McDermott weird comments about Josh Allen

[Straight Hucklebuck]

33 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Step 1: fire McDermott amd all offensive staff.

2. Hire an offensive minded HC implementing a WCO.

 

Here here!

 

Signed. 

 

Not every process can be driven to 100% yield.

 

What are the odds that McDermott conducts a thorough search for an OC and gets a cutting edge mind in here?

 

The best OCs are going to land Head Coaching positions.

 

Thanks Sean for all your contributions. 
 

Holding onto 4-5 in the Playoffs and a 2017 Playoff birth is not aggressive enough. 

[Billzgobowlin]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

He gets a pass because he’s not drafting in the top 15? I disagree.

 

One could honestly make an argument that, outside of Josh (1 player), Whaleys last draft (in terms of impact players) was equal to or better than all of Beane’s drafts combined.

 

In that last draft Whaley picked Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano. 

If you are talking about upper tier players like All Pros in the first few years drafted I would say yes.  Those guys are usually only at the top of the draft.  Also Whaley had nothing to do with Tre White or Matt Milano.  That's not his style, that's all McDermott.  If you doubt that look at the rest of Whaley's drafts

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Here here!

 

Signed. 

 

Not every process can be driven to 100% yield.

 

What are the odds that McDermott conducts a thorough search for an OC and gets a cutting edge mind in here?

 

The best OCs are going to land Head Coaching positions.

 

Thanks Sean for all your contributions. 
 

Holding onto 4-5 in the Playoffs and a 2017 Playoff birth is not aggressive enough. 

Sounds like Andy Reid in Philly...

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

I don’t think Allen is wired this way. He seems to have a lot of interests outside of football that fulfills his life, especially in the offseason. Football seems like a career and not a passion that drives him to try and be the best. 

 

There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a well rounded way to live life. 

Yes, nothing wrong with it, but it's not ideal wiring for a quarterback.   Diggs doesn't want a QB who doesn't share Diggs's passion.  And it's the unusual well-rounded person who drives himself to excellence.   

 

If the fire isn't burning hot inside him, then Josh almost certainly is the wrong guy. 

 

Tom Landry wanted to start Craig Morton, because he had all the tools, and he stayed on script.   He didn't like Staubach because he was less talented and his passion for playing took him off script sometime.  Staubach's passion got results that Morton couldn't (until one season when it all fell together in Denver).  

 

There has to be fire.

[Einstein]

27 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

If you are talking about upper tier players like All Pros in the first few years drafted I would say yes.  Those guys are usually only at the top of the draft. 

That really only applies to QB's.

57% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl WR's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 47)

64% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl RB's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 45)
57% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl TE's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 42)

64% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl G's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 60)

63% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl C's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 49)
52% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl LB's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 36)
57% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl Safeties drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 49)

Only 28% of  All-Pro/Pro-Bowl QB's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 10)
 

27 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Also Whaley had nothing to do with Tre White or Matt Milano.  If you doubt that look at the rest of Whaley's drafts

You could say the same for the rest of McD's drafts... He never got another Tre or Dawkins or Milano again. 
 

27 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Sounds like Andy Reid in Philly...

 

Not really.

Reid had been to 4 straight Championship games and a Super Bowl by the same point as McD is in his career.

[Shaw66]

58 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I'm getting a little senile, but I could have sworn I made a comment about this.  A little differently I think but basically the same meaning and you told me of course people would want to be OC here.  Did you change your thought on that?

I remember saying that.   Have I changed my mind?   Maybe a little, but I really was just asking the question, because I don't know.   

 

In general, I'd say that if I'm a position coach somewhere and McDermott called and asked me to be the OC, I'd jump at it.  If I have confidence in myself, my thinking is I can do the job AND I get Josh Allen.

 

But today, having read things here and thought about the situation, I can imagine that if I'm one of the hot assistants coming up, a McVay or someone with that kind of buzz about him, I'm looking to be a head coach, and maybe I worry that things are screwed up in Buffalo and things outside my control might limit what I can do there. 

 

I don't know if that's true at all, but I can see that a smart guy coming up would want to consider that.  

 

Two years ago, when Daboll left, pretty much every talented up-and-coming assistant would have grabbed the job Dorsey got.  Today, it's not the same slam dunk. 

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

I’m not sold on those guys at the next level. There’s no way I’d move on from Allen for any college prospects. Allen is athletically gifted and he has shown he can be great at the highest levels. Let’s work on the consistency aspect and all will be good. Oh a new coaching staff wouldn’t hurt either. 

