The elephant in the room that there is no thread about - Josh Allen has a severe turnover problem

[BuffaloBill]

If Josh does not find some way to cut down on the turnovers he will likely continue to be both a Bills game killer and may even severely stain his career.  Josh is no doubt a first ballot HOF talent. Josh also has the talent to win multiple Lombardi’s

 

Whether he achieves these outcomes may largely depend on his ability to cut down on the turnovers. In the Bills losses this year Josh has been a turnover factory.  yes, batted balls, strips and the like are not always his “fault.”  However, the statistics don’t lie.  Josh is boom or bust and lately he has been far more prone to bust.

 

We as fans will have zero impact here.  However, I wonder if Brady as a new OC will literally and figuratively help Josh get a handle on the situation.  Josh has turned around weaknesses in his game in many ways.  Turnovers now remain the last most obvious hurdle where he needs to do so.

 

As a contrarian point, Josh is not among the worst at interception % among the all time “greats.”  It’s apples and oranges due to the prevalence of the pass game in the modern era but on a straight up % Jim Kelly and Dan Marino  were worse. For a better comparison to “modern era” QB’s Aaron Rogers is far better (and can be a gunslinger).

 

 https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_int_perc_career.htm

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

[Rigotz]

Great point.

 

There hasn't been enough discussion about Josh's turnovers in the media and on this message board and by Josh himself and by the coaches who are both here and fired.

 

I think we're all happy you created this thread.

[Blank Stare]

 

6 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

There hasn't been enough discussion about Josh's turnovers in the media and on this message board and by Josh himself and by the coaches who are both here and fired.

 

But yes…cut that 💩 out Josh. 

[MikePJ76]

My thoughts are this, Josh Allen is the villain and the reason for the losing narrative is making me mental.  An interception in the first quarter is no more harmful to the outcome of the game than a Pass Interference penalty on the most crucial play of the game or an inexcusable 12 man penalty on a field goal,  Its just easy for the narrative to be fed to the simpletons who watch football that the qb is the problem.

 

Pass goes right through the hands of Gabe Davis and is intercepted in the redzone costing the team a minimum of 3 points and more realistically 7 points......Davis is the culprit yet the tv cameras show close up shots of Josh Allen, then they show his interception numbers and Joe Buck and Troy Aikman say he is the reason for the teams troubles and say he throws the ball too hard.  The simpletons at home gobble it up and take the easy road and blame him.  

 

in the most crucial moment for the offense in the fourth quarter Allen made a huge pass play and then ultimately ran in the go ahead score.  Just like vs NY, Tampa, New England, the playoffs at KC, playoffs vs Miami...etc.

 

John Elway once said "they pay me to win on third downs and score td's in the red zone"  

 

Its time this organization lines up behind him and stands with him.  

 

When star players brothers are saying he is nothing without his brother.....this is a serious red flag.  

 

This type of stuff needs to be stopped.  

 

Everyone on the staff and most of the players here are replaceable....think you can't find another stephon diggs? James Cook? Ed oliver? etc.....nonsense.....Josh Allen....you might wait 25 years or more for another one.

 

Allen will outlast the staff, the front office and the roster.  The organization needs to end all this talk in the media and the BS narrative about this player.  He needs to know he is not going to be leveraged here into new jobs for coaches and as a scapegoat for other players to shed their share of blame.

 

To quote Bill Parcells, "This is a replacement business"  another quote from parcells on qb's...."you can't just dial 1-800 quarterback and get another one"

 

Bills fans and the local Bills media need to really take that to heart.  What is going on right now with the narrative is insanity to me.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by MikePJ76

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, MikePJ76 said:

My thoughts are this, Josh Allen is the villain and the reason for the losing narrative is making me mental.  An interception in the first quarter is no more harmful to the outcome of the game than a Pass Interference penalty on the most crucial play of the game or an inexcusable 12 man penalty on a field goal,  Its just easy for the narrative to be fed to the simpletons who watch football that the qb is the problem.

 

Pass goes right through the hands of Gabe Davis and is intercepted in the redzone costing the team a minimum of 3 points and more realistically 7 points......Davis is the culprit yet the tv cameras show close up shots of Josh Allen, then they show his interception numbers and Joe Buck and Troy Aikman say he is the reason for the teams troubles and say he throws the ball too hard.  The simpletons at home gobble it up and take the easy road and blame him.  

