is there a HC out there worth going after?

[davefan66]

I hate the idea of starting fresh.  Not knowing if it will actually work out.  If it happens I’d want it to be a proven commodity.  Someone with access to a proven staff.  Pretty high standards I guess.

 

I do feel the present staff, McD included, are on borrowed time.  The worst thing that could happen is McD axes more staff to save his hide and prolongs the agony.  
 

Regardless, Beane is smart enough to understand the room and do what’s right.  If the players are behind McD, he stays.  If not? Gone.  

[Buffalo03]

This is my thing with McDermott. Am I ok with firing him after the season? Yes. However, is this the type of team you want a first time head coach with? Like a Kellen Moore or something? I'd almost rather go with a coach with past HC experience that has had playoff success. Jim Cladwell is a guy I'm surprised doesn't get more attention. The guy was the last coach I believe to take the Lions to the playoffs TWICE in a 4 year time frame. That alone, is magnificent lol

[stuvian]

57 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

When the "fire McD" topic came up after 13 seconds, I mused if the Bills were in a similar situation that Denver was in with John Elway and Dan Reeves.

 

Reeves was a great coach, but couldn't get over the hump. Reeves fired his OC as a scapegoat, and when they canned Reeves, they brought back his fired OC to replace Reeves... The rest is history. 

 

The only guy I saw available at the time who could potentially be an offensive mind to take the Bills further than McD was Doug Pederson. And I think the job he's doing with Jax is proof that he's a solid offensive minded head coach.

 

With that said, I'd rather have Daboll as HC than McD. Would rather spend assets to build the offense around Josh over the next 3-5 seasons than expend so much capital on a McDermott defense that has never played consistently at a championship level. 

 

I also like the idea of bringing in Ben Johnson and giving Josh all the advantages that are being afforded to Jared Goff. That is to say, designing and offense that makes it easy on the QB. That leverages play design to scheme guys open instead of relying on a read and react / option route approach. 

 

I also hope we can get a top 5 wr in this upcoming draft. Someone that has that true #1 potential in all aspects of his game... 

I was a big Dan Reeves fan too but I think exhuming him is a little weird 

[DrDawkinstein]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Monken seems like a career coordinator in the NFL and not someone who will be a good HC.

 

It's tough to say what makes a good HC in the modern NFL where players are mainly Gen Z.

 

I dont think any of us old timers would've thought Mike McDaniel would last a day in a classic football locker room. But players are eating up his style and message.

 

Additionally, I'd even argue that at this level, players dont need as much coaching as they need schemers who will put them in positions to succeed and then GTFO of their way. The Head Coach is mainly handling game management stuff.

 

If the Offense is hot and scoring points, the entire team will motivate itself. Our guys know how to catch, they know how to hold onto the ball, they know how to tackle. They must to make it this far. The reason they arent is because they dont believe in leadership.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

No to Matt Nagy, I'd rather keep McDermott for a lifetime before you hire him

There's actually a lot to be curious about with Nagy. If we are being real, everything in Chicago starts with poor ownership. Yet somehow the dude found the playoffs twice with Trubisky and Foles at QB. Would be interested to see what he would accomplish with better QB play. He's a fan of using both short WCO routes as well as using the deep ball to open things up. 

 

He's got a reputation for making players buy in and engage by having THEM design some plays (exactly something Andy Reid is lauded for). He's not afraid to take chances and use gadget plays as well. For the "this team isn't having fun anymore" crowd....this keeps it fun for the players. He uses a LOT of RPO, which is something Allen does well. He has this one play he uses effectively.... it's called a SCREEN PLAY. Motion and misdirection. He's quite literally a LOT of what fans are screaming for. When looking into possible coaches for next year one thing he was quoted as saying really caught my eye.

 

 "What can happen, as a player, is you think you need to maybe try a little harder, you may have to act a little different – don't do that. Just be yourself. Do what got you here. As coaches, don't change. If you have a certain style of teaching, then teach that way. Don't change because now you're in the NFL"

 

Darn it all of this doesn't sound like a guy that will allow Josh Allen to play like JOSH FREAKING ALLEN. 

 

The NFL has a long history of guys that flamed out in their first coaching stint, learned and went on to success. Sure, you can point to some that didn't as well. But let me ask this. Many people were uneasy about handing the offense to a neophyte OC that had never held the position before. Why would you be eager to turn the ENTIRE TEAM over to someone brand new to the position? I want experience, and Nagy has that. 

[stuvian]

Vrabel, Harbaugh or Brian Flores

[Huh? What?]

I'm intrigued about Orvlosky... he does seem tuned into the pro game... but, he's not coming as OC (maybe making 2-3 million a yeas as that hire)... Cushy job now, kids... he'll will want double that amount and HC... which I have to admit, is maybe not that a bad idea to try... working with Josh's 7-10 year pro years. No offense to McDermott, he has done a great job, with Beane righting the SS Bills (we were the SS Minnow for many years)... but the room does seem to be lost... Orvlosky is media keyed in, which I think a lot of the younger players relate to now.... Heck, McDermott's zoom call yesterday, kept flashing Windows 10... the man can't even figure out a witty screen saver....

Edited November 15, 2023 by Huh? What?
new wording

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's tough to say what makes a good HC in the modern NFL where players are mainly Gen Z.

 

I dont think any of us old timers would've thought Mike McDaniel would last a day in a classic football locker room. But players are eating up his style and message.

 

Additionally, I'd even argue that at this level, players dont need as much coaching as they need schemers who will put them in positions to succeed and then GTFO of their way. The Head Coach is mainly handling game management stuff.

