Allen makes history again- this is a big 1

[ALG1130]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We have top 3 defense for a couple years with Allen. 

You really believe this? You didn't side eye The Bills 2021 defense that performed well against bottom of the barrel teams, but could not contain decent to great offenses(Titans, Colts, Pats run game, Bucs, Chiefs in the divsional?) It's not like Josh and our offense didn't keep putting the team in a position to go to it's 2nd AFCCG in a row, only to be undone by the defense. If our defense was so great, 13 seconds would never have happened.

 

2020 our defense was terrible. 2021 and 2022 they were improved, but again, injuries and beating up on bad teams and allowing a lot of yards against good ones.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There's no need to diminish anything. This is a great stat.

 

I didn't even bring up Mahomes. You engaged someone else who did. And of course, the reason that Josh broke Mahomes' stat, today, is because Patrick didn't start his first season.  Who could argue this?

 

And Mahomes being in the Chiefs' offense has nothing to do with him being up there? 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

And Mahomes being in the Chiefs' offense has nothing to do with him being up there? 

That had a lot to do with it too!

 

Josh also being in the Bills' offense has a lot to do with it as well.

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

 

And there's still at least 6 more games to add to that record and if it includes post season would possibly give him up to 10 more games potentially to add to record.

 

 

 

 

The records are for regular season only.

[Alphadawg7]

24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There's no need to diminish anything. This is a great stat.

 

I didn't even bring up Mahomes. You engaged someone else who did. And of course, the reason that Josh broke Mahomes' stat, today, is because Patrick didn't start his first season.  Who could argue this?

Who could argue that Josh did it with less and still has not finishing his 6th year and by the time he does he could very well still have the record if you remove Allen’s first 15 games to match Mahomes starts?  Yet here we are with people arguing and diminishing Allen’s record before he’s even finished establishing what the record is.  

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That had a lot to do with it too!

 

Josh also being in the Bills' offense has a lot to do with it as well.

 

I think having Reid as his OC is a huge advantage.  If/when McD gets canned, they should look for a top OC to be next HC.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Who could argue that Josh did it with less and still has not finishing his 6th year and by the time he does he could very well still have the record if you remove Allen’s first 15 games to match Mahomes starts?  Yet here we are with people arguing and diminishing Allen’s record before he’s even finished establishing what the record is.  

What is more impressive of a stat, to you? 
 

X is the fastest to Y total TD’s, doing it in Z starts.

 

X has the most total TD’s in W years.

[Alphadawg7]

34 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Post after post of this drivel but nah I’m not putting down Mahomes to prop up Allen. lol 

Doubt it. 

Exactly! They’re both great QBs and great guys! Some people can’t talk up our guy without disparaging other guys. Especially the consensus best qb in the league. 

Geezus man…pointing out Allen had less to work with is not diminishing Mahomes at all.  It’s like this board has a reading comprehension problem this morning.

 

Since when are indisputable facts a an insult to another player?  Does it make Mahomes less great?  NO, not at all.  It makes Allen’s accomplishment more impressive considering, but in literally no way, like 0% does it diminish Mahomes, his status as the top guy, etc.  

But if you want to keep misreading, misinterpreting, and inventing your own narratives about a very factual and clear statement of fact, then so be it.  But literally NOT ONE person is saying Allen is better than Mahomes over this record even though you’re trying to spin it if they are.  
 

Facts are:  Mahomes started with a great roster around him, Allen didn’t.  Allen still persevered despite the challenges he had to go through.  That is simply an impressive accomplishment for Allen, not in anyway a slight at Mahomes.  

 

And Allen still has 6 more games to further extend his lead that could make the first season a moot point too. 
 

 

Just now, FireChans said:

What is more impressive of a stat, to you? 
 

X is the fastest to Y total TD’s, doing it in Z starts.

 

X has the most total TD’s in W years.

1.  Who cares.

 

2.  You realize Allen could easily own both records by season end right?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Geezus man…pointing out Allen had less to work with is not diminishing Mahomes at all.  It’s like this board has a reading comprehension problem this morning.

 

Since when are indisputable facts a an insult to another player?  Does it make Mahomes less great?  NO, not at all.  It makes Allen’s accomplishment more impressive considering, but in literally no way, like 0% does it diminish Mahomes, his status as the top guy, etc.  