 

in the most crucial moment for the offense in the fourth quarter Allen made a huge pass play and then ultimately ran in the go ahead score.  Just like vs NY, Tampa, New England, the playoffs at KC, playoffs vs Miami...etc.

 

John Elway once said "they pay me to win on third downs and score td's in the red zone"  

 

Its time this organization lines up behind him and stands with him.  

 

When star players brothers are saying he is nothing without his brother.....this is a serious red flag.  

 

This type of stuff needs to be stopped.  

 

Everyone on the staff and most of the players here are replaceable....think you can't find another stephon diggs? James Cook? Ed oliver? etc.....nonsense.....Josh Allen....you might wait 25 years or more for another one.

 

Allen will outlast the staff, the front office and the roster.  The organization needs to end all this talk in the media and the BS narrative about this player.  He needs to know he is not going to be leveraged here into new jobs for coaches and as a scapegoat for other players to shed their share of blame.

 

To quote Bill Parcells, "This is a replacement business"  another quote from parcells on qb's...."you can't just dial 1-800 quarterback and get another one"

 

Bills fans and the local Bills need to really take that to heart.  What is going on right now with the narrative is insanity to me.

 

 Ball security is job security.

[MikePJ76]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

 Ball security is job security.

Great.  

 

So go ahead and get rid of Josh Allen because of some interceptions and ignore all the other stuff he does, including playing hurt all the time.

 

When this team turns into a ball control running team and limits possessions and plays lights out defense with the intent to win 17-14 like the 90 Giants you can get back to me about ball security.

 

for now, the turnovers are something that is happening amongst a bevy of things that have been out of whack.  They are not back breaking mistakes and for the most part, sans the jets game are not late ints to end the game.

 

Even with the interceptions the team has not lost directly because of them. The jets game was lost on a kick return, the pats game because the defense can not get a stop late same with Denver coupled with another special teams mistake.  

 

Denver was dropping 7 in coverage monday night on every damn play seemingly begging allen to try to fit balls in.  That is a tough ask of any quarterback.....in the end he led a game winning drive inside 4 minutes and ran the damn go ahead score in.  The defense let them down again.

 

 

[DuckyBoys]

He does need to cut them down but a few were throwaways/arm punts batted balls and bad luck (Gabe Davis stone hands etc)  Think they seem much worse because a few were really dumb forced throws  The really egregious plays were the Jets ints , the Pats opening drive int and the broncos sideline pick  Those were arm arrogance/bad decisions  He needs to be better, maybe benefit from a bid of good luck  Think it all starts with using the run game more and maybe him figuring out how to move the ball without needing to fit difficult throws more than a handful of times per game

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I was more than fine with his INTs. It’s always been the fumbles that are inexcusable. Also the turnovers didnt kill us when we hardly punted. A punt is a controlled turnover.

 

We’re still not punting much. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[HappyDays]

Just posted this is another thread:

 

He has had awful turnover luck this year. As far as I can remember zero dropped interceptions and every one of his fumbles has been recovered by the defense.

[Fleezoid]

15 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

My thoughts are this, Josh Allen is the villain and the reason for the losing narrative is making me mental.  An interception in the first quarter is no more harmful to the outcome of the game than a Pass Interference penalty on the most crucial play of the game or an inexcusable 12 man penalty on a field goal,  Its just easy for the narrative to be fed to the simpletons who watch football that the qb is the problem.

 

Pass goes right through the hands of Gabe Davis and is intercepted in the redzone costing the team a minimum of 3 points and more realistically 7 points......Davis is the culprit yet the tv cameras show close up shots of Josh Allen, then they show his interception numbers and Joe Buck and Troy Aikman say he is the reason for the teams troubles and say he throws the ball too hard.  The simpletons at home gobble it up and take the easy road and blame him.  

 

 

Joe Buck and Troy Aikman? Ick! I had the Manning Cast on. I did switch to ESPN when Kermit came on. Can't listen to him either. But trust me, the sound was off during that time. 

[GoBills808]

Lol at the Rodgers comparison

 

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

Great.  

 

So go ahead and get rid of Josh Allen because of some interceptions and ignore all the other stuff he does, including playing hurt all the time.

 

When this team turns into a ball control running team and limits possessions and plays lights out defense with the intent to win 17-14 like the 90 Giants you can get back to me about ball security.

 

for now, the turnovers are something that is happening amongst a bevy of things that have been out of whack.  They are not back breaking mistakes and for the most part, sans the jets game are not late ints to end the game.

