Cover 1 Josh's INTs

[Man with No Name]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

They were actually entirely different concepts. It's been explained better by others on here, but essentially the deep out route by Harty is a route designed to beat the exact quarters coverage Denver was playing there. It was not a high/low read like the one Allen misread against the Bengals.

 

Two issues caused the 2nd INT:

1) Allen didn't throw the ball far enough towards the sideline.

2) Harty's route was disgustingly bad and made it easy for the defender to undercut the pass.

 

I am less concerned about INTs caused by less than ideal throws than I am INTs where Allen misread the coverage or threw a stupid dangerous pass. Here he correctly identified the defensive coverage and threw the right route. The execution from him and Harty was just not good enough.

 

that int looked so bad, but I always admit I don't fully grasp what im watching. would love to see some sort of drawing breakdown that shows what harty did and where he threw the ball, versus where harty should have been and where the ball should have been. watching on tv, it just looks like the dumbest choice possibly imaginable. 

[Charles Romes]

I think the Jags added a new wrinkle to the two high look for defending the Bills.  They seemed to be baiting Allen to taking wide open check downs that looked like 8 yard gains but were so predictable they were able to converge and limit them to 3-5 yard gains. 

[Nextmanup]

The less intelligent you are, the more you are inclined to see the world as a simple to understand, black and white universe.

 

In reality, it's all a complex shading of gray.

 

Our problems DEFINITELY fall on Dorsey.  They also DEFINITELY fall on Josh, and several OTHER factors as well.

 

The "broken offense" will continue with the new OC.  I'm not sure much will even be different with Brady.

 

The good news is there is still A LOT OF FOOTBALL left to be played this year, and it stays a broken ugly mess from now until the finish line, we might just be able to move on from McD.

 

 

[Malazan]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:07 PM, Maine-iac said:

It's the second and 10 throws 15 yards down the field into coverage with guys open underneath that I wish would change.  Until you make them pay taking the underneath stuff they're never going to come out of 2 high looks.  There's so much All 22 film out there now and from several different sources breaking down the film and they all show pretty much the same thing.  There's also something to be said for drops and fumbles ending drives that might have ended in Allen TD's kind of skewing the explosive plays that are largely what Josh is missing at this point.

 

Modern defenses are not the 3 and out machines we recall from yesteryear. The philosophy now is to let the other team rack up yards and stats. If they want to score, they have to march down the field and stay disciplined and mistake free the whole way. Defenses have embraced that a mistake on offense is much more damaging than a mistake on defense as long as that mistake is not a big play down field. 

 

When Dorsey was hired, I expressed concern that he and Josh both are guys who like the 'big play' and I wasn't sure Dorsey would be a good complement to Allen because I didn't think either one could remain disciplined and take what the defense gave them consistently play after, drive after drive, game after game. They get impatient and will try to force a 'big play' even if one isn't there. 

 

I was mistaken in thinking that they needed to get Allen to change and accept taking the underneath stuff not as an outlet after several seconds when there's no chance at a big play (and he's been amazing when he does it). I had thought that he'd eventually embrace it. However, It's not in his nature to be that sort of QB and they need to adapt an offense an offense that Allen will run and find a way to deal with the difficulties that if they can't get guys open on the 15+ yard routes that's he going to force it so they need to find someone who's plays don't end up with multiple receivers within a couple yards of each other way more frequently than they should be..

[Shaw66]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:29 PM, Scott7975 said:

 

I dont think they are going to come out of their looks at all.  They have the deep ball covered and other D is having a fairly easy job covering the underneath pretty tight.  I know, I know, that guy on the screenshot is open but people have a hard time understanding how fast the defender is actually going to get there.  McD's defense has made a living off of swarming to the ball.  Not so much this year as the tackling has been piss poor, but he has.

 

Yes, the underneath stuff needs to happen but they give that stuff up for a reason.  No team is going to consistently move the ball 80 yards 3-5 yards at a time.  Too much potential for mistakes.  Especially with the slow ass people we got that can't really get much separation to begin with.  Josh running the ball or even us picking up 7-8 yards a carry consistently might get teams out of it but right now I don't think thats going to happen.

