McD, Accountability, and Culture

[SectionC3]

3 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

I get the sentiment here and certainly there's a lot to criticize when it comes to McD, but I don't get the fans asking to see "accountability" as if the man is supposed to... what? Is he supposed to fire himself? 

 

Just because a HC isn't immediately let go doesn't mean he's not being held accountable. I think sports fans are too quick to think of a coach being fired as the only acceptable response when a coach f's up. 

 

But just for some perspective, Andy Reid had some brutal playoff losses in Kansas City before Mahomes came along (to say nothing of his consecutive NFC championship game losses in Philly). Now he's paired with an elite QB and is leading the new NFL dynasty. The majority opinion after KC's 2015 divisional loss to the Patriots was "same old Andy Reid chokes in the postseason, he'll never win it all." If he was "held accountable" after that game and fired, is KC where they're at right now? 

 

I think Terry is in a tough position. McDermott and Beane have given Buffalo sports the most consistent success we've seen in over twenty years. Now I firmly believe Josh Allen deserve the bulk of the credit for that, but if we're holding McDermott responsible for the brutal losses, we also have to give him some credit for the success as well. 

 

Just trying to play some devil's advocate. 

The issue I have with this is that the discipline and structure for which McD is known is totally lacking this year.  And, that facility does not strike me as a particularly happy place, not only this year but for maybe the second half of last year, too.  If we’re rolling into the playoffs every year at 11-5 with structure and discipline and happy warriors I can live with the idea that it might take us 10 or even 15 years to have the chips fall such that we win the whole thing.  What I can’t live with is a coach with no answers and the malaise at OBD.  

 

Part of me wonders if everyone simply became too comfortable with each other and lost the drive that a young Josh Allen had, that is, the burning desire to prove everyone wrong.  In the life cycle of a franchise QB there’s typically a couple of “generations” of teams—he gets a shot at it with a few different groups.  This group, and I think the point is obvious, is done.  So now it’s time to retool around Josh and the o-line (probably save for Morse) and a few other players (Diggs, should he stay, Kincaid, Cook, Oliver, Bernard, Milano, Rousseau, and Benford) and see what happens when we get some young, hungry, fresh blood in the mix.  

[Dr Divit]

Great Article on McD limitations and lack of flexibility.  Great Read.

 

I'll ruin the ending,  McD sucks and has to go.

 

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/sean-mcdermott-buffalo-bills-ken-dorsey/

[AuntieEm]

 

 

3 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

I think a great deal of the time fans are just mad and want someone fired even if it doesn't make great sense.

Dorsey for example, they fire him in a already short week, where the next opponent is a divisional game where said opponent beat you earlier in the year.  Did it make sense to fire Dorsey now rather than a few weeks ago, or in a few weeks?

But blood lust needed to be satisfied.

Well it also give an easy excuse for when the team produces some more Bison dung and leaves it on the field.  I don't think anyone in the organization knows how to actually take responsibility of the results they are getting on the field.  Team seems to be very fragmented in little groups and doesn't seem like they try to work together but rather they seem to be all just trying to deflect any of the blame from themselves.  Defense is decimated by injuries, and those still able to play aren't gonna go all out when the offense isn't putting in the same effort.  Can't risk injury to Josh  or season is lost.  Can't ask defense to keep losing players to injury as the offense does not do their part.  Doesn't look like any players have each other's backs though they all mouth the same cliches about believing in their teammates.  

 

It is very telling they needed to call a player only meeting  which doesn't seem to have done anything but seems to have driven a wedge deeper into the various player factions this team has.  Guess it's the new version of Bickering Bills. Whenl they figure out how to play as a team then they will have a chance at winning something.  And frankly they don't deserve to win anything the way they have been playing.

 

 

[zow2]

I don't mind the benching of Cook for one series or two.  Even though it's kind of an old school move, just about every coach in football plays that game.  A few weeks ago on MNF, De'andre Swift fumbled and Siriani had him glued to the bench for most of the first half.  