But if you want to keep misreading, misinterpreting, and inventing your own narratives about a very factual and clear statement of fact, then so be it.  But literally NOT ONE person is saying Allen is better than Mahomes over this record even though you’re trying to spin it if they are.  
 

Facts are:  Mahomes started with a great roster around him, Allen didn’t.  Allen still persevered despite the challenges he had to go through.  That is simply an impressive accomplishment for Allen, not in anyway a slight at Mahomes.  

 

And Allen still has 6 more games to further extend his lead that could make the first season a moot point too. 
 

 

1.  Who cares.

 

2.  You realize Allen could easily own both records by season end right?

You clearly care quite a bit.

 

Josh Allen is awesome. I think he's the second best QB in football. That's pretty great. Glad we have him.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You clearly care quite a bit.

 

Josh Allen is awesome. I think he's the second best QB in football. That's pretty great. Glad we have him.

 

You realize Allen only played 8 more games than Mahomes did right?  To pretend that the talent around Mahomes and Allen to start their careers didn't factor into those 8 games is pretty ridiculous.  

 

None of that means Allen is "better" than Mahomes, it means Allens accomplishment is worthy of the credit he gets for it.  

[C.Biscuit97]

23 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

You're joking with your "fun fact," right?

Facts don’t care about you feelings!

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com//players/H/HillTy00.htm?__hstc=205977932.b3205eb46cfaaea433c49604b57718de.1700494694113.1700494694113.1700494694113.1&__hssc=205977932.1.1700494694113&__hsfp=2789256917

 

through 2 seasons, KB (a first rounder so he was though had almost 2,000 receiving yards.  Hill (5th rounder) , first 2 seasons with Alex Smith, 1,700 yards. Hardly HOFer. Then entered Mahomes.

[Doc]

24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Facts don’t care about you feelings!

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com//players/H/HillTy00.htm?__hstc=205977932.b3205eb46cfaaea433c49604b57718de.1700494694113.1700494694113.1700494694113.1&__hssc=205977932.1.1700494694113&__hsfp=2789256917

 

through 2 seasons, KB (a first rounder so he was though had almost 2,000 receiving yards.  Hill (5th rounder) , first 2 seasons with Alex Smith, 1,700 yards. Hardly HOFer. Then entered Mahomes.

 

Your facts are feelings.  Benjamin barely squeaked-out a 1,000 yard season his rookie year (3 years before joining the Bills) and got worse as his career went on, playing his last season the year after he went to the Bills.  Hill got 1,000 yards his 2nd season in the NFL (Mahomes' rookie season) and has been putting up better numbers without Mahomes.  Both he and Kelce (who averaged ~1,100 yards/season with Smith and fewer targets) were already on HOF paths.  Benjamin and Clay would have to buy tickets to the HOF to get in.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Doc

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I think having Reid as his OC is a huge advantage.  If/when McD gets canned, they should look for a top OC to be next HC.

You know Allen’s rookie year OC became a head coach and was coach of the year right?

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Your facts are feelings.  Benjamin barely squeaked-out a 1,000 yard season his rookie year (3 years before joining the Bills) and got worse as his career went on, playing his last season the year after he went to the Bills.  Hill got 1,000 yards his 2nd season in the NFL (Mahomes' rookie season) and has been putting up better numbers without Mahomes.  Both he and Kelce (who averaged ~1,100 yards/season with Smith and fewer targets) were already on HOF paths.  Benjamin and Clay would have to buy tickets to the HOF to get in.

You said a lot to not change a single thing I said. Who had a better start to their career after 2 years - Benjamin or Hill? What happened in Hill’s 3 year? When are the most successful years of Kelce’s career - pre or post Mahomes?

 

 

[FireChans]

46 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You realize Allen only played 8 more games than Mahomes did right?  To pretend that the talent around Mahomes and Allen to start their careers didn't factor into those 8 games is pretty ridiculous.  

 

None of that means Allen is "better" than Mahomes, it means Allens accomplishment is worthy of the credit he gets for it.  

8 games is a lot of games man. That’s like half a season extra. That’s near 10% of their total starts.

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

8 games is a lot of games man. That’s like half a season extra. That’s near 10% of their total starts.

 

You didnt answer my question though, and you are ignoring the fact that Josh still has 6 games to go.  By seasons end its MORE than likely, that even if you back out Allens first 8 games to match Mahomes that he will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes.  