 

If the Offense is hot and scoring points, the entire team will motivate itself.

He’ll be 58 before the season is over. Seems unlikely that’s the kind of guy teams go for these days. 

[Gregg]

Any coaches in college besides Harbaugh that could be a good fit for the Bills?

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He’ll be 58 before the season is over. Seems unlikely that’s the kind of guy teams go for these days. 

 

Did you mean to quote me?

[Logic]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet, but:

Bobby Slowik, OC for the Houston Texans.

The latest coach from the Shanahan, McVay, McDaniels, LaFleur group. Just 36 years old.

If he can do what he's currently doing with a rookie QB and Noah Brown and Tank Dell as his receivers, imagine what he can do with Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, and Dalton Kincaid.

Sure, he'd be an unknown as a head coach, but I'd rather take a swing on someone that can maximize Josh's talent than go with some stale re-tread.

Things have worked pretty well for coaches from this coaching tree lately. And as for Slowik specifically, the proof is in the pudding with the explosive Texans offense.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Logic

[dpberr]

The questions for the Pegulas is a tough one.  It's the question of whether your good coach can be great, and if he's not great, is "great" readily available?   

 

Is Sean McDermott circa 2000 Wade Phillips? 

Or is he circa 2000 Buccaneers Tony Dungy? 

Or is he Marty Schottenheimer?

 

It's a risky question to answer. You pick Gregg Williams (what the Bills did and began the great playoff drought) or Jon Gruden (what the Bucs did and the Bucs win a Super Bowl) or stick with him (Schottenheimer) and win a lot of regular season games but nothing past that.

 

Sometimes it's purely situational being the right coach for the right time.  Tony Dungy couldn't get the Bucs over the hump but he goes to Indianapolis and succeeds in doing so.  

 

 

 

  

 

 

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Any coaches in college besides Harbaugh that could be a good fit for the Bills?

 

Just kidding. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Cheektowaga Chad]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

There's actually a lot to be curious about with Nagy. If we are being real, everything in Chicago starts with poor ownership. Yet somehow the dude found the playoffs twice with Trubisky and Foles at QB. Would be interested to see what he would accomplish with better QB play. He's a fan of using both short WCO routes as well as using the deep ball to open things up. 

 

He's got a reputation for making players buy in and engage by having THEM design some plays (exactly something Andy Reid is lauded for). He's not afraid to take chances and use gadget plays as well. For the "this team isn't having fun anymore" crowd....this keeps it fun for the players. He uses a LOT of RPO, which is something Allen does well. He has this one play he uses effectively.... it's called a SCREEN PLAY. Motion and misdirection. He's quite literally a LOT of what fans are screaming for. When looking into possible coaches for next year one thing he was quoted as saying really caught my eye.

 

 "What can happen, as a player, is you think you need to maybe try a little harder, you may have to act a little different – don't do that. Just be yourself. Do what got you here. As coaches, don't change. If you have a certain style of teaching, then teach that way. Don't change because now you're in the NFL"

 

Darn it all of this doesn't sound like a guy that will allow Josh Allen to play like JOSH FREAKING ALLEN. 

 

The NFL has a long history of guys that flamed out in their first coaching stint, learned and went on to success. Sure, you can point to some that didn't as well. But let me ask this. Many people were uneasy about handing the offense to a neophyte OC that had never held the position before. Why would you be eager to turn the ENTIRE TEAM over to someone brand new to the position? I want experience, and Nagy has that. 

I would like experience as well but want winning experience and that's something likely not available

 

Making the playoffs with trubisky and foles is interesting but Nagy often is seen as the guy that ruined trubisky with how he handled him

 

To me he comes across as another Adam gase - guy who has had success with the best QB in the league then struggles elsewhere

 

What other coaches at the head coach level have failed elsewhere then succeed on the second try?  I can only think of belicheck

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet, but:

Bobby Slowik, OC for the Houston Texans.

The latest coach from the Shanahan, McVay, McDaniels, LaFleur group. Just 36 years old.

If he can do what he's currently doing with a rookie QB and Noah Brown and Tank Dell as his receivers, imagine what he can do with Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, and Dalton Kincaid.

Sure, he'd be an unknown as a head coach, but I'd rather take a swing on someone that can maximize Josh's talent than go with some stale re-tread.

Things have worked pretty well for coaches from this coaching tree lately. And as for Slowik specifically, the proof is in the pudding with the explosive Texans offense.

Guy has also coached on the defensive side of the ball early in his coaching career if I remember correctly 

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Funny you mention a coach-for-coach trade.

 

I was just thinking last night if we could pull one off with the Giants.

 

They get McD who is good for fixing a bottom-5 team. We get Dabol who our players love and would fix our offense.

 

Git r dun

 

 

Just pure speculation but i think Dabol may have worn out his welcome in Buffalo.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Just pure speculation but i think Dabol may have worn out his welcome in Buffalo.  

 

With who?

[JoeF]

[Dablitzkrieg]

Just now, JoeF said:

Can he count to 11?

[Logic]

6 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

 

Guy has also coached on the defensive side of the ball early in his coaching career if I remember correctly 

Correct.

Was a defensive coach on that Redskins staff that had Shanahan, McVay, McDaniels, and LaFleur. Is currently running a successful offense with what most would agree are a lot less talented parts than what the Bills have. 

I think either Ben Johnson or Slowik would be the logical choices if the Bills want to go with an offensive guy, which they should.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, JoeF said:

 

I know youre mostly joking, and his methods simply do not work with modern players anymore, but he would definitely have the guys ready for situational football like lining up for a field goal.