 

I was really burned up by the 12 men on the field,,(can Sean count?!?)... and how he said they practiced that during the week and failed to execute.  And also, the Bills D was like Top-5 for a few years and we were all OK with firing Frazier, but now Sean takes over and they completely suck at the end of games in crunch time.  We just needed a stop in a couple of these close losses (out of 5 of them) and they could've been wins.  So YOU SUCK Sean.

[ProcessImproverMan]

Regarding accountability.  For being a so called defensive mastermind, McDermotts defenses have really taken advantage of weak teams over the past few years to pad their stats, and have been routinely exposed by good QBs, many times of which has led to Allen having to bail out the team with his top 5 numbers year in and year out. When we play good offenses, our defense largely collapses, unless it's Miami....This despite all the high draft picks and free agency pickups Beane has given McDermott, who clearly has an influence there. 

 

In 2021 the Bills beat the weak offenses of Washington, Atlanta, Carolina, Jets 2x , Miami 2x (pre Hill), Houston, New England, and New Orleans (injury decimated team at the time on a backup QB). Good offensive teams, such as the Colts, Titans, Bucs, Chiefs, etc killed us and we lost a game to the Patriots where they threw 2 whole passes because we couldn't stop the run everyone knew was coming. 

 

In 2022, the Bills beat the weak offenses of the Patriots twice, Jets once, Titans (tons of injuries at the time), Rams (Staffords arm was injured that game and he went out for year soon after...), Bears, Packers (Rodgers was washed then without receivers). They played ok but not really great (despite the investments) against the Lions, Browns, and Chiefs offenses in the regular season wins against those teams (Allen needed to perform a miracle against Detroit) and ok against the Dolphins in their win. Against offenses worth a damn, such as the Bengals 2x and the Vikings, we collapsed and the defense was abused by the Jets in the Jets win against us. 

 

Both years our defenses routinely lost games at the end when all we needed was a stop. 

 

 

This year is more of the same. 

 

Last time our defense was truly dominant was under Schwartz and look what he is doing in Cleveland. Schwartz is accountable and gets results on the defensive side of the ball. The Ravens have had injuries as well this year and their defense has been more accountable and good, with dominant performances against good offenses (see Lions as one example who were held to 3 despite their offense being very good this year finally). 49ers defense is very solid and dominant against good offenses (such as the Jaguars team that killed us which they held to 3). For years Belichick coached very good defenses that shut down good offenses (see both Rams Super Bowls  as examples). McDermott doesn't have that track record. 

 

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, drummernut74 said:

All you get from McD is .. "we didn't execute" and "we have to get better" or "we'll learn from this".  McD is Terry's Pet Poodle, and untouchable Golden Boy ... and everyone ELSE has had enough

 

Actually, you also get "I wish I knew what was wrong," along with admissions that he's clueless how to correct it.  

 

A few more years and he's going to run out of people to fire.  

 

 

[Dubie54]

39 minutes ago, Dr Divit said:

Great Article on McD limitations and lack of flexibility.  Great Read.

 

I'll ruin the ending,  McD sucks and has to go.

 

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/sean-mcdermott-buffalo-bills-ken-dorsey/

Well done analysis backed up with data.

[Yobogoya!]

50 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

The issue I have with this is that the discipline and structure for which McD is known is totally lacking this year.  And, that facility does not strike me as a particularly happy place, not only this year but for maybe the second half of last year, too.  If we’re rolling into the playoffs every year at 11-5 with structure and discipline and happy warriors I can live with the idea that it might take us 10 or even 15 years to have the chips fall such that we win the whole thing.  What I can’t live with is a coach with no answers and the malaise at OBD.  

