The elephant in the room that there is no thread about - Josh Allen has a severe turnover problem

[Aussie Joe]

5 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

 

Brett Favre very much had a similar flaw but the Packers were still able to win a title and make two Super Bowl appearances. That should probably be the bills and Allen’s realistic goal as well.

 

 

You are probably right and that’s the goal … and I’ll gladly take it right now …

 

not going to lie though… I hoped the ceiling was higher a couple of years back..

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I agree criticism is fine. Seems maybe some of us are going overboard with the criticism though. Or perhaps more accurately, not actually realizing what it is they are expecting Allen to achieve.
 

As you say, no player is perfect but Allen would be the closest thing to perfect the league has ever seen if he cut back on turnovers.

 

So, if no player is perfect, it’s my opinion that will simply have to, as bills fans, learn to live with Allen’s biggest flaw.

 

Brett Favre very much had a similar flaw but the Packers were still able to win a title and make two Super Bowl appearances. That should probably be the bills and Allen’s realistic goal as well.

 

 

And when we win it, I won’t criticize. If we don’t, I will

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

this was also an INT

 

 

thats our best skill player Diggs 1v1 w both hands on the ball against Darious Williams

 

Funny thing is that DB was initially just trying to make Diggs drop the ball, not intercept it.  Initially both the DB's hands were on the inside of the ball just trying to pry it out.  How that ended up an INT is just crazy.

3 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Aaron Rodgers

Steve Young

Joe Montana

Patrick Mahomes

Donovan McNabb

 

All reduced their INTs as the years went on. Jalen Hurts is not throwing many INTs either and he has a long way to go.

 

Our Josh Allen better get it together. The Madden Cover Curse is alive and well.

 

 

 

All I did was look at Mahomes to see you didn't even bother checking and just throwing stuff out there.

 

in order: 1, 12, 5, 6, 13, 12, 8(current season on pace for record high of 15)

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Funny thing is that DB was initially just trying to make Diggs drop the ball, not intercept it.  Initially both the DB's hands were on the inside of the ball just trying to pry it out.  How that ended up an INT is just crazy.

That's what I'm saying🤙

 

I mean yes, obviously he needs to throw fewer picks. But the turnover luck this year has been absolutely brutal...every single ball that had even a slight chance of getting intercepted has been

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

19 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

You are probably right and that’s the goal … and I’ll gladly take it right now …

 

not going to lie though… I hoped the ceiling was higher a couple of years back..

I think I was in the same boat, but beginning to learn, is much harder than you would think, even when you have a franchise quarterback. Might just be unlucky with the pairing of Reid and Mahomes as well.
 

And somehow we’ve managed to have a defense that under performs every single postseason compared to their regular season performances , whereas say the Bengals defense over performa in the postseason compared to the regular season performances.

 

it’s going to be about having the stars align at the right time. Not devastated by injury, Allen not going through a streak of turnovers, and the defense actually over performing when it matters the most.

[Scott7975]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

That's what I'm saying🤙

 

I mean yes, obviously he needs to throw fewer picks. But the turnover luck this year has been absolutely brutal...every single ball that had even a slight chance of getting intercepted has been

 

My favorites are when people in the GDT: Why Josh throwing into triple coverage.  Then you look and see Diggs is single coverage and Josh got rid of the ball just before he got nailed.  It was a bad throw but it wasn't no damn triple coverage.  Wasn't all that great of a route by Diggs either honestly.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, billykay said:

WR's should just tackle the DB before he is able to make an int. The penalty is you get to do it again just 10 yds longer.

That’s an outstanding point - 

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Lol at the Rodgers comparison

 

 

Are you referring to how he was traditionally very low ints or something else? 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

That’s an outstanding point - 

Are you referring to how he was traditionally very low ints or something else? 

I'm referring to the fact that Rodgers is the unicorn of TD/INT ratio 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I'm referring to the fact that Rodgers is the unicorn of TD/INT ratio 

It is unbelievable 

[Chicken Boo]

5 hours ago, Chugga said:

That’s not the elephant in the room.  The elephant is definitely the fact that the star WRs brother is openly talking trash on his QB and the WR hasn’t addressed this.  Completely unacceptable that Diggs is letting his bro mouth off like this.  Thats your QB that’s your teammate.  You want to talk about Allen’s numbers before Diggs, well look at Diggs numbers before Allen.  Maybe Allen’s brother or sister need to start posting on twitter about how dangerous the Bills offense would be if they didn’t trade that 1st rounder and drafted Justin Jefferson instead.

 

Dont get me wrong I love Stefon Diggs he’s my favorite current Bill, but he’s losing me quickly by not sticking up for his QB.

 

I'd bet he and Josh talk almost every day.  Diggs doesn't owe you or any of us fans a thing.  

