become a very good player for us this season already matching his sack total last year and on pace for 10 sacks, plus he has an INT and defensive TD.  
• Bernard - (3rd round)Labeled a bust by many the moment he was drafted and considered a major liability by most heading into this season.  But he has been one of the defenses best players for this team on the season.
• Benford - (6th round) Seen as a guy only playing because Elam wasn't ready to winning the 3 way battle and playing like a starting corner.
• Shakir - (5th round) Disregarded by many just because he fell to the 5th round, falsely labeled by many of not having good hands mostly because of one tough catch in the playoff last year.  Now he is becoming a staple in the offense with his snap count rising from 10% week 1 to now 80% nearly this week.  Has the best catch rate on the team.  
• Cook - (2nd round) Considered a change of pace 3rd down back with little value as a featured runner.  Currently 2nd in the NFL in rushing yards despite Dorsey's struggle with consistently involving him and looking like a long term important player for this offense right now.
• Kincaid - (1st round) He did have a lot of hype, but was too early to know, but he is proving that hype is legit and now the 2nd best receiving weapon on the team.  
• O'Cyrus - (2nd round) Instant starter and while he has had some rookie struggles, he has really made an impact on the OL for the most part. 
• Oliver - (1st round) Most were against his extension, now he not only is proving he was worth it, he has become one of the elite DT's in the NFL this year under McD's defense.  

 

So has this impacted your view of his draft history seeing these guys really start to emerge and breakout this year?  

 

NOTE:  I think AJE, Cook, and O'Cyrus play is getting to the point that the old "Beane can't draft in the 2nd round" criticism is headed for retirement.  

 

For the record, my vote was:

B Grade

A Grade

Better

Fire Beane

51% of people on here thought he did a good job drafting prior to this season. LOL! Thats BS.
 

A lot of you lie as much as you complain apparently. 

[Bill from NYC]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:08 PM, FireChans said:

The market has spoken Bill. DB’s, specifically corners, are the second highest paid defensive position, just behind pass rushers.

You are 100% correct. That said, as I recall the salary range for corners isn't necessarily increasing like other positions as of late. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

The thing is, if the  secondary is your main focus in the draft, your team will not be a winner. Levy proved this for a long time. McDermott proved this in his first year hear. I mean, which players are playing the best at corner for the Bills? Is it the guy who we gave away the Mahomes pick for? Is it the guy we traded up for?  McDermott's fingerprints are all over these stupid deals. Teams don't need Mel Blount and Deon Sanders type superstars to play in a zone. If you have them, GREAT, but should they be a team's main focus? I think not.

 

On a side note, I noticed that the refs are finally starting to call penalties on the "great" Sauce Gardner. I don't yet know what conclusion to draw from this but I do find it interesting.

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

You are 100% correct. That said, as I recall the salary range for corners isn't necessarily increasing like other positions as of late. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

The thing is, if the  secondary is your main focus in the draft, your team will not be a winner. Levy proved this for a long time. McDermott proved this in his first year hear. I mean, which players are playing the best at corner for the Bills? Is it the guy who we gave away the Mahomes pick for? Is it the guy we traded up for?  McDermott's fingerprints are all over these stupid deals. Teams don't need Mel Blount and Deon Sanders type superstars to play in a zone. If you have them, GREAT, but should they be a team's main focus? I think not.

 

On a side note, I noticed that the refs are finally starting to call penalties on the "great" Sauce Gardner. I don't yet know what conclusion to draw from this but I do find it interesting.

The Chiefs traded up for a CB in the first as well, and he has been a large part of the reason they were successful last year and this year. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by FireChans

[LABILLBACKER]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:17 PM, BBFL said:

Nice post. There’s a healthy blend of talent throughout this team via draft and free agency. I get the McD criticism but Beane has done a decent job through the draft. At least 2 to 3 essential contributors each year. Not bad. Guy gets way too much flak for his draft history IMHO, can’t hit on every player as nice as it may be. 
 

One pick and one pick only have I disliked; the Boogie Basham double dip DE in the draft. 

Simply because Groot was taken shortly before him. Weird selection. 

I agree. Albeit not perfect,  Brandon has done a very good job. I'm much more receptive to keeping him than McD.

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Fire Beane

51% of people on here thought he did a good job drafting prior to this season. LOL! Thats BS.
 

A lot of you lie as much as you complain apparently. 

If “good but with some fatal flaws” was an option, I would have picked it

[DrDawkinstein]

53 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The Chiefs traded up for a CB in the first as well, and he has been a large part of the reason they were successful last year and this year. 

 

The very CB we were trying to draft, and the one we should have gotten before the panic pick. Even with Beane's good grades now, they would have been even better had he just been able to pull off McDuffie instead of Elam.

[Bermuda Triangle]

On 11/21/2023 at 10:43 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I believe that was the previous draft strategy when the roster was already PACKED with veterans and most draft picks werent going to be counted on to start. They could pick guys with higher ceilings but needing development work.

 

That has changed, and will definitely change going into next season. And we saw Beane shift to picking players that could play immediately in Kincaid and Torrence.

 

At least I'm hoping that was all on purpose.

The Williams pick didn't make sense to me.  Maybe he will be an above average NFL player one day, but the pick - given the needs at S and WR at the time, and having Milano at LB - was odd, IMO

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

The Chiefs traded up for a CB in the first as well, and he has been a large part of the reason they were successful last year and this year. 

 

Yea I love Bill but he is just wrong on corner.

[FireChans]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I love Bill but he is just wrong on corner.