Allen has all the ability needed to get back on track and I expect him to do that. 

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Allen has all the ability needed to get back on track and I expect him to do that. 

 

Before Josh was carrying the franchise. For the first time, he needs some in the franchise to carry him, to help get back to his best. Are there the right people within OBD to do so?

McDermott has been trying to change his natural approach.

Dorsey has been sacked, but was struggling before.

Brady has been his QB coach during the wobble.

Diggs, who appeared to be one of his closest friends, seemingly has issues with him.

 

I do wonder what the support structure is for Josh within the Bills right now.

[Billzgobowlin]

33 minutes ago, Einstein said:

That really only applies to QB's.

57% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl WR's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 47)

64% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl RB's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 45)
57% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl TE's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 42)

64% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl G's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 60)

63% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl C's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 49)
52% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl LB's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 36)
57% of All-Pro/Pro-Bowl Safeties drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 49)

Only 28% of  All-Pro/Pro-Bowl QB's drafted over the last 10 years has been drafted in Round 2 or later (Median: Pick 10)
 

You could say the same for the rest of McD's drafts... He never got another Tre or Dawkins or Milano again. 
 

 

Not really.

Reid had been to 4 straight Championship games and a Super Bowl by the same point as McD is in his career.

My point is they don't become Allpros right away.  They take a couple of years.  Benford and Bernard will be there.  I really do hope you don't think Whaley had anything to do with that last draft.  If he did do you think he wouldn't have a job in the league right now?  Also you don't just drop a highly successful coach without a good reason.  

[Scott7975]

43 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I remember saying that.   Have I changed my mind?   Maybe a little, but I really was just asking the question, because I don't know.   

 

In general, I'd say that if I'm a position coach somewhere and McDermott called and asked me to be the OC, I'd jump at it.  If I have confidence in myself, my thinking is I can do the job AND I get Josh Allen.

 

But today, having read things here and thought about the situation, I can imagine that if I'm one of the hot assistants coming up, a McVay or someone with that kind of buzz about him, I'm looking to be a head coach, and maybe I worry that things are screwed up in Buffalo and things outside my control might limit what I can do there. 

 

I don't know if that's true at all, but I can see that a smart guy coming up would want to consider that.  

 

Two years ago, when Daboll left, pretty much every talented up-and-coming assistant would have grabbed the job Dorsey got.  Today, it's not the same slam dunk. 

 

I sort of feel the same but maybe for different reason. I agree that last year probably any up and coming guy would have killed for the job.  This year I dunno.  Maybe they still would because we don't truly know the situation.  Can only speculate based off what we hear, read, and see.  I never know when to trust writers either because sometimes I think they are full of crap.  Other times, maybe they are on to something.

 

The reason I asked the question was because of McD.  First, we got a report of a Daboll and McD rift.  We got that report even before Daboll got hired by the Giants. It said he wanted out to the point that he would take a lateral job. We see that rift at the end of the Giants game. The two couldn't get far enough away from each other. We see reports that basically say McD wants this ancient history run game and then let Daboll do what he wanted a year later and the next year he pulled back from that going back to wanting this ancient school of football.  It could be what caused that rift.  Me putting pieces together, I think Daboll and McD have different philosophies and I think McD puts not winning certain things on Daboll.  Maybe even put that 13 seconds on Daboll because of "scoring too fast."  We have heard comments from McD that make me think this, so it isn't just reporter writing.

 

Then this year I get the feel that part of Josh head space problem (and I do believe Josh's problem is all mental) is because of McD.  We hear things like he wants the offense to be run his way.  We can clearly see Josh doesn't run the football anymore, he is very hesitant, he doesn't look like he is having fun at all.  Now maybe McD just wants Josh to be smart with running and slide and get out of bounds, but maybe McD just isn't getting that message across in the right way.  I personally think that Josh has been badgered by that so much that it is in his head and its affecting his game.  I also think McD really gets on him for the INTs and its affecting his game.  I'm not saying that Josh doesn't need to be smarter or that he doesn't need to tone down the turnovers some but it needs to be taught to him the right way. His head is just not right.  You can see that on his face every game, so I don't think it is.  Maybe McD's message is just getting old at this point.

 

I could be wrong, but I feel like McD is meddling in this offense too much and in Josh's head too much and that is a big part of the problem.  If I am right, I can't see an upcoming coach wanting to deal with that.  If it is true then they would know about it.  I think McD is a good coach.  I also think he is respected around the league, but I don't think an upcoming potential top OC would want to deal with that.