 

Even with the interceptions the team has not lost directly because of them. The jets game was lost on a kick return, the pats game because the defense can not get a stop late same with Denver coupled with another special teams mistake.  

 

Denver was dropping 7 in coverage monday night on every damn play seemingly begging allen to try to fit balls in.  That is a tough ask of any quarterback.....in the end he led a game winning drive inside 4 minutes and ran the damn go ahead score in.  The defense let them down again.

 

 

 The first TO resulted in points against Denver. The first TO resulted in points against NE.

 

TOs matter. They always have and always will.

 

Yes, Josh is great. TOs aren’t great. TOs are bad. You are never gonna convince anybody otherwise because this is a fact.

[Toyo321]

25 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Great point.

 

There hasn't been enough discussion about Josh's turnovers in the media and on this message board and by Josh himself and by the coaches who are both here and fired.

 

I think we're all happy you created this thread.

It has been dragged all over the media for the last 5 weeks.  Everyone is pointing their finger at Josh, his preparation commitment,  football IQ and also his blatant egotistical trait of believing he can force any ball into any double or triple covered receiver, without a resulting adverse outcome.

 

As of late JA17 has been a liability and the media has called him out on this every single week for the last 5 weeks if not more.

 

JA17 in 2023 = Extremely Inconsistent and reckless decision making with the football on the field.

 

 

[Wraith]

I think the Josh Allen turnover narrative is greatly overstated. Passing volume and randomness significantly affect people's perception. Your own link show's that Allen is much better than average at interception % for his career, despite supposedly being a gunslinger. Even this year, his interception rate is basically equal to Peyton Manning's career mark. 

 

The other thing is just random luck. Through the first eight weeks of the season, Allen had 8 interceptions and two fumbles on 7 total turn-over worthy plays, in the opinion of Pro Football Focus. That means that literally every mistake Allen was making was getting picked and then some. That is not a normal rate. Every quarterback benefits from defensive backs inability to reliably catch but this year randomness has not been in Allen's favor. Meanwhile, the Bills defense has not had an interception since the Miami game six weeks ago. How many picks did they drop against Baker Mayfield two weeks ago? My count was three.

 

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

This is a pretty dominant topic in terms of Josh Allen for years now.

 

The funny thing is, outside of that one play that Josh Allen has thrown 4 interceptions on this year, Allen's turnover worthy plays are actually incredibly low.  And as for that one play... I hope sending Dorsey packing gets that play out of our playbook... or at least sets up Brady to mix in some trickery designed around that specific play.

[BuffaloBaumer]

Allen will never be as good as he was in 2021. For whatever reason (and it's not just Dabol), Allen's physical tools, decision making, and attitude on the sidelines have all regressed. He is a middle of the pack QB who, without a great defense, will not get this team to the playoffs. His head is either scrambled with off the filed stuff, or has just completely lost confidence in his ability. The window was small with the team around him, and now it's just another NFL team with a goal to get to the playoffs.

[freddyjj]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Just posted this is another thread:

 

He has had awful turnover luck this year. As far as I can remember zero dropped interceptions and every one of his fumbles has been recovered by the defense.

heard on WGR earlier today that all but one of the Bills fumbles (8/9) have been recovered by the opponent!  Hopefully we stop putting the ball on the carpet and we regress to the mean on recoveries if we have more fumbles.

Edited November 15, 2023 by freddyjj

[julian]

Yes he does and always will, some years will be better than others, but what he doesn’t have a problem with us scoring TDs. Allen is a more athletic Brett Favre and that’s just what it is.

 

 Packers were able to overcome the turnovers and catch a title, hopefully the Bills can do the same or better.

[transplantbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Just posted this is another thread:

 

He has had awful turnover luck this year. As far as I can remember zero dropped interceptions and every one of his fumbles has been recovered by the defense.

 

Awesome tweet and exactly the point I was just trying to make.

 

Other than that really weird play that Allen keeps throwing interceptions on, he's been soooOOOOOOOOooooo much better at ball security.

[Mango]

Ok, I hear what your saying and that is a good idea. 

But one thing I am so confused about is the turnovers. I get the sense these are bad. And when we have them, we lose more. I wonder if they have tried asking him to stop? 

Has anybody asked somebody on the team if they maybe tried asking him to stop? Who is the asker I need to ask to do the asking of Josh to stop doing the thing?