Second blitz at end of game

[boyst]

  On 11/15/2023 at 9:32 PM, HoofHearted said:

We did generate pressure. Ed was a monster all night. That’s why we didn’t blitz a whole lot. Did you watch the game?

Expand  

i should have said the pressure did not do enough to change the game or alter the efficiency of wilson.

[HappyDays]

  On 11/15/2023 at 9:32 PM, HoofHearted said:

We did generate pressure. Ed was a monster all night. That’s why we didn’t blitz a whole lot. Did you watch the game?

Expand  

 

Maybe you saw it differently but I thought a lot of the pressure was undisciplined. Like Oliver running right by Wilson at full speed and giving him an easy lane to step up into multiple times. Sure it counts as a pressure but it doesn't lead to a negative outcome. Or a blitzer failing to account for the leaking RB - we gave up big 1st downs several times on this same play, and it was especially frustrating to see Denver hit it on their first play of the last drive for a big gain which immediately took the pressure off them and put our defense on its heels. I don't understand why we hadn't adjusted to it by then.

 

I watch other defenses against us and they wisely have spies making sure Allen can't just step up like that or dump the ball off to a RB with 10 yards of separation. They do a mush rush where they barely even try to sack Allen off the snap, they instead prioritize making sure he can't escape the pocket and slowly compress in on him from all sides. Whereas I felt that most of the night our pressure looks let Wilson off the hook and gave him easy answers.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by HappyDays

[HoofHearted]

  On 11/15/2023 at 10:05 PM, HappyDays said:

 

Maybe you saw it differently but I thought a lot of the pressure was undisciplined. Like Oliver running right by Wilson at full speed and giving him an easy lane to step up into multiple times. Sure it counts as a pressure but it doesn't lead to a negative outcome. Or a blitzer failing to account for the leaking RB - we gave up big 1st downs several times on this same play, and it was especially frustrating to see Denver hit it on their first play of the last drive for a big gain which immediately took the pressure off them and put our defense on its heels. I don't understand why we hadn't adjusted to it by then.

 

I watch other defenses against us and they wisely have spies making sure Allen can't just step up like that or dump the ball off to a RB with 10 yards of separation. They do a mush rush where they barely even try to sack Allen off the snap, they instead prioritize making sure he can't escape the pocket and slowly compress in on him from all sides. Whereas I felt that most of the night our pressure looks let Wilson off the hook and gave him easy answers.

 

Expand  

100% - we had poor rush integrity all night. We did a poor job with our low box/hi box rules. Ed was winning all night though.

[HappyDays]

  On 11/15/2023 at 10:13 PM, HoofHearted said:

Ed was winning all night though.

Expand  

 

So my one point of contention is that with mobile QBs, beating the OL in front of you isn't enough to count as a win. If you beat your man and then rush yourself out of the play I wouldn't really call that a win. It's just a good 1v1 rep. But I understand what you're saying.

[JerseyBills]

  On 11/15/2023 at 3:06 AM, Dick_Cheney said:

Yes, just with a positive result. 

Expand  

Hater.. 

Some of yall really prefer the negativity on here. ***** is mind boggling. Lose faith, root for Mahomes and Mr Phizer just f off. We're the mother******* Buffalo Bills

Keep that energy when we're hoisting a trophy 

[Snappysnackcakes]

  On 11/15/2023 at 9:32 PM, HoofHearted said:

We did generate pressure. Ed was a monster all night. That’s why we didn’t blitz a whole lot. Did you watch the game?

Expand  

And we now see why arm length is really important at DT. 

[Alphadawg7]

  On 11/15/2023 at 9:16 PM, NewEra said:

Whatever floats your boat man.  Seems strange to blame every single loss 💯 on the offense. Can’t subscribe to the defense getting zero blame in the patriot game especially 

Expand  

 

Remember when we got 0 points on the half yard line because Dorsey ran the ball in shotgun for the 2nd time in back to back weeks on 3rd and goal inside the 1?  We just sneak that for a TD we are up 2 scores on that last drive and it doesn't matter.  Not to mention other drive killing issues that also kept points off the board.  

 

All good though bud

[Simon]

  On 11/15/2023 at 9:32 PM, HoofHearted said:

We did generate pressure. Ed was a monster all night. That’s why we didn’t blitz a whole lot. Did you watch the game?

Expand  

 

This is actually one of my problems with that 2nd blitz call.

Aside from the fact that you're telegraphing to a veteran QB that you're again leaving your corners out to dry, that entire series Oliver was pushing the pocket down after down after down and there was not a thing their OLine could do about it.

There was minimal upside to sending the house there again. There is no longer any element of surprise to create doubt or confusion, a veteran like Wilson is not going to take a sack there, none of our our DB's or LB's are particularly effective rushers, dropping that DE into coverage does nothing to improve it, etc. But there is a significant downside there where an unsuccessful blitz likely costs you the game in that spot, which it did. It was a foolish gamble with way more negative potential than positive.

All that needed to be done was to defend the sticks on 3rd down while the inevitable interior pressure forces Wilson into a too quick decision.

McDermott is a bit of a micromanager with an observable tendency to overcoach games and that was another example of it right there.

[starrymessenger]

  On 11/15/2023 at 7:32 PM, NoSaint said:

ultimately I think we are fully in agreement just talking about different elements of the play. 
 

id bet a significant sum that the play call was essentially verticals, with the instruction that if they come to pick the mismatch and whatever you do don’t over throw it. 
 

on an island and a 4.4 guy gets his release of the line  - I don’t care if you are the best nickel corner ever… unless you have help, that’s a great matchup for the offense.