 

Too be clear though, I have no problem with a head coach wanting the team to be run his way.  He is the head coach.  He should want it run the way he thinks it should be run.  I also think that a coach should identify what is the right way.  I don't think McD has.  Yes, I think we need to be more effective running the football and have the capability to do so when needed.  Yes, I think Josh needs to be smarter on some runs.  Yes, I think Josh needs to be smarter with the football.  No, I don't think those things are being taught properly.

 

For all we know McD might not even be here next season.  If he is, he might just hand Joe B. the job if he does well and all this might be moot. Personally, I think this would be the right year to move on from McD if it is even on the fence.  We have to retool next season and it's better a new coach gets to do that in his vision than having to come in here with another coaches vision on the roster.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Scott7975

[Einstein]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

I sort of feel the same but maybe for different reason. I agree that last year probably any up and coming guy would have killed for the job.  This year I dunno. 

Agree with you.

 

Im sure most up and coming guys would love to work with Allen.

 

Not so sure about wanting to work with McD though.

They would be the 4th OC in 8 seasons.

[Cash]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Agree with you.

 

Im sure most up and coming guys would love to work with Allen.

 

Not so sure about wanting to work with McD though.

They would be the 4th OC in 8 seasons.

How does that compare to his peers? It doesn’t seem crazy high to me. 

[Einstein]

34 minutes ago, Cash said:

How does that compare to his peers? It doesn’t seem crazy high to me. 

 

A new OC every 2 years (on average) doesn't seem high to you? It does to me.

The problem is that most of his peers (high-end coaches), ARE the offensive mind of the team.

Reid - Offensive guru

McVay - Offensive guru

Shanahan - Offensive guru

Payton - Offensive guru

Pederson - Offensive guru

LaFleur - Offensive guy
Sirianni - Offense guy

McDaniel - Offensive guru

Taylor - Offensive guy

Caroll is a defensive guy. He has had 3 offensive coordinators in 14 years.
Tomlin is a defensive guy. He has had 4 offensive coordinators in 16 years.

Belichick is a defensive guy.  He has had 4 offensive coordinators in 22 years.

Only successful guy I can think of with a lot of changes are Vrabel and Harbaugh.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, nothing wrong with it, but it's not ideal wiring for a quarterback.   Diggs doesn't want a QB who doesn't share Diggs's passion.  And it's the unusual well-rounded person who drives himself to excellence.   

 

If the fire isn't burning hot inside him, then Josh almost certainly is the wrong guy. 

 

Tom Landry wanted to start Craig Morton, because he had all the tools, and he stayed on script.   He didn't like Staubach because he was less talented and his passion for playing took him off script sometime.  Staubach's passion got results that Morton couldn't (until one season when it all fell together in Denver).  

 

There has to be fire.

 

Allen, who, by the way, is at an earlier stage of his career, is a better QB than Diggs is a receiver. End of subject.

[section122]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I remember saying that.   Have I changed my mind?   Maybe a little, but I really was just asking the question, because I don't know.   

 

In general, I'd say that if I'm a position coach somewhere and McDermott called and asked me to be the OC, I'd jump at it.  If I have confidence in myself, my thinking is I can do the job AND I get Josh Allen.

 

But today, having read things here and thought about the situation, I can imagine that if I'm one of the hot assistants coming up, a McVay or someone with that kind of buzz about him, I'm looking to be a head coach, and maybe I worry that things are screwed up in Buffalo and things outside my control might limit what I can do there. 

 

I don't know if that's true at all, but I can see that a smart guy coming up would want to consider that.  

 

Two years ago, when Daboll left, pretty much every talented up-and-coming assistant would have grabbed the job Dorsey got.  Today, it's not the same slam dunk. 

 

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

Agree with you.

 

Im sure most up and coming guys would love to work with Allen.

 

Not so sure about wanting to work with McD though.

They would be the 4th OC in 8 seasons.

The other side of that coin though is if you think mcd might be in trouble is it makes the job more appealing. 

 

If mcd gets fired midway through 24 and you have the offense playing well, it is likely your job.

[AlfaBill]

Josh put in the work to improve during the off season his 1st few seasons. He played well and significantly improved every year

 

the last 2 seasons he hasn’t , instead focusing on enjoying life, playing golf, whiskey, etc. And guess what? He’s regressed. 
To be a true great, he needs to want it even at the expense of enjoying life. If not, expect more of the same. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:50 PM, Bob Jones said:

I don't care who the OC is, or how "bad" your team is, if you're making $40 mil A YEAR (6 months, really), and you're playing a game, and you're not happy just to go out there and play, you need professional, mental help.

