Tush Push/Brotherly Shove/Rugby Scrums

[LabattBlue]

Does the NFL make it illegal to push the QB on a sneak, or even go one step further and avoid these rugby style scrums for any ball carrier?

Edited November 18, 2023 by LabattBlue

[ProcessImproverMan]

Goodell and the NFL have a history of changing the game for the worse when a star protected player gets hurt (see Rodgers years ago against the Vikings which influenced the body weight rule). I expect someone to get hurt during this and the rule to change. The Eagles play the Chiefs this week. If a Chiefs player gets hurt, expect rule change.

[peterpan]

Maybe if it’s 4th and 1 they’ll just give the O a first down 

[reddogblitz]

I think they should but don't think they will. They like it.

[Rc2catch]

I feel like defenses are already so hindered. If defenses cannot push them back because of forward progress I feel it should be the same the other way around. 
I don’t care about the tush push, Philly don’t even need it. Ban it tomorrow they still probably convert over 90% and it’s not like anyone else is having that much success doing it. 

[MPT]

They probably will, but not until someone gets injured. Sooner or later, defensive coordinators will get smart and start telling their biggest, meanest dudes to try and time the snap and fly over the offensive line into Hurts. If they're offside, who cares? Same result. And one of these big, mean dudes is going to barrel into Hurts' legs before the snap or clean his clock when he tries to dive over the pile.

 

When one of the faces of the NFL gets injured doing this play, they'll ban it the following off-season. Until then, it's creating a lot of controversy and the NFL loves controversy more than it loves football.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

They better not make it illegal. The more scrums the better

 

 

[Old Coot]

7 hours ago, peterpan said:

Maybe if it’s 4th and 1 they’ll just give the O a first down

That would be the whole 9 yards

[TAinLack.]

11 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I feel like defenses are already so hindered. If defenses cannot push them back because of forward progress I feel it should be the same the other way around. 
I don’t care about the tush push, Philly don’t even need it. Ban it tomorrow they still probably convert over 90% and it’s not like anyone else is having that much success doing it. 

Interestingly, in the Maryland vs Michigan game yesterday - Maryland while inside the 5-yard line brought in their 6'6" tight end to play QB and was supported by 2 running backs tush pushing his azz into the end zone 3 times.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

11 hours ago, peterpan said:

Maybe if it’s 4th and 1 they’ll just give the O a first down 

"This 'close enough' first down brought to you by your Toyota Dealers in your hometown."

[Chandler#81]

I asked the wife if I could try the Tush Push with her.

 

 

I slept on the couch last night… 🤷‍♂️

[machine gun kelly]

Chandman, rookie mistake.  😂🏈🏋️‍♀️

 

As far as the scrum, I was fine at first with the play, but several teams have tried it and some guys injured.  Then I was listening to Movin the Chains and Pat made a salient point.  He had Paul Alexander on, and another Rugby guy on different days, and the risk to a neck injury is a real possibility.

 

Lately, refs have been more active in calling encroachment before this play as the linemen cheat the line.  That’s their current plan, so I did say yes, make it illegal.  I don’t ever want to see any player get a snapped neck.  That would be horrible for the sport.

 

It’s not that I don’t appreciate the physicality of the sport, but there is also a balance with safety.  I don’t think the Eagles are cheating.  I also am fine with the traditional QB sneak as Brady embarrassed teams forever, but it wasn’t a rush push.  He knew how to get low quickly and get that last two feet.  I know everyone hates Brady, but he was a master of the sneak.

[Boatdrinks]

The league has already told Refs to watch for and call Guards for Offside on tush push plays. Seems they think it’s too easy and bad for the game. This probably bears watching in the offseason. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Unless it's recently changed and I missed it, it's been against the rules to aide a runner by pulling them forward from the front. I don't understand why that would be a foul but pushing from behind isn't. And that goes for more than the Brotherly Tush Shove. 

 

That said, the Shove is 100% defendable. You stop it on 1st down and 2nd down and don't let them get into 3rd or 4th and short. That's basic football. 

[Low Positive]

20 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Unless it's recently changed and I missed it, it's been against the rules to aide a runner by pulling them forward from the front. I don't understand why that would be a foul but pushing from behind isn't. And that goes for more than the Brotherly Tush Shove. 

 

That said, the Shove is 100% defendable. You stop it on 1st down and 2nd down and don't let them get into 3rd or 4th and short. That's basic football. 

They changed the language in the rulebook to allow the pushing (not pulling) of another offensive player in 2005. I can't find a reason for why they made that change.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, Low Positive said:

They changed the language in the rulebook to allow the pushing (not pulling) of another offensive player in 2005. I can't find a reason for why they made that change.

 

Which is what I don't understand. It's really the same action but one is ok and the other isn't. I actually think the pushing may be less safe than a pull as you're pretty much locking a guys back into place. 

[Low Positive]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Which is what I don't understand. It's really the same action but one is ok and the other isn't. I actually think the pushing may be less safe than a pull as you're pretty much locking a guys back into place. 

I can't find any justification for the rule change in 2005. What I did find was this article (from Utah of all places) arguing that it's a modern version of the old wedge play from the early days of American football and used to actually kill people: https://www.deseret.com/2023/1/20/23563232/nfl-rule-that-allows-players-to-push-ball-carriers-forward-went-wrong-direction

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, ProcessImproverMan said:

Goodell and the NFL have a history of changing the game for the worse when a star protected player gets hurt (see Rodgers years ago against the Vikings which influenced the body weight rule). I expect someone to get hurt during this and the rule to change. The Eagles play the Chiefs this week. If a Chiefs player gets hurt, expect rule change.

 

Goodell isn't a rule maker/changer...

[frostbitmic]

Ban it ... We need more things forbidden in the league to throw flags for.

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

I asked the wife if I could try the Tush Push with her.

 

I slept on the couch last night… 🤷‍♂️

 

Scoring isn't guaranteed on that play.