Jets @ Bills Postgame thread

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

It may be as simple as Allen needing to better understand the WHYs.  Allen's generation doesn't like to work for the sake of working - they want to understand why they're being asked to do something.  You need them to understand the goal and how the work relates to that goal in order to get their buy-in.  Maybe Brady can do a better job explaining to Allen the various WHYs, why we need to study tendencies on film all week, why we need to take the dump-offs for the first few quarters until the safeties move up, why we are running specific plays at specific times etc.  If Allen feels like he's "just running the plays that are called" and doesn't understand or believe in the WHYs, he's simply not going to be close to his best self.  

 

Just a theory.

A bad theory

[Coach Tuesday]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

A bad theory

 

Cool post.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Ultimately,  I think Dorsey mostly just got caught up in Josh stuff.   Josh injuries.  Josh drama.   Josh immaturity.  Josh f*cking off offseasons.   Players following Josh's sadness lead this season.   Josh is the sword that the OC will live or die by and they needed to do something to get Allen focused and excited about the project.

 

Maybe. But personally I think Dorsey's offense just wasn't built around Allen's strengths. Allen has never been a Tom Brady-esque "get to the line with 10 seconds on the clock, immediately diagnose the defense, and then throw the ball 2 seconds after the snap." I don't think anything about his process as a QB has changed. He has always been at his best when he can get to the line quickly and use motions to diagnose the defense and audible if necessary. Then post snap if things break down he can still create and turn it into a positive play, a lot of times even beyond what the play would have gotten if he had "correctly" run it. So my belief is that you have to let Josh be Josh, and I thought Dorsey on the contrary was trying to turn him into Joe Burrow. Daboll, for all of his bizarre strings of poor play calls, understood this.

 

A good example of Dorsey vs. Brady is their 4th and short play calls the past two weeks. I'm sure you've seen Dan Orlovsky's breakdown of our 4th and 2 against the Broncos. I've seen people criticize Allen for not immediately recognizing Kincaid as the best option, but again that has never been Allen's strength. He's a more than adequate reader of the defense but it is not his elite trait like it is for Burrow. So asking him to do that in a do or die situation is a bad play call by the OC, even if the correct answer is built into the play. This is where Dorsey ultimately failed. He called decent enough plays but they were built for a generic offense, not the one that he was actually running. Play calls never built off of each other either. It was like asking a computer to call plays based on down and distance and game situation, without any of the human element necessary to call plays according to the flow of the game and what your players do well.

 

Compare that 4th and 2 to Brady's 4th and 1 play call against the Jets. A simple naked bootleg that is practically an automatic 1st down with Allen as QB. It's easy - either the RB is open on the leak, or Allen uses his supreme physical gifts to convert with his legs. Easy.

 

Two 4th down play calls, both of which technically had the right answers built in, but one is very clearly superior to the other.

 

I just think Brady understands better than Dorsey did how you maximize Allen as a QB. I saw a stat that we ran more pre-snap motion than we've ran in like 2-3 years. We intentionally got the RBs involved as pass catchers, several times I am pretty sure they were the first read. We made it a point to use Davis and Harty to draw coverage away downfield instead of wasting downs by actually targeting them downfield. These simple changes made the offense look so much smoother on a drive to drive basis, I don't think you can deny that.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by HappyDays

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Cool post.

😂😂it didn't deserve anything more

 

The people like you and @GunnerBillwho treat every individual game as a symptom are hilarious to me. Not only because the NFL and the Bills in particular just do not operate that way, but because the predictability of the criticisms of 'he must have mental issues and/or dire romantic entanglements' and 'hE's NoT puTtiNg iN the oFfsEasoN wORk' in games the Bills lose are only matched by the softening of the narrative in games they win...wherein Allen actually does well...which must mean he has in your mind resolved these issues...for just one week until they lose again lol. You guys must be exhausted.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂it didn't deserve anything more

 

The people like you and @GunnerBillwho treat every individual game as a symptom are hilarious to me. Not only because the NFL and the Bills in particular just do not operate that way, but because the predictability of the criticisms of 'he must have mental issues and/or dire romantic entanglements' and 'hE's NoT puTtiNg iN the oFfsEasoN wORk' in games the Bills lose are only matched by the softening of the narrative in games they win...wherein Allen actually does well...which must mean he has in your mind resolved these issues...for just one week until they lose again lol. You guys must be exhausted.

I see you’ve got family in town for the holidays.  Good luck!

[Don Otreply]

On 11/19/2023 at 9:00 PM, Luka said:

 

Makes you wonder if Dorsey ever game planned for his opponent. Maybe he just wasn't able to pick up on cues and tendencies of other team's defenses. Brady seemed to have a lot of answers for the Jets #3 defense tonight.

Makes you wonder if Dorsey ever picked up on the cues and tendencies of his own offense let alone other team defenses,

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂it didn't deserve anything more

 

The people like you and @GunnerBillwho treat every individual game as a symptom are hilarious to me. Not only because the NFL and the Bills in particular just do not operate that way, but because the predictability of the criticisms of 'he must have mental issues and/or dire romantic entanglements' and 'hE's NoT puTtiNg iN the oFfsEasoN wORk' in games the Bills lose are only matched by the softening of the narrative in games they win...wherein Allen actually does well...which must mean he has in your mind resolved these issues...for just one week until they lose again lol. You guys must be exhausted.

