McD, Accountability, and Culture

[Dubie54]

I was a real fan of McD and what the Bills had built in the years leading up to the 13 sec. game, then it all changed. I actually felt the response by the Bills to that game was the start of the downhill slide. There was no accountability for those last two plays on defense and I think the reason for that it is that McD was responsible for calling those defensive alignments. Beane was usual self in his measured comments and refused to go there. So we get to hypothesize and many of us pointed the finger at Frazier which took some of the heat off McD. Then Frazier get's slow walked out of the building the dark of night after another year which adds to the drama and speculation of how that play calling sequence actually went down. 

 

So here we are 21 months later and Dorsey gets canned after a loss in which our special teams played miserably and in effect lost the game with the 12 on the field debacle. What gets lost in the firing of Dorsey is the two all out blitzes that lead to TJ to be out on an island against a much taller receiver - and this is the same TJ who basically commits pass interference 50% of the times he's targeted. Peyton and Wilson had to be licking their chops, just like Andy Reid was on the defensive scheme we called in KC. But Dorsey takes the fall, which is well-deserved IMO, but I think is nothing more than a smoke screen for the bone head defense at the end of the game.

 

And then you have James Cook, who fumbles on his first carry and then goes right to the dog house. But Davis can drop passes, Allen can throw INTs, players can miss tackles like the one Bernard missed that led to a late Denver 1st down, and yet Cook goes right to the bench. McD can call misguided defensive alignments and someone else gets fired. 

 

McD has ridden the generational talent of Allen as far as he can. When it comes to coaching in tight spots, when the pressure is at it's max, he folds, becomes predictable and then when his decisions fail, is he stepping up to the mike to take accountability?

 

There's a cancer in clubhouse and I think it starts with McD and the culture he has created. I get the feeling players are incredibly tight, afraid of making mistakes, and are just not comfortable. Sure it's all hypothesis, but at least it's based on what is seen on and off the field. If you were a player, would you want to be playing in the McD environment? 

 

   

[drummernut74]

The only unaccountable person at One Bills Drive is Sean McDermott.  He doesn't hold himself accountable, he isn't held accountable by Ownership and Management, and expects everyone else to be accountable and to "learn".  This is the entire issue ... he's been responsible for the major blunders, and then scapegoats out.  The players know it, and they're sick of him and his "Process" message.   Ever see Dan Campbell from the Lions?  I saw him take the microphone podium after a game they lost, and publicly admit that it was HIM that screwed up and cost the team the game (and he was crying while doing it).  All you get from McD is .. "we didn't execute" and "we have to get better" or "we'll learn from this".  McD is Terry's Pet Poodle, and untouchable Golden Boy ... and everyone ELSE has had enough

[BADOLBILZ]

13 minutes ago, drummernut74 said:

The only unaccountable person at One Bills Drive is Sean McDermott.  He doesn't hold himself accountable, he isn't held accountable by Ownership and Management, and expects everyone else to be accountable and to "learn".  This is the entire issue ... he's been responsible for the major blunders, and then scapegoats out.  The players know it, and they're sick of him and his "Process" message.   Ever see Dan Campbell from the Lions?  I saw him take the microphone podium after a game they lost, and publicly admit that it was HIM that screwed up and cost the team the game (and he was crying while doing it).  All you get from McD is .. "we didn't execute" and "we have to get better" or "we'll learn from this".  McD is Terry's Pet Poodle, and untouchable Golden Boy ... and everyone ELSE has had enough

 

 

In fairness, we don't know how much accountability he takes with the team.   There are countless times he's said "it starts with me" when addressing failures.   I go back to the Nathan Peterman debacle when he apologized to the team for making the change at QB.   The team then bounced out of maybe the worst 3 game stretch of football in franchise history and upset KC on the road on their way to a 9-7 finish.   I don't think self accountability is among the bigger concerns with McD.    

[Yobogoya!]

I get the sentiment here and certainly there's a lot to criticize when it comes to McD, but I don't get the fans asking to see "accountability" as if the man is supposed to... what? Is he supposed to fire himself? 