 

Part of me wonders if everyone simply became too comfortable with each other and lost the drive that a young Josh Allen had, that is, the burning desire to prove everyone wrong.  In the life cycle of a franchise QB there’s typically a couple of “generations” of teams—he gets a shot at it with a few different groups.  This group, and I think the point is obvious, is done.  So now it’s time to retool around Josh and the o-line (probably save for Morse) and a few other players (Diggs, should he stay, Kincaid, Cook, Oliver, Bernard, Milano, Rousseau, and Benford) and see what happens when we get some young, hungry, fresh blood in the mix.  

 

Yeah. I mean on the one hand I feel like McD is at least something of a player's coach - he has historically opted not to practice in the elements ahead of a game with inclement weather, he practices almost extreme caution when it comes to guys coming back from injury, and then obviously the Damar situation from last year kind of speaks for itself. I don't think he's quite as despised as people on here assume. 

 

But on the other hand, I think he's a bit "stifling" for sure. Look at the Diggs situation, for example. He wants guys to keep their trap shut to the media, keep EVERYTHING in house. Does that stop the drama from becoming a circus, or just make it worse? I don't know. But some of these guys, Allen and Diggs included, seem like they're ready to burst a gasket, lol. 

 

You can preach the team first process. You can take a my-way-or-the-highway attitude. Belichick and the Pats did it for years and players put up with it -- but that's cause they were always competing for a championship. And many times, they won. That buys a lot more tolerance from players. 

 

If the "process" doesn't pan out, that angst will definitely turn to resentment. That might be where we're at now...

Edited November 15, 2023 by Yobogoya!

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, Dubie54 said:

I was a real fan of McD and what the Bills had built in the years leading up to the 13 sec. game, then it all changed. I actually felt the response by the Bills to that game was the start of the downhill slide. There was no accountability for those last two plays on defense and I think the reason for that it is that McD was responsible for calling those defensive alignments. Beane was usual self in his measured comments and refused to go there. So we get to hypothesize and many of us pointed the finger at Frazier which took some of the heat off McD. Then Frazier get's slow walked out of the building the dark of night after another year which adds to the drama and speculation of how that play calling sequence actually went down. 

 

So here we are 21 months later and Dorsey gets canned after a loss in which our special teams played miserably and in effect lost the game with the 12 on the field debacle. What gets lost in the firing of Dorsey is the two all out blitzes that lead to TJ to be out on an island against a much taller receiver - and this is the same TJ who basically commits pass interference 50% of the times he's targeted. Peyton and Wilson had to be licking their chops, just like Andy Reid was on the defensive scheme we called in KC. But Dorsey takes the fall, which is well-deserved IMO, but I think is nothing more than a smoke screen for the bone head defense at the end of the game.

 

And then you have James Cook, who fumbles on his first carry and then goes right to the dog house. But Davis can drop passes, Allen can throw INTs, players can miss tackles like the one Bernard missed that led to a late Denver 1st down, and yet Cook goes right to the bench. McD can call misguided defensive alignments and someone else gets fired. 

 

McD has ridden the generational talent of Allen as far as he can. When it comes to coaching in tight spots, when the pressure is at it's max, he folds, becomes predictable and then when his decisions fail, is he stepping up to the mike to take accountability?

 

There's a cancer in clubhouse and I think it starts with McD and the culture he has created. I get the feeling players are incredibly tight, afraid of making mistakes, and are just not comfortable. Sure it's all hypothesis, but at least it's based on what is seen on and off the field. If you were a player, would you want to be playing in the McD environment? 

 

   

I am not a fan of the word "culture" with sports; I think it's meaningless nonsense.  Sports fans LOVE to discuss lots of meaningless nonsense.  My favorite is: "We just didn't want it bad enough."
 

Anyway, of course McDimwit needs to go; some of us were on this 2 years ago or more....

 

He will do everything he possibly can to save his skin and keep his job.

Our future rests in the hands of one man: Terry Pegula.  Only he knows where he stands with McD right now and how ready he is to fire his ass at the end of the season.