I agree with your take on this, and it's why I've been complaining about Dorsey for a while.  If they're taking away the deep ball, and they've shut down the 15-yard wideout Josh used to live on, and if they're covering the underneath stuff, too, then their are opportunities to attach SOMEWHERE.   It isn't possible for the back seven to cover sideline to sideline, line of scrimmage to the end zone.   We saw nothing from Dorsey that suggested he could see where the openings were or that he could design routes that would punish the defense for playing the way they do.  

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

 

I was mistaken in thinking that they needed to get Allen to change and accept taking the underneath stuff not as an outlet after several seconds when there's no chance at a big play (and he's been amazing when he does it). I had thought that he'd eventually embrace it. However, It's not in his nature to be that sort of QB and they need to adapt an offense an offense that Allen will run and find a way to deal with the difficulties that if they can't get guys open on the 15+ yard routes that's he going to force it so they need to find someone who's plays don't end up with multiple receivers within a couple yards of each other way more frequently than they should be..

No you weren't mistaken.

 

The basic rule of good offense, I'm convinced, is make every play a positive play.  Throwing the pass you can complete 80+% of the time for 5 yards and a possible run after catch is a much better play than throwing a pass you can complete 50% of the time for 15 yards.  Josh has to understand.   Yes, there are situations that demand something else, but most of the game, that kind of decision making is what wins. 

 

The Bills were winning early in the season, and Josh had completion percentages in the 70s and 80s.   He can do it, but the coaches need to give him the open guys to throw to and the reads so that he can make those kinds of decisions.  

 

And this is where Josh's running comes in.  I've come to the conclusion that the Bills don't need the 800-yard rushing Josh, but he needs to have a couple of good runs a game, some designed, just to give the defense another element that makes the Bills offense truly multi-faceted.  Josh needs to get down and avoid injury, but he needs to run often enough so that every play the defense has that threat in the back of their mind.   With that added element, any good coordinator should be able to create route trees that generate open receivers on a regular basis.   Josh needs those trees, and he needs to know how to recognize where the open guy is.  That's all on the offensive coordinator.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:11 AM, sven233 said:

You want to see Allen's INT count go down?  Let him run more.  Get back to the designed runs (5 a game would be enough) and tell him he has the green light to scramble anytime he sees an opening. 

 

Right now, teams are not respecting his running ability anymore because they see that he isn't doing it nearly the way he used to.  And because of this, teams feel real comfortable sinking into coverage and just waiting for him to make a mistake.  He may as well be any statue QB you want to name back there.  Sure, he moves out of the pocket to buy time, but he isn't using his legs as a true weapon and teams know this.  There are several times this season where you watch the tape and see a chance for him on a 3rd and medium to just take off and pick it up with his legs, yet it VERY rarely happens anymore and teams again know this.

 

All you have to do is put that fear back into defenses that at any moment he'll burn you for 40 yards or a critical first down.  They will start having to creep back up and that will in turn loosen up the coverage down the field and create more openings and opportunities.  I mean, most of this season, teams are not only not respecting his legs or ability to burn them running, but they are actually baiting him into mistakes because of it.  They'll initially squat on the underneath stuff, particularly the shallow routes to the sidelines and then as soon as he starts moving out of the pocket, since they know he isn't going to take off and run, they fall off those shallow targets and sink back waiting for him to try and hit the honey hole.  He's made this throw so many times in years past and he's amazing at this.  But who else knows this?  The defenses we play, of course.  So, teams will constantly continue to do this until we make them pay for it either by letting Allen take off or create their own counters by changing up the underneath routes.  We run this concept so much, teams can see it coming a mile away.  This, along with our mesh concept, have become way too easy for defenses to figure out what we're doing at the snap and then easily take it away.  Here's hoping Brady fires these concepts to the moon for a while and gets away from the predictability they come with and just let Allen loose.  I'm telling you, while the INTs may not completely go away, they will be dramatically reduced by letting Allen use all of his physical gifts.

Then the fumbles go up. 
 

Bottom line, Allen needs to make better and smarter decisions.