 

Just because a HC isn't immediately let go doesn't mean he's not being held accountable. I think sports fans are too quick to think of a coach being fired as the only acceptable response when a coach f's up. 

 

But just for some perspective, Andy Reid had some brutal playoff losses in Kansas City before Mahomes came along (to say nothing of his consecutive NFC championship game losses in Philly). Now he's paired with an elite QB and is leading the new NFL dynasty. The majority opinion after KC's 2015 divisional loss to the Patriots was "same old Andy Reid chokes in the postseason, he'll never win it all." If he was "held accountable" after that game and fired, is KC where they're at right now? 

 

I think Terry is in a tough position. McDermott and Beane have given Buffalo sports the most consistent success we've seen in over twenty years. Now I firmly believe Josh Allen deserve the bulk of the credit for that, but if we're holding McDermott responsible for the brutal losses, we also have to give him some credit for the success as well. 

 

Just trying to play some devil's advocate. 

[CodeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

I get the sentiment here and certainly there's a lot to criticize when it comes to McD, but I don't get the fans asking to see "accountability" as if the man is supposed to... what? Is he supposed to fire himself? 

 

Just because a HC isn't immediately let go doesn't mean he's not being held accountable. I think sports fans are too quick to think of a coach being fired as the only acceptable response when a coach f's up. 

 

But just for some perspective, Andy Reid had some brutal playoff losses in Kansas City before Mahomes came along (to say nothing of his consecutive NFC championship game losses in Philly). Now he's paired with an elite QB and is leading the new NFL dynasty. The majority opinion after KC's 2015 divisional loss to the Patriots was "same old Andy Reid chokes in the postseason, he'll never win it all." If he was "held accountable" after that game and fired, is KC where they're at right now? 

 

I think Terry is in a tough position. McDermott and Beane have given Buffalo sports the most consistent success we've seen in over twenty years. Now I firmly believe Josh Allen deserve the bulk of the credit for that, but if we're holding McDermott responsible for the brutal losses, we also have to give him some credit for the success as well. 

 

Just trying to play some devil's advocate. 

I think a great deal of the time fans are just mad and want someone fired even if it doesn't make great sense.

Dorsey for example, they fire him in a already short week, where the next opponent is a divisional game where said opponent beat you earlier in the year.  Did it make sense to fire Dorsey now rather than a few weeks ago, or in a few weeks?

But blood lust needed to be satisfied.

Edited November 15, 2023 by CodeMonkey

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, CodeMonkey said:

I think a great deal of the time fans are just mad and want someone fired even if it doesn't make great sense.

Dorsey for example, they fire him in a already short week, where the next opponent is a divisional game where said opponent beat you earlier in the year.  Did it make sense to fire Dorsey now rather than a few weeks ago, or in a few weeks?

But blood lust needed to be satisfied.

 

Yeah that's the mob mentality that we humans love so much at work there. 

 

Not that I wasn't for moving on from Dorsey, but as you say, was this the right time? 

 

For me, I'd have either done it before Cinci (10 days prep) or just waited for the bye week. But whatevs. 🤷‍♂️

[Dablitzkrieg]

There are a few words used by McD and co. that can be fired into the sun.  In No particular order:

 

Culture, Process, Love, low positive, playoff caliber.

 

It's about show me now, not lip service

Edited November 15, 2023 by Dablitzkrieg

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

4 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

I get the sentiment here and certainly there's a lot to criticize when it comes to McD, but I don't get the fans asking to see "accountability" as if the man is supposed to... what? Is he supposed to fire himself? 

 

Just because a HC isn't immediately let go doesn't mean he's not being held accountable. I think sports fans are too quick to think of a coach being fired as the only acceptable response when a coach f's up. 

 

But just for some perspective, Andy Reid had some brutal playoff losses in Kansas City before Mahomes came along (to say nothing of his consecutive NFC championship game losses in Philly). Now he's paired with an elite QB and is leading the new NFL dynasty. The majority opinion after KC's 2015 divisional loss to the Patriots was "same old Andy Reid chokes in the postseason, he'll never win it all." If he was "held accountable" after that game and fired, is KC where they're at right now? 

