The elephant in the room that there is no thread about - Josh Allen has a severe turnover problem

[HoofHearted]

He always has. This isn't anything new to this season.

[Chugga]

That’s not the elephant in the room.  The elephant is definitely the fact that the star WRs brother is openly talking trash on his QB and the WR hasn’t addressed this.  Completely unacceptable that Diggs is letting his bro mouth off like this.  Thats your QB that’s your teammate.  You want to talk about Allen’s numbers before Diggs, well look at Diggs numbers before Allen.  Maybe Allen’s brother or sister need to start posting on twitter about how dangerous the Bills offense would be if they didn’t trade that 1st rounder and drafted Justin Jefferson instead.

 

Dont get me wrong I love Stefon Diggs he’s my favorite current Bill, but he’s losing me quickly by not sticking up for his QB.

[90sBills]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Just posted this is another thread:

 

He has had awful turnover luck this year. As far as I can remember zero dropped interceptions and every one of his fumbles has been recovered by the defense.

That guy is really pushy the ‘turnover worthy’ narrative. It’s not the same as actual turnovers.

 

When I golf I don’t count my ‘birdies worthy’ putts. Otherwise my index would be much lower. lol 

[Bob Jones]

3 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

 

Joe Buck and Troy Aikman? Ick! I had the Manning Cast on. I did switch to ESPN when Kermit came on. Can't listen to him either. But trust me, the sound was off during that time. 

I really enjoy what the Manning bros have to say, and agree with you about Buck & Aikman,....but the problem is that they don’t take the same video feed as the main broadcast, so you dont get nowhere near the good replays that they show on the main channel. And then very often, they're yakking with their guest and you really miss out on stuff, such as the ref announcing a penalty, or multiple angle replays.

 

Also, is there really a need to see their faces in little boxes on the screen for the WHOLE broadcast?! I think not. 😉

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Slowly but surely people are coming around to my position. It's tough to be on the vanguard, on the bleeding edge. But man, it can be gratifying

 

[kota]

Josh Allen does turnover the all alot he is a gun slinger.  However,  there are times where he is forcing it because the offense isn't moving and he's trying to create something out of nothing.  

The playcalling has been terrible.  

[MJS]

Oh really? Nobody is discussing Josh Allen's turnovers?

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Just posted this is another thread:

 

He has had awful turnover luck this year. As far as I can remember zero dropped interceptions and every one of his fumbles has been recovered by the defense.

This nails it. Most people don't appreciate how much random variation affects the world, and sports fans and pundits are generally terrible at it due to their need to explain every outcome with a narrative.

[Westside]

Just now, kota said:

Josh Allen does turnover the all alot he is a gun slinger.  However,  there are times where he is forcing it because the offense isn't moving and he's trying to create something out of nothing.  

The playcalling has been terrible.  

And our receivers outside of Diggs suck. How many of those Interceptions have come off of receivers hands into a opposing players hands? Or the severely limited receivers running the wrong route? It’s not all in Allen.

[Nihilarian]

I put a lot of the blame on Ken Dorsey and here is why. It was stated on MNF by the Mannings that they saw that INT coming before it happened and as others have stated that is a pass play that should be taken out of their playbook as it has happened a few times now. 

 

Bill Walsh used to make certain that with his pass plays the receiver was always between the defender and the ball. Not only that, he would review plays in which Montana would throw an INT and remove those plays if they happened more than once. 

 

Besides, according to Dan Orlavsky, Dorsey has failed to put his players in a position to have success. It would take a 10 out of 10 effort by players to make plays work and it shouldn't be that difficult. He stated that the Buffalo offense was broken schematically and easy to defend. 

 

Josh has gotten worse under Dorsey. Now, let's see how it goes with Brady. 

[Heels20X6]

4 minutes ago, Chugga said:

That’s not the elephant in the room.  The elephant is definitely the fact that the star WRs brother is openly talking trash on his QB and the WR hasn’t addressed this.  Completely unacceptable that Diggs is letting his bro mouth off like this.  Thats your QB that’s your teammate.  You want to talk about Allen’s numbers before Diggs, well look at Diggs numbers before Allen.  Maybe Allen’s brother or sister need to start posting on twitter about how dangerous the Bills offense would be if they didn’t trade that 1st rounder and drafted Justin Jefferson instead.

 

Dont get me wrong I love Stefon Diggs he’s my favorite current Bill, but he’s losing me quickly by not sticking up for his QB.

Considering how quickly Josh went to bat for Stef when the media went on "Attack Mode" with the early season stuff, it's pretty pathetic that Diggs is being quiet while his less talented brother mouths off.