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You know Allen’s rookie year OC became a head coach and was coach of the year right?

You said a lot to not change a single thing I said. Who had a better start to their career after 2 years - Benjamin or Hill? What happened in Hill’s 3 year? When are the most successful years of Kelce’s career - pre or post Mahomes?

 

Good point about Daboll.  His offenses in Jersey haven't been nearly as good as they were in Buffalo and it is terrible this year.  Meaning offensive personnel (also) matters.

 

And who cares how Benjamin started?  He was a bum by the time he got to the Bills and was soon gone from the league because he didn't put in the effort.  Meanwhile Hill's production has gotten even better without Mahomes.  So that means that Tua is better, right?

[JujuFish]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You didnt answer my question though, and you are ignoring the fact that Josh still has 6 games to go.  By seasons end its MORE than likely, that even if you back out Allens first 8 games to match Mahomes that he will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes.  

Mahomes after 80 games: 204. Allen after 80 games: 182

Mahomes after 88 games: 219. Allen after 88 games: 206

Mahomes in games 81-88: 15. Allen in games 81-88: 24

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. By the end of the season, Allen will have played, barring injury, 14 more games than Mahomes in his first six seasons. And why would you take away Allen's first X games? What's the argument there?

[Alphadawg7]

47 minutes ago, FireChans said:

8 games is a lot of games man. That’s like half a season extra. That’s near 10% of their total starts.

 

Here is the math:  Josh Allen has 6 more games to get finish his 6 seasons.  He is on pace for 45 total TD's this year (16 more than he has now).  

 

If Allen stays on pace and finishes with 45 he will have 221 for his career through 6 seasons.  Mahomes has 204, but Mahomes only played the final game of his rookie year and Allen played 12 games his rookie year.  If you back out the first 11 games of Allens Rookie year to match Mahomes, Allen will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes with 208 vs 204.

 

So this whole thing about Mahomes not playing his rookie year is really not a legit counter point to the validity of Allens record as he will likely not only officially own the record, but will also have produced more than Mahomes over their first 5 seasons and 1 rookie year game that everyone is using for Mahomes. 

 

And none of that means one QB is better than the other...it means Allens record is legit and even more impressive considering he was saddled with no talent around him on a gutted and rebuilding franchise for the first 2 years to start his career and was also a raw prospect coming in who didn't have the benefit of sitting and learning the game either.  

 

 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You know Allen’s rookie year OC became a head coach and was coach of the year right?

You said a lot to not change a single thing I said. Who had a better start to their career after 2 years - Benjamin or Hill? What happened in Hill’s 3 year? When are the most successful years of Kelce’s career - pre or post Mahomes?

 

 

 

If Allen stays on pace, if you remove all but the last game of Allens rookie year, he will still have more TD's than Mahomes while having only the one game of his rookie year just like Mahomes.  If that happens, how will you dispute the validity of Allens record then?

 

17 minutes ago, JujuFish said:

Mahomes after 80 games: 204. Allen after 80 games: 182

Mahomes after 88 games: 219. Allen after 88 games: 206

Mahomes in games 81-88: 15. Allen in games 81-88: 24

 

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. By the end of the season, Allen will have played, barring injury, 14 more games than Mahomes in his first six seasons. And why would you take away Allen's first X games? What's the argument there?

 

The argument is that Mahomes didn't play the first season...which is factually wrong.  He played the last game.  So I am removing Allens rookie year up to the last game JUST LIKE MAHOMES so their rookie years match.  And when you do, by seasons end, Allen will still have more TD's than Mahomes if he stays on the pace he is on now.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Superbowls are a TEAM accomplishment. 

 

You have to have a great offense, good defense (at least 15th) and good special teams.

 

And most importantly you have to have good coaching.

 

Sadly if Allen never wins a superbowl it will be because of coaching. Everything else is good enough

[JujuFish]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The argument is that Mahomes didn't play the first season...which is factually wrong.  He played the last game.  So I am removing Allens rookie year up to the last game JUST LIKE MAHOMES so their rookie years match.  And when you do, by seasons end, Allen will still have more TD's than Mahomes if he stays on the pace he is on now

I didn't argue that he didn't play his first season. In fact, my numbers include every single game he played in his first season, just like they do Allen's.  Removing Allen's games doesn't make anything sense.  Try again.

Edited November 20, 2023 by JujuFish