 

I think Terry is in a tough position. McDermott and Beane have given Buffalo sports the most consistent success we've seen in over twenty years. Now I firmly believe Josh Allen deserve the bulk of the credit for that, but if we're holding McDermott responsible for the brutal losses, we also have to give him some credit for the success as well. 

 

Just trying to play some devil's advocate. 

 

I find the Andy Reid comparisons interesting. 

 

1) Reid had more playoff success in Philly than McD has in Buffalo. While McNabb was no slouch, it's clear that Allen is the better QB.

 

2) Philly fired Reid, the most successful HC in team history, before they won a SB

 

3) Philly only won a SB after firing Reid

 

4) Philly fired that SB winning coach, Pederson, 3 years later. They made the SB again with the next HC 2 years later

 

If Reid needed Mahomes to get over the playoff hump to win a SB, what does McD need? 

[Fleezoid]

3 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

I think a great deal of the time fans are just mad and want someone fired even if it doesn't make great sense.

Dorsey for example, they fire him in a already short week, where the next opponent is a divisional game where said opponent beat you earlier in the year.  Did it make sense to fire Dorsey now rather than a few weeks ago, or in a few weeks?

But blood lust needed to be satisfied.

 

It makes more sense to fire him now than in a few weeks, but makes less sense to not have fired him a couple of weeks ago. We all saw what was happening to this offense, yet they had to wait until the proverbial straw broke the back. There was no way we were beating the Jets with Dorsey running the offense. At least now the offense may have a pulse. We'll see on Sunday. 

[Yobogoya!]

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I find the Andy Reid comparisons interesting. 

 

1) Reid had more playoff success in Philly than McD has in Buffalo. While McNabb was no slouch, it's clear that Allen is the better QB.

 

2) Philly fired Reid, the most successful HC in team history, before they won a SB

 

3) Philly only won a SB after firing Reid

 

4) Philly fired that SB winning coach, Pederson, 3 years later. They made the SB again with the next HC 2 years later

 

If Reid needed Mahomes to get over the playoff hump to win a SB, what does McD need? 

 

Yeah there's a lot of ways to look at those points you made. Obviously Philly thought Reid would never get them over the hump - in a sense, they were right. 

 

But also, Reid's won two championships since then and has over the course of his career got considerable production from QB's like McNabb and also Alex Smith. Guys who are probably mid or high-level journeymen in any other offensive scheme. 

 

The big problem with McDermott is it's hard to justify his value, especially in the context of having an elite QB. 

 

He's a solid defensive coordinator, and in some ways he and Frazier innovated the modern "big nickel" defense that's all the rage right now. But his situational decision-making, the level of preparedness we see on a week to week basis? It's not great. As a guy who can't coordinate the offensive side of the ball, he has to prove he's among the Harbaugh's and Belichick's of the world when it comes to getting this team's overall execution at a high level. 

 

If he can't do that, what's the difference between him and the next hot up-and-coming OC? That's where we're at, at this point. 

[Dablitzkrieg]

McCulture

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I think McD was happy to talk about how it all starts with him when we were winning. I've seen a McD this season who acts like he's in a self-salvation mode. The losing and pressure are apparent in this whole organization right now. And, I see a leader who is playing to a mantra of the "buck stops below me". Sorry but's that what I take, not just from his comments this year, but moreso the actions.

Edited November 15, 2023 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Dubie54]

35 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In fairness, we don't know how much accountability he takes with the team.   There are countless times he's said "it starts with me" when addressing failures.   I go back to the Nathan Peterman debacle when he apologized to the team for making the change at QB.   The team then bounced out of maybe the worst 3 game stretch of football in franchise history and upset KC on the road on their way to a 9-7 finish.   I don't think self accountability is among the bigger concerns with McD.    

True - we don’t know what accountability he takes with the team, but we do see the lack of accountability he takes with the fans.