He was right when the Bills were drafting DB’s instead of QB’s to be fair 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

He was right when the Bills were drafting DB’s instead of QB’s to be fair 

 

Yes exactly, he was. But it has poisoned his long term thinking on the position. And it is a position that DOES matter in the modern game. If you don't have 1 very good reliable corner you are the Lions. A good team that can lose to literally anybody at any moment. 

[Sharky7337]

None have shown up in big moments yet. So i i dont consider them emerging.

[FireChans]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yes exactly, he was. But it has poisoned his long term thinking on the position. And it is a position that DOES matter in the modern game. If you don't have 1 very good reliable corner you are the Lions. A good team that can lose to literally anybody at any moment. 

Man if only that kid they took third didn’t bust. What a shame.

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Man if only that kid they took third didn’t bust. What a shame.

 

I loved Okudah too. I am still shocked he busted.

[Alphadawg7]

15 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Dawg,

 

As always nice post, but for me it’s difficult to evaluate the draft without looking at free agency and trades.  It’s turning out as of late Beane had a massive injection in talent in Joseph and Douglas, and if you want to go back awhile, Diggs.  You’re listed draft picks are definitely hits, but a few took awhile like AJE.

 

Thanks for the work you put in on this thread.  Enjoy your Black Friday.  I know I don’t want anything to do with shopping. 

Agree and thanks, hope you had a great day and holiday 

17 hours ago, mannc said:

As talented as he is, taking Gibbs at 12 was egregious, especially for team in such dire need at CB, and especially when the guy they traded away to make room for Gibbs has been just as productive this year as Gibbs. The Lions are already paying the price…they look like a team that’s headed for an early playoff exit, largely because their defense is mediocre.  No one has any idea where Gibbs would go in a “re-draft” (because of course there is no such thing), but I suppose it’s possible that some team would do something equally dumb in a (hypothetical) redraft.  The only worse pick last year was Atlanta taking Bijan Robinson at 8—a firing offense if I’ve ever seen one.  
 

The best way to measure the success of the Gibbs pick is whether Detroit picks up his fifth-year option, and we can already say that the odds on that are long.

I disagree with some of this and agree with some of it.  But overall a fair reply 

[John from Riverside]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I love Bill but he is just wrong on corner.

I don’t think anybody can convince me that Elam was a scramble pick and they wanted that other corner

 

Having said that

 

Bloom did get a Benford who is panning out in his hits far outweigh is Misses

 

Also

 

Drafting is just one part of the general managers job. He has done very well with free agent acquisitions, finding guys on minimum and late in the process like Leonard Floyd treating for  Douglas.

[Nihilarian]

On 11/20/2023 at 6:48 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Not trying to be that guy, but the Elam pick still baffles me. Hard to believe he can’t even get on the field. Theres gotta be something more to the story. 

He is not a scheme fit for the Bills. In college, he excelled at man-to-man heavy press corner and he is still learning McD's defensive zone scheme.  The only real way to learn in the NFL is to play and he has been underrepped. 

 

Against Maimi, he played well, and in other games not so well. Obviously, this coaching staff must feel he needs more time in this scheme as the physical talent is there. He is after all the fastest DB on the roster.

 

Sometimes good players don't emerge in the NFL right away. Take a long hard look at the new Buffalo Bill's #1 CB in Rasul Douglas. Eagles, Panthers, Raiders*, Cards*, Packers*, and now Buffalo. Bills fans complained about giving up a third for him at first. He had 3 turnovers against the Jets, 2 INTs, and a fumble recovery.

[SoCal Deek]

6 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

He is not a scheme fit for the Bills. In college, he excelled at man-to-man heavy press corner and he is still learning McD's defensive zone scheme.  The only real way to learn in the NFL is to play and he has been underrepped. 

 

Against Maimi, he played well, and in other games not so well. Obviously, this coaching staff must feel he needs more time in this scheme as the physical talent is there. He is after all the fastest DB on the roster.

 

Sometimes good players don't emerge in the NFL right away. Take a long hard look at the new Buffalo Bill's #1 CB in Rasul Douglas. Eagles, Panthers, Raiders*, Cards*, Packers*, and now Buffalo. Bills fans complained about giving up a third for him at first. He had 3 turnovers against the Jets, 2 INTs, and a fumble recovery.

In a phrase….lets hope so! I admire your optimism. It’s just odd that this is the same staff that ‘recruited’ him and the same defensive scheme they had when they did so. I personally find it hard to believe they drafted a guy in the First Round that they considered to be a ‘project’. 

[Einstein's Dog]

To the OP, I grade the same way as you.  This last draft has upgraded my view on Beane drafting.

 

I was disappointed with the 2022 draft, mainly because I was hoping they would take a WR over the CB in round 1 (c Watkins/G Pickens).  After the draft I felt they went too needs oriented and that Beane was being a little too conservative.

 

The 2023 draft shocked me in a very pleasant way.  Beane put to rest the defense domination criticism.  He took a risk to move up for a player in questionable positional value (TE), where we already had a player (Knox).  The move up was quickly justified to me when I saw the video of the Dallas draft room.  And personally I've seen enough of Kincaid to call him a star, I'm excited about at least another 4 1/2 years of him.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

One of my concerns about Ed is the injuries he has had these last two seasons. Only missed one game this year but boy was it a big one to miss. We likely beat the Patriots if he plays. If he goes down with another injury this year I will really start to be concerned. 

[DrDawkinstein]

23 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

The Williams pick didn't make sense to me.  Maybe he will be an above average NFL player one day, but the pick - given the needs at S and WR at the time, and having Milano at LB - was odd, IMO

 

Kinda, yes. But at the same time, Edmunds just left in FA. We were going into camp with only Milano, and then a bunch of question marks. Across our entire LB unit.

 

We were and are far better off at Safety and WR than LB from just a numbers game.