 

Nope. I don't do that. I have never accused him of not putting in the off season work. I do, however, think that Josh's demenour all season has given the impression there are things off the football field going on. I thought that even after his best performance against the Dolphins when his presser was weird. I am not backing off it on the basis of one normal week. If that trend continues with Brady I will conclude something between he and Dorsey had broken down and it WAS a football thing.

[Warcodered]

 

 

[Warcodered]

 

 

[Warcodered]

 

 

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Maybe. But personally I think Dorsey's offense just wasn't built around Allen's strengths. Allen has never been a Tom Brady-esque "get to the line with 10 seconds on the clock, immediately diagnose the defense, and then throw the ball 2 seconds after the snap." I don't think anything about his process as a QB has changed. He has always been at his best when he can get to the line quickly and use motions to diagnose the defense and audible if necessary. Then post snap if things break down he can still create and turn it into a positive play, a lot of times even beyond what the play would have gotten if he had "correctly" run it. So my belief is that you have to let Josh be Josh, and I thought Dorsey on the contrary was trying to turn him into Joe Burrow. Daboll, for all of his bizarre strings of poor play calls, understood this.

 

A good example of Dorsey vs. Brady is their 4th and short play calls the past two weeks. I'm sure you've seen Dan Orlovsky's breakdown of our 4th and 2 against the Broncos. I've seen people criticize Allen for not immediately recognizing Kincaid as the best option, but again that has never been Allen's strength. He's a more than adequate reader of the defense but it is not his elite trait like it is for Burrow. So asking him to do that in a do or die situation is a bad play call by the OC, even if the correct answer is built into the play. This is where Dorsey ultimately failed. He called decent enough plays but they were built for a generic offense, not the one that he was actually running. Play calls never built off of each other either. It was like asking a computer to call plays based on down and distance and game situation, without any of the human element necessary to call plays according to the flow of the game and what your players do well.

 

Compare that 4th and 2 to Brady's 4th and 1 play call against the Jets. A simple naked bootleg that is practically an automatic 1st down with Allen as QB. It's easy - either the RB is open on the leak, or Allen uses his supreme physical gifts to convert with his legs. Easy.

 

Two 4th down play calls, both of which technically had the right answers built in, but one is very clearly superior to the other.

 

I just think Brady understands better than Dorsey did how you maximize Allen as a QB. I saw a stat that we ran more pre-snap motion than we've ran in like 2-3 years. We intentionally got the RBs involved as pass catchers, several times I am pretty sure they were the first read. We made it a point to use Davis and Harty to draw coverage away downfield instead of wasting downs by actually targeting them downfield. These simple changes made the offense look so much smoother on a drive to drive basis, I don't think you can deny that.

 

 

100%.  This is the stuff I have been saying all year.  You too.  We have been on the same page.  

 

Seen this on MSN...

 

Brady said he had a specific, but simple plan, for his quarterback.

“I just wanted him to be Josh Allen,” Brady told reporters Monday night. “The fun, the excitement that he kind of plays with — like I feed off of it. At the end of the day, man, this is a game we’re supposed to have fun. I have a ton of fun coaching, I know our guys have a lot of fun playing. . . . Not that he wasn’t having fun before, but I think you saw it a little bit last night. I think the guys obviously fed off of it as well.”

Brady, who was the offensive coordinator for LSU in 2019, is just getting used to the NFL. He spent two years with the Carolina Panthers, then moved to Buffalo as the QBs coach last season. Now, he’s the interim offensive coordinator and the Bills have new-found life in the playoff race.

Brady kept the Bills offense in the shotgun for the first 18 snaps. Then he began calling more play action, with Allen under center. It all worked. The 32 points represented Buffalo’s most in a game since they beat Miami, 48-20, win over Miam Oct. 8. Conversely, the Jets haven’t allowed so many points since early December, 2021.

Brady’s first game, and the offense in general, pleased McDermott.

“I think more than anything, the intangibles of the offense started to show up in the second half.

McDermott said, acknowledging the team’s “effort” and “unselfish play.”

“And I think that to me is the biggest step that I saw (Sunday).” he said.

[Heathcliff]

Anyone of you other old folks have flashbacks of Andre Reed on the Shakir TD?

[Warcodered]

 

[CNYfan]

Where do I find snap counts for the Jets game?

[Simon]

40 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

Where do I find snap counts for the Jets game?

 

Anything for the Jester.......

 

 

Go here

 

Scroll to the bottom and click on Download Game Book (PDF)

Snap counts will be the last listing in the PDF file

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Anything for the Jester.......

 

 

Go here

 

Scroll to the bottom and click on Download Game Book (PDF)

Snap counts will be the last listing in the PDF file

 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2023-snap-counts.htm

 

Another source.  You can see full season or click a player for game by game

Edited November 22, 2023 by Scott7975

[Saxum]

On 11/19/2023 at 8:41 PM, BillsFan130 said:

Agreed. That hit by Gilliam really set the tempo 

 

 

[Warcodered]

 

[Warcodered]

 

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

Very odd colored Bills jerseys in picture by Puke Fantasy Football.