[Nephilim17]

To me the question is: he may or may not be accountable to the team and ownership, but is he accountable to the fans (I think not) and is he obligated to be accountable to the fans?

Do we fans deserve more accountability for 13 seconds and games like the Broncos game? Or do we just pay our money/watch our screens and take what they give us and that's it?

I'm not being facetious. I'm actually not sure but I think I can construct arguments both ways.

[schoolhouserock]

I loathe the word “accountability”.

 

It is one of those words that people use and assume that others know what they mean. Except they don’t. In fact, I think very few people have the same definition of “accountability”.

 

Anytime I hear it, it is like nails on the chalkboard. Regardless of who says it - McD, a TBD poster, or my mother.

[SoonerBillsFan]

I said this earlier and it still holds true, I feel if Kim Pegula hadn't had her cardiac event and was 100$...McDermott would have been fired after the Cinci game in January.  The regression is obvious.  

 

 

[Dubie54]

3 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

To me the question is: he may or may not be accountable to the team and ownership, but is he accountable to the fans (I think not) and is he obligated to be accountable to the fans?

Do we fans deserve more accountability for 13 seconds and games like the Broncos game? Or do we just pay our money/watch our screens and take what they give us and that's it?

I'm not being facetious. I'm actually not sure but I think I can construct arguments both ways.

Totally agree he is ultimately accountable to the team and ownership, but I would argue he also bears some degree of accountability to the fans, as aren't we the one's filling the stadiums each week?  

[GoBills808]

Why does Cook get benched for fumbling but Davis doesn't for dropping the ball into the safety's hands

[BigPappaPump]

That’s a question that I wish the media would ask him. Would be curious if he gave an honest answer 

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, Dubie54 said:

I was a real fan of McD and what the Bills had built in the years leading up to the 13 sec. game, then it all changed. I actually felt the response by the Bills to that game was the start of the downhill slide. There was no accountability for those last two plays on defense and I think the reason for that it is that McD was responsible for calling those defensive alignments. Beane was usual self in his measured comments and refused to go there. So we get to hypothesize and many of us pointed the finger at Frazier which took some of the heat off McD. Then Frazier get's slow walked out of the building the dark of night after another year which adds to the drama and speculation of how that play calling sequence actually went down. 

 

So here we are 21 months later and Dorsey gets canned after a loss in which our special teams played miserably and in effect lost the game with the 12 on the field debacle. What gets lost in the firing of Dorsey is the two all out blitzes that lead to TJ to be out on an island against a much taller receiver - and this is the same TJ who basically commits pass interference 50% of the times he's targeted. Peyton and Wilson had to be licking their chops, just like Andy Reid was on the defensive scheme we called in KC. But Dorsey takes the fall, which is well-deserved IMO, but I think is nothing more than a smoke screen for the bone head defense at the end of the game.

 

And then you have James Cook, who fumbles on his first carry and then goes right to the dog house. But Davis can drop passes, Allen can throw INTs, players can miss tackles like the one Bernard missed that led to a late Denver 1st down, and yet Cook goes right to the bench. McD can call misguided defensive alignments and someone else gets fired. 

 

McD has ridden the generational talent of Allen as far as he can. When it comes to coaching in tight spots, when the pressure is at it's max, he folds, becomes predictable and then when his decisions fail, is he stepping up to the mike to take accountability?

 

There's a cancer in clubhouse and I think it starts with McD and the culture he has created. I get the feeling players are incredibly tight, afraid of making mistakes, and are just not comfortable. Sure it's all hypothesis, but at least it's based on what is seen on and off the field. If you were a player, would you want to be playing in the McD environment? 

 

   

 

Ultimately he is accountable not only to his bosses (the Pegulas), but a good leader is also accountable to those he or she leads. There has been rumors that is not the case, particularly where the 13 seconds debacle is concerned. I believe the anonymous player quote was that he demands accountability from everyone, but does not reciprocate. He didn’t do anything of the sort publicly, and there’s no reports of it happening privately. Other than generic platitudes, like “it starts with me” (and those are worthless), I have seen nothing that makes me think he feels as though he is accountable to those who leads.