Super hot take

[CodeMonkey]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:42 PM, HappyDays said:

This all sounds pretty bizarre:

 

Ealier this week McDermott was asked about firing Dorsey and said "OC is a leadership position." Is it possible he felt that Dorsey wasn't getting Allen and the other offensive players into the right mindset and energy? And this more than play calling is what led to the firing?

My belief is at this point he is looking for absolutely anything to turn this season around that isn't him getting fired.

[AlfaBill]

1 hour ago, AlfaBill said:

Josh put in the work to improve during the off season his 1st few seasons. He played well and significantly improved every year

 

the last 2 seasons he hasn’t , instead focusing on enjoying life, playing golf, whiskey, etc. And guess what? He’s regressed. 
To be a true great, he needs to want it even at the expense of enjoying life. If not, expect more of the same. 

Vomit emoji not withstanding. This is true

[Richard Noggin]

12 hours ago, Luka said:

 

I mean the 13 second Bills had a Super Bowl winning offense. That side of the ball was absolutely unbelievable for most of that year. 

 

 

I remember it differently. They had a Super Bowl-winning offense in the playoffs (and even so, against the Chiefs, had a signature 3rd quarter stagnation when they suddenly started running the ball unimaginatively, and ineffectively, for two straight drives -- who does that sound like?). Those two games , however, really effed with offensive expectations moving forward, and seemingly revised the real history of that 2021 regular season offense. The Bills offense was NOT "absolutely unbelievable for most of that year."

 

12 hours ago, Luka said:

 

Diggs has become a toxic and polarizing figure on the team. The mellow drama that has played out with him this offseason and still continues into this week, should have been shut down immediately. But now his brother has created a rift between the franchise quarterback and not just his #1 receiver, but who he considers his best friend. And anyone who's ever held a job knows, these kinds of incidents at work definitely create tension. Everyone will have their own opinion about the situation. And the incidents with Josh on the sidelines. Are those truly harmless interactions? While a great player, I would not think that these would go unchecked by the head coach. The reports this offseason that Diggs may not even report for training camp eluded to a rift between coaches and players, Diggs clearly the figurehead in this situation.

 

 

You don't have any non-circumstantial/conjectured evidence for any of what you've typed above. Diggs himself has directly, and I'd argue, convincingly, addressed this narrative on several occasions, including as recently as this week. If anything, Diggs' issues are understandably with coaching. Remember "Don't listen to him!"? (Also, I'm just not super concerned about social media s#!tposting from a noisy and bored guy who has publicly wanted his big brother as a teammate for a while now.) 

 

12 hours ago, Luka said:

 

In the press conference, the mentioning of what a great relationship he has with Terry is what should worry all of us the most. He's basically saying to the media, don't bother asking about my status with the company or if I'll be fired, because he knows he won't be. Anyone that questions McDermott has been steamrolled right out of the building. Two very influential coaches in two consecutive offseasons. He puts Ken Dorsey, his guy, in as offensive coordinator. He no longer has an assistant head coach or a defensive coordinator. He already had a great deal of influence when it came to the draft and personnel decisions off the field.

 

This team is more McDermott's than it ever has been. These press conferences will become more and more unsettled if the team continues to flounder because he has truly run out of scapegoats. Talking about "what's wrong with Josh" might be foreshadowing to who's going to bear the burden of McDermott's failures as a coach and leader this offseason.

 

I'm with you here, for sure. McDermott is the consistent fixture through all these insane collapses. And he seems to operate with impunity. (One could convincingly argue that recent blunders wouldn't have been possible if the offense had only "held serve" or played up to a modicum of its potential, but that in no way absolves the head coach of his (and his staff's) situational choke jobs.)

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

 

The other side of that coin though is if you think mcd might be in trouble is it makes the job more appealing. 

 

If mcd gets fired midway through 24 and you have the offense playing well, it is likely your job.

Great point!  But if McD is in trouble, you go there and make the offense hum, and they win a Super Bowl, McD gets extended.  You still get a HC job, but not with Allen.

2 hours ago, McDeerInTheHeadlights said:

 

Allen, who, by the way, is at an earlier stage of his career, is a better QB than Diggs is a receiver. End of subject.

Well, I agree with that statement, but if you're going to have a winning football team, you're going to have dogs on the team, and the dogs want a dog to lead them.  

 

And, in fact, until this season, Allen's teammates said he was a dog.