 

 

[Chaos]

McDermott has identifed the real problem. Culture is fine.  The problem is the sub-culture:

 

Joe Buscaglia

@JoeBuscaglia

Bills HC Sean McDermott said with the new leadership at OC, he wants the offense to establish a sub-culture as part of the team's overall culture to help foster confidence and energy and focus on doing things they need to do that leads to winning.

https://x.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/1724853998455321038?s=20

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

McDermott has identifed the real problem. Culture is fine.  The problem is the sub-culture:

 

Joe Buscaglia

@JoeBuscaglia

Bills HC Sean McDermott said with the new leadership at OC, he wants the offense to establish a sub-culture as part of the team's overall culture to help foster confidence and energy and focus on doing things they need to do that leads to winning.

https://x.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/1724853998455321038?s=20

 

So... the Process is a pyramid scheme now?

[ndirish1978]

I don't care about this "accountability to the fans" nonsense. I do think he needs to own his mistakes in public because the team obviously sees this and it's likely to create resentment.

[drummernut74]

On 11/10/2023 at 2:44 PM, drummernut74 said:

That’s because They like and trust their coach who they know can get them over the top … and won’t slave drive them only to choke when it matters most. That’s the difference 

 

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

McDermott has identifed the real problem. Culture is fine.  The problem is the sub-culture:

 

Joe Buscaglia

@JoeBuscaglia

Bills HC Sean McDermott said with the new leadership at OC, he wants the offense to establish a sub-culture as part of the team's overall culture to help foster confidence and energy and focus on doing things they need to do that leads to winning.

https://x.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/1724853998455321038?s=20

Can I have some Ranch dressing with this word salad please 🤣🤣🤣

[Chaos]

I just want him to say. “I f’d up by standing around doing nothing, when I should have been making sure we were ready to execute the substitutions for the FG try. But in my defense I had already given up and accepted we were losing the game”

 

Because 70,000 in person eye witnesses saw this happen.  

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

There are a few words used by McD and co. that can be fired into the sun.  In No particular order:

 

Culture, Process, Love, low positive, playoff caliber.

 

It's about show me now, not lip service

 

Style over substance.  

 

At some point there's not going to be anyone left to plausibly fire.  

 

We may be at that point.  

 

Firing the Salgabo's of the team ain't gonna cut it anymore.  We're into the coordinators now.  

 

 

[Gregg]

I will be curious to see on the CBS pregame show this week if McDermott's job security will come up for after the season. You know they will talk about the Dorsey firing and the Bills disappointing season at some point.

[Dubie54]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

McDermott has identifed the real problem. Culture is fine.  The problem is the sub-culture:

 

Joe Buscaglia

@JoeBuscaglia

Bills HC Sean McDermott said with the new leadership at OC, he wants the offense to establish a sub-culture as part of the team's overall culture to help foster confidence and energy and focus on doing things they need to do that leads to winning.

https://x.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/1724853998455321038?s=20

So the sub-culture will be focused on doing things "right" as opposed to the old culture which was focused on doing things wrong.

[zow2]

Kills me to see this online today. But the Bills Denver game is voted the #1 whackiest ending to a game so far this season.  Last year it was Bills Minnesota. Both home losses of course.  That’s the culture created here… and i’m sure 13 seconds was the season before.

Edited November 15, 2023 by zow2

[SoCal Deek]

This happens in many companies: the new guy comes in and turns around a failing organization. Not that hard to do, as the organization was…failing! But when that new guy is tested by his own failure he doesn’t have the answers to make the necessary corrections. In short, McD is a one trick pony and his Process nonsense has run its course with the team. He has no answers. 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Why does Cook get benched for fumbling but Davis doesn't for dropping the ball into the safety's hands

Not specifically defending Davis, but drops happen with every WR.  In one case a player has possession of the ball and has it taken away.  In the other case, possession was not established.  Ideally professional receivers would catch everything that hits there hands.  I don't know why that doesn't happen.  Also, isn't Davis the player in possession of the incriminating photos?