 

sure McDermott created pressure but Payton gave every bit of the pressure back with what amounted to a more skilled and more prepared group of players that had the rules in their favor.

 

im not furious or anything but I do think we got one upped on that play by a smart coach-vet qb- good wr putting a decent corner in a very tough spot schematically 

Expand  

You know throughout the 4th quarter end of game I kept saying to myself "Payton must be getting a big kick out of this. Wonder how long and exactly how he will lower the boom on McD." Honestly.

[Simon]

  On 11/15/2023 at 7:04 PM, Snappysnackcakes said:

Tell me about it. I’m becoming increasingly convinced HoofHearted is lightly associated with the team. 

Expand  

 

I think it's more just human nature that one coach will tend to defend another coach when he's under attack by a bunch of half-clueless fans. 

[GrimboG]

I know this is page 7 now, but I still felt the need to join this thread and question WTF that was about! 

 

I live in Scotland and have never played football but could have adjusted to that in Payton/Wilsons position, which they did.

 

The Broncos seemed better prepared generally for those couple of plays. All more HC than OC

Edited November 16, 2023 by GrimboG

[HoofHearted]

  On 11/15/2023 at 11:51 PM, Simon said:

 

This is actually one of my problems with that 2nd blitz call.

Aside from the fact that you're telegraphing to a veteran QB that you're again leaving your corners out to dry, that entire series Oliver was pushing the pocket down after down after down and there was not a thing their OLine could do about it.

There was minimal upside to sending the house there again. There is no longer any element of surprise to create doubt or confusion, a veteran like Wilson is not going to take a sack there, none of our our DB's or LB's are particularly effective rushers, dropping that DE into coverage does nothing to improve it, etc. But there is a significant downside there where an unsuccessful blitz likely costs you the game in that spot, which it did. It was a foolish gamble with way more negative potential than positive.

All that needed to be done was to defend the sticks on 3rd down while the inevitable interior pressure forces Wilson into a too quick decision.

McDermott is a bit of a micromanager with an observable tendency to overcoach games and that was another example of it right there.

Expand  

Yep. That’s definitely the downside to playing man. From a purely schematic standpoint it was a good call. We got the matchups we wanted (Poyer and Demar 2v1 on a back). If Poyer hits it tighter Demar has a shot at the sack. Playing Man 7 took away the quick throw and forced them into a pass that hits about 35% of the time versus a ten yard completion that’s around 65%. Definitely a gamble. Definitely not as egregious as some are making it out to be.

[NoSaint]

  On 11/16/2023 at 1:19 AM, HoofHearted said:

Yep. That’s definitely the downside to playing man. From a purely schematic standpoint it was a good call. We got the matchups we wanted (Poyer and Demar 2v1 on a back). If Poyer hits it tighter Demar has a shot at the sack. Playing Man 7 took away the quick throw and forced them into a pass that hits about 35% of the time versus a ten yard completion that’s around 65%. Definitely a gamble. Definitely not as egregious as some are making it out to be.

Expand  

35% chance we never get the ball back vs much higher we get it back with a short throw is a consideration though.

[Mikie2times]

  On 11/16/2023 at 1:19 AM, HoofHearted said:

Yep. That’s definitely the downside to playing man. From a purely schematic standpoint it was a good call. We got the matchups we wanted (Poyer and Demar 2v1 on a back). If Poyer hits it tighter Demar has a shot at the sack. Playing Man 7 took away the quick throw and forced them into a pass that hits about 35% of the time versus a ten yard completion that’s around 65%. Definitely a gamble. Definitely not as egregious as some are making it out to be.

Expand  

Except the pressure was never going to get home because of the sequence of the plays. It had no element of surprise. 

[HoofHearted]

  On 11/16/2023 at 2:03 AM, Mikie2times said:

Except the pressure was never going to get home because of the sequence of the plays. It had no element of surprise. 

Expand  

I know this is going to come as a shocker to you so you might want to sit down, but pressure's don't get home because of the "element of surprise".

[Mikie2times]

  On 11/16/2023 at 2:08 AM, HoofHearted said:

I know this is going to come as a shocker to you so you might want to sit down, but pressure's don't get home because of the "element of surprise".

Expand  

I know this is going to come as a shocker to you so you might want to stand up. A QB can get rid of the ball faster than a defense can arrive. It's sort of like science or something. 

[HoofHearted]

  On 11/16/2023 at 2:09 AM, Mikie2times said:

I know this is going to come as a shocker to you so you might want to stand up. A QB can get rid of the ball faster than a defense can arrive. It's sort of like science or something. 

Expand  

Well damn, how are sacks even a thing then!?!?!? 😉

[Chaos]

  On 11/15/2023 at 11:51 PM, Simon said:

McDermott is a bit of a micromanager with an observable tendency to overcoach games and that was another example of it right there.

Expand  

I would describe my observation of this same tendency to be "McDermott tends to choke and make mistakes in crucial moments during tight games"

[boyst]

  On 11/16/2023 at 2:12 AM, HoofHearted said:

Well damn, how are sacks even a thing then!?!?!? 😉

Expand  

I know this may come as a shocker to you but discipline creates sacks. Strong coverage, good rush lanes, luck, etc.

 

Step off your high horse just a tad because people want to engage you and learn without you being a prick. They're gonna be one back if you're going to be one. Up to you.

[Ray Stonada]

“When the Bills are tied or leading by one score in the fourth quarter this season, McDermott’s vaunted defense drops to 28th in EPA/play, according to TruMedia. In the biggest moments, McDermott wilts.”

 

https://theathletic.com/5064917/2023/11/15/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-ken-dorsey/