Outlook on McDermott if we turn it around

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I certainly don’t think I’m in that category.

 

However, I am in the “well paid coaches should be held accountable” category.

 

But just to be clear "held accountable" does not necessarily equal "fired". 

[Goin Breakdown]

I think we're hard on McD based on the drought era and some head scratcher calls that have been made by himself, but buffalo has not been this good in such a long time. We're kind of all or nothing. I'm not saying he's a great or even a good coach. I have no idea. I think we have Josh and that covers up a lot of issues we would have regardless of our coach. So I'm torn on how I feel. So basically I'd be happy for the team, the fans and the coaches of the team if they got turned around this season

[PBF81]

32 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Most coaches don’t talk smack about current coaches. 
 

Tomlin also caped for Canada. Then fired him. Lol

 

Generally speaking, few in the NFL talk serious personal smack about anyone else in their "fraternity."  

 

That's why what coaches, players, etc. say about one another is nearly meaningless.  They'll never be honestly critical with few exceptions.  

 

 

36 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I certainly don’t think I’m in that category.

 

However, I am in the “well paid coaches should be held accountable” category.

 

They certainly shouldn't be let off the hook for idiotic rookie errors years into their tenures.  

 

 

[PBF81]

33 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I think we're hard on McD based on the drought era and some head scratcher calls that have been made by himself, but buffalo has not been this good in such a long time. We're kind of all or nothing. I'm not saying he's a great or even a good coach. I have no idea. I think we have Josh and that covers up a lot of issues we would have regardless of our coach. So I'm torn on how I feel. So basically I'd be happy for the team, the fans and the coaches of the team if they got turned around this season

 

The question that needs to be asked, is whether or not McDimwit with Allen is getting out of the team with Allen what his peer predecessors got from their teams with QBs like Orton, Bledsoe, Taylor, Johnson, Edwards and Losman, who all finished with records from 7-9 to 9-7, several of which also nearly made the playoffs 

 

On a side note, unmentioned by anyone to date, in the six season prior to our playoff drought, we made the playoffs in four of the six seasons prior and since our Super Bowl years and Polian's firing, and we also lost those in the WC or Divisional Rounds. 

 

Now we have Allen, the standard needs to be significantly greater.  

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

The question that needs to be asked, is whether or not McDimwit with Allen is getting out of the team with Allen what his peer predecessors got from their teams with QBs like Orton, Bledsoe, Taylor, Johnson, Edwards and Losman, who all finished with records from 7-9 to 9-7, several of which also nearly made the playoffs 

 

On a side note, unmentioned by anyone to date, in the six season prior to our playoff drought, we made the playoffs in four of the six seasons prior and since our Super Bowl years and Polian's firing, and we also lost those in the WC or Divisional Rounds. 

 

Now we have Allen, the standard needs to be significantly greater.  

 

 

I think it was Chris simms that said Josh need to be demanding and tell the front office that they need to get him weapons. Much like manning and so on. Much like we were all debating g what the issue was with all the losing this year, I think it's everyone and everything just not meeting that standard. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Funny fact, Drew Brees threw 19, 17, 11 and 15 INTs when they missed the postseason those four years. He never threw double digit picks again and never missed the postseason again.

 

I would, and I am on record that I would rather have the Bills suck for 10 years and win once than make the playoffs 10 years straight and never win.

 

But, to me, a guy like Haurbaugh is just as good of a coach as McD. Maybe a little better or worse but in the same tier of coaching. Yes, he won 1 Super Bowl a decade ago when his QB had the most insane heroic postseason performance of all time. 
 

But, imo, McD has been just as good if not better since he’s been a coach in this league.

 

Put another way, if we fired McD and hired Harbaugh or Tomlin, to me that’s a complete lateral move. Despite their Super Bowl “DNA,” they didn’t win one with us and Harbaugh especially has never even come close repeating.
 

Also, Dan Campbell will win COTY.

Good call on Campbell, but Harbaugh is no worse than #2 this year. I disagree that it's a lateral move. Both Tomlin and Harbaugh are a full tier above McDermott. McD isn't even in Schottenheimer territory. His gameday coaching is just flat out terrible. He's propped up  by a great roster, including a top-flight QB and they seem to run a cohesive clubhouse. There isn't a single thing about him that's innovative though, and ultimately that's what you need to win it all.