 

If the media actually did it's job, it would be great if someone asked him directly about this.  Ask Josh too.

[MikePJ76]

Just now, FireChans said:

 The first TO resulted in points against Denver. The first TO resulted in points against NE.

 

TOs matter. They always have and always will.

 

Yes, Josh is great. TOs aren’t great. TOs are bad. You are never gonna convince anybody otherwise because this is a fact.

The first TO was a fumble by cook that led to a field goal.

 

The Allen INT. in the first quarter led to no points for Denver and would have been a minimum of 3 for Buffalo.

 

yes the interception vs new england led to a pats TD....then buffalo got the ball back and allen threw a TD pass that was negated because of an offensive pass interference call.  they kicked a field goal.  In the fourth quarter in the 4 minute drill Allen leads a go ahead scoring drive by running it in for a td to give buffalo the lead.  The defense then blows the game......now the offensive pass interference call on Murray cost the bills 4 points.....they lost by 4 points, allen hit kincaid on the play for a td.

 

At the most crucial times Allen led the team back to take the lead.  You can make the case that the OPI was just as harmful as the int vs new england.  No one will though because the narrative is Allen is a turnover machine because they heard it on espn.

 

Turnovers are a part of the game, if you are going to have to pass to survive because you refuse to run the ball then the odds of turnovers happening is going to go up no matter who the qb is.

 

you know what else are a part of the game?  Takeaways.  Yes the defense has killer injuries but allowing teams to control the clock and push them up and down the field and make big plays when they want is just as bad as any turnover from the offense.

 

The defensive gaffes and penalties late in these games whether its missed tackles, dead ball mental mistakes or The P.I.'s are every bit and maybe more a problem than a few first quarter interceptions.

[Logic]

1.) Not all turnovers are created equally. As Dan Orlovsky pointed out, Josh has three truly egregious interceptions on the year. He also has multiple interceptions that were tipped at the line or bounced off of his receivers' hands.

2.) As Dan Orlovsky ALSO pointed out, the Bills offense has become super static, basic, and easy for defenses to gameplan against. Josh Allen is the type of player who, when there's nothing there, tries a bit too hard at times to make something out of nothing.

3.) The entire offensive cast of players has been playing sloppy football, dropping catchable passes, and ending up in the wrong place on pass patterns at times. To me, the ongoing complete offensive dysfunction and sloppiness almost certainly points to a failure in coaching.

All of these points lead me to this: I think that the dismissal of Ken Dorsey may lead to less turnovers from Josh Allen, and I think it will end up being a non-issue. If Brady is no great improvement, then I expect whoever is next at OC -- presuming he's worth his salt -- to lead to a smarter and less turnover-prone Josh Allen.

Lastly, REGARDLESS of who his OC is, Josh Allen WILL always be a gunslinger, he will likely ALWAYS have a decent amount of turnovers, but the good will likely almost always outweigh the bad. You take the bad plays with the super-human ones, because you can't have the latter without occasionally having the former. Shooters shoot.

[Wraith]

4 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

you know what else are a part of the game?  Takeaways.  Yes the defense has killer injuries but allowing teams to control the clock and push them up and down the field and make big plays when they want is just as bad as any turnover from the offense.

Yup! The Bills defense hasn't had an interception in six freakin' games! The Bills turnover rate on offense this season is perfectly normal, the turnover margin is terrible because the defense can't force a turnover to save their lives.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Wraith

[Aussie Joe]

Heard a stat yesterday, that in the Josh Allen era, the Bills are 31-1 when they win the turnovers 

[Scott7975]

Turnovers are a bigger issue this year than in years past.  In years past they didn't matter so much because he was putting up like 30+ most games.  This year thats more like 18-20.  It's only magnified because the offense has been so bad in just about everything else this year.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Scott7975

[Bangarang]

Maybe more WCO principles might be the best scheme for Josh. Have him focus more on timing and throwing to a spot rather than trying to diagnose and dissect post snap. Of course that would depend on an OC who is good at scheming and designing plays.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Bangarang

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

That guy is really pushy the ‘turnover worthy’ narrative. It’s not the same as actual turnovers.

 

When I golf I don’t count my ‘birdies worthy’ putts. Otherwise my index would be much lower. lol 

It's not the same but it informs the raw data, similar to strokes gained/GIR

[WotAGuy]

Just like sitting on the bench after a turnover lit a fire under James Cook, putting Dorsey in permanent time out will light a fire under Josh. 

[Dan Darragh]

Threads like this one make me consider going cold turkey on the message boards.