[BufBills83]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

I think the Josh Allen turnover narrative is greatly overstated. Passing volume and randomness significantly affect people's perception. Your own link show's that Allen is much better than average at interception % for his career, despite supposedly being a gunslinger. Even this year, his interception rate is basically equal to Peyton Manning's career mark. 

 

The other thing is just random luck. Through the first eight weeks of the season, Allen had 8 interceptions and two fumbles on 7 total turn-over worthy plays, in the opinion of Pro Football Focus. That means that literally every mistake Allen was making was getting picked and then some. That is not a normal rate. Every quarterback benefits from defensive backs inability to reliably catch but this year randomness has not been in Allen's favor. Meanwhile, the Bills defense has not had an interception since the Miami game six weeks ago. How many picks did they drop against Baker Mayfield two weeks ago? My count was three.

 

 

 

 

This is what I have been saying for a bit and I totally agree.  The turnover narrative is totally misplaced and unfair to Josh.  Is he throwing some interceptions that are his fault, of course.  Fumbles?  yes.  But in the overall body of work for the year, the plays that are run for the most part are not reckless and needlessly putting the ball in harms way.  He's had extremely bad luck with most of the turnovers.  Ball bouncing off receivers hands (Gabe davis vs Denver), the deflection in the Tampa game that no one bats down, no dropped interceptions, I can go on.  And if some of these weren't turnovers, we possibly win another game or 2 and we're 7-3 instead of 5-5.  But maybe its a blessing in disguise, Brady does a better job than Dorsey, and the play calls are better AND we cut down turnovers and we vastly improve the offense the rest of the way.

[Dr.Sack]

There’s lot of factors that contribute to a loss but often when Allen has 2 or more we lose.

[Chicken Boo]

People are still making excuses for Josh like they did for McDermott just 3 weeks ago and like they were for Dorsey leading up to this season.  

 

Eventually you all will come around.  A day late and a dollar short, but you'll get there.  

[JerseyBills]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

If Josh does not find some way to cut down on the turnovers he will likely continue to be both a Bills game killer and may even severely stain his career.  Josh is no doubt a first ballot HOF talent. Josh also has the talent to win multiple Lombardi’s

 

Whether he achieves these outcomes may largely depend on his ability to cut down on the turnovers. In the Bills losses this year Josh has been a turnover factory.  yes, batted balls, strips and the like are not always his “fault.”  However, the statistics don’t lie.  Josh is boom or bust and lately he has been far more prone to bust.

 

We as fans will have zero impact here.  However, I wonder if Brady as a new OC will literally and figuratively help Josh get a handle on the situation.  Josh has turned around weaknesses in his game in many ways.  Turnovers now remain the last most obvious hurdle where he needs to do so.

 

As a contrarian point, Josh is not among the worst at interception % among the all time “greats.”  It’s apples and oranges due to the prevalence of the pass game in the modern era but on a straight up % Jim Kelly and Dan Marino  were worse. For a better comparison to “modern era” QB’s Aaron Rogers is far better (and can be a gunslinger).

 

 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_career.htm

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

Facts

He has become a T.O machine , which kills us on both sides of the ball 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

You are probably right and that’s the goal … and I’ll gladly take it right now …

 

not going to lie though… I hoped the ceiling was higher a couple of years back..

I heard comments on here this past offseason about how Allen will have more rings than Mahomes after 10 yrs. I just chuckled and thought please just get 1. Let’s get 1 and anything else is gravy. 

[JaCrispy]

Josh plays QB like I play poker- I know I shouldn’t “call”, but I just can’t resist…😉

[Aussie Joe]

30 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

I heard comments on here this past offseason about how Allen will have more rings than Mahomes after 10 yrs. I just chuckled and thought please just get 1. Let’s get 1 and anything else is gravy. 

i was thinking after 13 seconds there was a possibility when it was still 1-0 …

 

Probably not happening now .::

[Chugga]

50 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'd bet he and Josh talk almost every day.  Diggs doesn't owe you or any of us fans a thing.  

[Paup 1995MVP]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

You are probably right and that’s the goal … and I’ll gladly take it right now …

 

not going to lie though… I hoped the ceiling was higher a couple of years back..

Need better coaching.  And better playmakers around Josh to make the Super Bowl a reality.  The O line has been solid for the most part this year.  And needs to continue to stay that way going forward. 

 

Favre had good coaching especially with Mike Holmgren.  And a lot of good receivers throughout his career.  Of course he made them better with his play.  But guys like Gabe Davis would not have been starting or playing much for that matter on the Favre era Packers.  

[NoSaint]

Ultimately, when he’s the host that is simultaneously extending drives every game with plays only he can make - I couldn’t care less about a few turnovers. 
 

when we are trying to grind out a slow game with long drives and he can’t run or uncork an amazing throw I like it a lot less. 
 

the thing was when he made *those* amazing plays it was almost like creating an extra possession - ie offsetting turnovers. Without that guy, it just hurts.