Edited November 23, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I think it was Chris simms that said Josh need to be demanding and tell the front office that they need to get him weapons. Much like manning and so on. Much like we were all debating g what the issue was with all the losing this year, I think it's everyone and everything just not meeting that standard. 

 

Ultimately that stems directly from a lack of proper leadership however, from the top of course,  or for anyone proposing sincerity in the efforts otherwise, then an ignorance of what needs to be done.  In short, incompetence.  

 

Either way, 7 seasons in, an Allen QB'd team needs to have been much further along, particularly in the playoffs, than it's been and remains.  

 

 

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Good call on Campbell, but Harbaugh is no worse than #2 this year. I disagree that it's a lateral move. Both Tomlin and Harbaugh are a full tier above McDermott. McD isn't even in Schottenheimer territory. His gameday coaching is just flat out terrible. He's propped up  by a great roster, including a top-flight QB and they seem to run a cohesive clubhouse. There isn't a single thing about him that's innovative though, and ultimately that's what you need to win it all.

Harbaugh and Tomlin don’t have the success to back up that claim. 
 

McD has more playoff wins than the both of them COMBINED since 2014. And they both have great GM’s and FO’s.

 

I don’t want any part of that innovation. To my eye, they are both just pretty good coaches who usually do a good job and because they got lucky enough to win an SB in living memory, they are safe.

Edited November 23, 2023 by FireChans

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Harbaugh and Tomlin don’t have the success to back up that claim. 
 

McD has more playoff wins than the both of them COMBINED since 2014. And they both have great GM’s and FO’s.

 

I don’t want any part of that innovation. To my eye, they are both just pretty good coaches who usually do a good job and because they got lucky enough to win an SB in living memory, they are safe.

there's definitely luck involved in securing that tenure 

 

But if you don't have that...imo in order to be a top guy w job security that you need to be pretty faultless elsewhere

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

But just to be clear "held accountable" does not necessarily equal "fired". 

Agreed.

There have certainly been times where my emotions want him fired, but the more I look at who is out there, I struggle to find a replacement that is clearly better.

 

It would be a big gamble.

 

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

there's definitely luck involved in securing that tenure 

 

But if you don't have that...imo in order to be a top guy w job security that you need to be pretty faultless elsewhere

A LARGE element of luck.

 

Joe Flacco and Anquan Boldin turned into Montana and Rice. That wasn’t just good coaching lol

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

A LARGE element of luck.

 

Joe Flacco and Anquan Boldin turned into Montana and Rice. That wasn’t just good coaching lol

No doubt

 

But Allen was better for our run and still we didn't get out of divisional

[ToGoGo]

Most fans will move on and like McD if we win a SB. He’ll become a Buffalo legend. 
 

However, some will lurk in the shadows the rest of his career waiting for a down period so they can say I told you so. Nobody likes to admit they were wrong. Not when they were this wrong. 

[DCofNC]

On 11/20/2023 at 12:17 AM, Mikie2times said:

The better we perform in the short term, the more likely we will maintain the status quo in the long term. I don't see any way that isn't the case. It was already a long shot that we would part ways with McDermott after this year. It was going to take an implosion on the trajectory of what we had seen prior to Dorsey being canned. If they turn it around and threaten the playoffs it's not going to happen. 

 

Do some of you feel strongly enough about McDermott to actual want this thing to implode for the greater good? Do some of you feel if we can somehow get back on track to make the playoffs that it would alter your view on him as the coach next year? Curious what the outlook is on this. 

Let it burn this year if it means less clapping and more Wr drafting.

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Agreed.

There have certainly been times where my emotions want him fired, but the more I look at who is out there, I struggle to find a replacement that is clearly better.

 

It would be a big gamble.

 

Not sure that it's as big a gamble as is made out.  

 

Think about it, and keep in mind that up until this season there hasn't been much competition within our division since Allen got going, so with that in mind, how many coaches that we've had during our drought yearswouldn't have won our division during the past three seasons, and therefore simply made the playoffs?   

 

For sure we have underachieved in the playoffs, which with Allen many coaches could have and may have done.  

 

It's not fair to compare our coaches from the drought era that took us to 8-8 or 9-7 with schlep QBs, to McDimwit with Allen.  It wouldn't be any different If McD had Manuel, Edwards, or Losman, and it wouldn't be fair to compare him to a team that has Allen.  It's also a real stretch to think that he'd have had our team done what it has with Manuel, Edwards, Losman or even Bledsoe.  As it is, his offense scored approximately 100 points less than Ryan's did with Taylor's.  

 

It's a tough argument to suggest that taking one of our 9-7 drought era teams, swap out Orton or Bledsoe, or one of our 8-8 drought era teams and swap out Taylor, Bledsoe, or Johnson, with Allen, that they wouldn't have generated that extra win, two, or even three, maybe more, to get us into the playoffs.  

 

McD's offenses were ranked signficantly worse than Ryan's were, all with Taylor at QB.  His defenses were about the same although ranked slightly worse.  He also hasn't had to content with a Brady-led Pats in the seasons in which we won the divison.  

 

 

[PBF81]

27 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

Most fans will move on and like McD if we win a SB. He’ll become a Buffalo legend. 
 

However, some will lurk in the shadows the rest of his career waiting for a down period so they can say I told you so. Nobody likes to admit they were wrong. Not when they were this wrong. 

 

If he wins the Super Bowl, I doubt you'll find any fans that care beyond that.  We'll all be so ecstatic that it won't matter.  

 

We'll see what happens, but it would be wise to suspect that our defense is about to be exposed against the teams that we'll be facing from now until the end of the season, with the exception of New England.  ... which ironically already exposed it.  

 

We face the 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 8th Scoring Offenses coming up, the Chiefs at 14th, and the Pats that already hung 29 on us in their highest scoring game of the season.   

 

If we end up with a top-10 scoring defense after that it'll be damn near remarkable.  

 

 

[FireChans]

45 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not sure that it's as big a gamble as is made out.  

 

Think about it, and keep in mind that up until this season there hasn't been much competition within our division since Allen got going, so with that in mind, how many coaches that we've had during our drought yearswouldn't have won our division during the past three seasons, and therefore simply made the playoffs?   

 

For sure we have underachieved in the playoffs, which with Allen many coaches could have and may have done.  

 

It's not fair to compare our coaches from the drought era that took us to 8-8 or 9-7 with schlep QBs, to McDimwit with Allen.  It wouldn't be any different If McD had Manuel, Edwards, or Losman, and it wouldn't be fair to compare him to a team that has Allen.  It's also a real stretch to think that he'd have had our team done what it has with Manuel, Edwards, Losman or even Bledsoe.  As it is, his offense scored approximately 100 points less than Ryan's did with Taylor's.  

 

It's a tough argument to suggest that taking one of our 9-7 drought era teams, swap out Orton or Bledsoe, or one of our 8-8 drought era teams and swap out Taylor, Bledsoe, or Johnson, with Allen, that they wouldn't have generated that extra win, two, or even three, maybe more, to get us into the playoffs.  

 

McD's offenses were ranked signficantly worse than Ryan's were, all with Taylor at QB.  His defenses were about the same although ranked slightly worse.  He also hasn't had to content with a Brady-led Pats in the seasons in which we won the divison.  

 

 

The Bills went 9-7 exactly twice during the drought. 
 

Doug Marrone maybe. That’s it. 
 

I’m not sure any of the drought coaches find Poyer, Hyde, Milano and Tre and make them All-Pros. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by FireChans

[PBF81]

Just now, FireChans said:

The Bills went 9-7 exactly twice during the drought. 
 

Doug Marrone maybe. That’s it. 

 

OK, ... and how many times did we go 8-8?  

 

Who were the QBs in each of those seasons? 

 

 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

OK, ... and how many times did we go 8-8?  

 

Who were the QBs in each of those seasons? 

 

 

Lots of times with bad coaches who never got head coaching jobs again unless they got their own HC fired. Except Mularkey

Edited November 23, 2023 by FireChans

[KHAN]

Under McDermott this team has lost a half dozen games with late game debacles.

They've also lost way too many close games. That's on coaching IMO.

Sean is the guy that can reset a broken franchise and make them a functioning unit. But he's not a championship coach IMO.

 

He's Chuck Knox.