We need to save Josh Allen by any means necessary (the fire is gone)

[bmur66]

Josh Allen is the franchise. Nothing else matters. Pegs must be the one.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

You are a real Josh Allen apologist.  Maybe the biggest on this board.  Use the eye test Cincy.  He has played like ***** of late. 

 

He of course is an NFL QB.  He is going to make some decent throws every game.  The throw to Shakir down the left sideline on our second TD drive.  The 30+ yarder to Gabe.  The first pick was Gabe's fault.  But the problem is he is turning the ball over way too much.  He is being paid big money to a big timer.  If we want turnovers and TD's, we can bring in Jameis Winston.  At least Jameis is not a head case.  Just like Fitzie.  They will keep letting it rip.  Do I dare say Josh seems like a sensitive guy.  He probably did not like Diggs calling him out last year in the Cinci playoff game.  I am surprised that Josh even pays any attention to McDermott.  If I were him, I would just ignore him.  And play the way I wanted to.  Do you think Brett Favre gave a ***** what Mike Holmgren or Mike Sherman said to him?  He was the team.  He knew it and all his teammates knew it.  Josh Allen will be here long after Clappy gets shown the door.  Which will likely be at the end of the season. 

 

He just needs to bare down and make plays and not overthink things.  I have noticed that he barely throws over the middle of the field anymore.  Way too much sideline stuff.  Get Kincaid Diggs and/or Shakir running down the seam.  Lots of room there.  Especially with play action.  He is a big boy making a lot of money.  Time to step up, stop pouting and act the part of a champion.  The league stops for nobody.  I never saw Jim Kelly pouting.  If he was upset he took it out on his teammates or the opposing team. 

 

McDermott is no football guru.  We need to win despite this guy until he is no more.  

I'll take your first sentence as a compliment except that rather then use the word "apologist" I would use the word "realist".  Over the years when Bills fans have periodically jumped out of the woodwork during rough patches and went after Allen tooth & claw I just point out the obvious.  You know the stuff that I see when taking my eye test:  Allen's overall production and the lack of high end complimentary offensive personnel and coaching that I see on other SB contending teams with elite QB's.

 

You say he's an NFL QB and he'll make some decent throws every game.  Fair enough.  But when I watch NFL & College football (and I watch a lot of both) I see offensive skill players making all sorts of amazing catches.  I see guys grabbing the ball inches off the ground or high pointing and coming down with contested catch after contested catch.  Little dump off throws get taken 75 yards to the house as O linemen throw great down field blocks and RB's break tackles & turn on the jets.

 

Now tell me what your eye test says about Bills skill players over the last couple of seasons?  Diggs had that awesome 55 yard YAC TD against Miami...............but how many other great plays do you recall our play makers actually making?  I recall a few Davis drops of 55 yard Allen passes from last season. And I'm not trying to be a smart a## here but do you remember our skill players making a lot of wow catches this or last season?  Just last night Wilson benefited from 2 great catches - a one handed catch that went for 20 yards and that amazing TD catch.  Meanwhile did our receivers make a single wow catch?  I saw a ball go through Davis hands for an INT instead of a 1st and goal and Diggs couldn't handle a low, but not that low, Allen throw that might have gone for 30 yards.  Yea I get that Allen needed to make a better throw there but wouldn't it be nice if Bills receivers actually made tough catches now and then?

 

And I don't see Allen "pouting" I see a man who looks down and out and is very frustrated.  Looking lost is not the same thing as pouting. And for the record, Kelly was NEVER expected to do for those SB Bills teams what Allen is expected to do for the Bills today.  Kelly had much better coaching and was surrounded with all pro and future HOF offensive talent.

 

 

 

 

[BillsPride12]

I was listening to One Bills Live at work today and Thurman Thomas was on there and Chris Brown asked him what those guys used to do to get out of a funk back in the day and he said something along the lines of Partying it up at Jim's house 🤣🤣 🤣

Yeah they could never win the big one but still such a legendary team!  

[ChevyVanMiller]

6 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I blame Hailee Steinfeld.

[bubba2018]

I like how people took my low positive thread more seriously than this

[BananaB]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

The Josh Allen we are seeing right now, is not who we saw the first 5 years off his career.

 

Even when he had bad stretches under Daboll, he still would come out fired up the next series. He was still ready to risk it all.

 

His fire is GONE. When he scores now, he just jogs off the field.

 

Example: After we took the lead with 2 minutes to go last night, he started to just jog off the field (zero celebration). Spencer Brown tried to get him excited and lifted him into the air. 

 

Three years ago he’d be screaming his head off and amping everyone up. Now his facial express to being hoisted after a go-ahead TD is the face of someone who looks like they’re battling depression. And no, this is not a deceptive screenshot - this is how he looked the entire post TD celebration.

 

 

 

The fire is gone and, Simon, I apologize for the salty language, but that friggin terrifies me!!!

 

Where has this gone?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

And this?

 

 

I genuinely believe that McDermott’s “never too high, never too low” mentality has absolutely zombified what made Allen special.

 

I think it’s no coincidence that McD and Daboll didn’t get along, and Josh is becoming more and more like this as the months pass without Daboll as his coach.

 

 

Must realize there is nothing to celebrate until the clock hits zero. Doesn’t matter if there is 2 minutes or 13 seconds

[Matt_In_NH]

His body language gives off depressed vibes IMO, his energy is different but at the same time he is performing in a lot of ways.  It is weird.   I know everyone wanted Dorsey gone and they got that wish.....but he is a scapegoat of sorts.  There are a lot of advanced stats that show the Bills are very good on offense, the problem is they keep making critical mistakes.

[The Wiz]

Hard for me to say if he said "is" or "his" but in McD's zoom meeting today addressing the game/OC change he said "when you're not your producing over time, that's where is/his confidence level is thin"

 

Like I said, hard to tell what if he said is or his but might have been a slip of the tongue on McDs part talking about Allen and wouldn't be surprised if he was.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Dopey said:

I became a much gentler person once I became a father.

 

DUDE SAME!  My son is 5 1/2 months old and I find it hard now to get overly upset at football anymore or any other stupid stuff.  

[ToGoGo]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

My best guess:

1.) Josh has the weight of the world on his shoulders. From 13 seconds, to a massive extension and commercials and the cover of Madden, to being Super Bowl favorites last year and all that happened, to this season. I don't think that people can imagine what the type of adulation and hero worship that Bills fans foist on Allen can do to a person.

2.) With the sky high expectations mentioned above, McDermott's coaching style, and the offense not gelling under Dorsey, I think Josh (and other players) have stopped having fun. And the worse things have gotten this season, the more it's snowballed. They all feel tremendous pressure to get it right, and the more they have continued NOT to get it right, the more the "not having fun, trying too hard" effect has snowballed and built on itself.

The bottom line is this: Firing Dorsey was a good and necessary first step. Eliminate a variable. Put the crosshairs solely on the head coach.

But in all likelihood, only one thing will fully save Josh Allen and restore the fun-loving, free-wheeling player (and team) we all miss seeing: A fresh start. A new chapter. Close the books on the Sean McDermott era, on 13 seconds, on all of it. A new head coach, a completely new coaching staff. Preferably a young, innovative, upbeat offensive mind who can re-spark the passion in this team that it appears to direly need.

I have always defended Sean McDermott, and I still doubt that he actually gets let go this offseason, but frankly, I've reached the point where I feel that it's what's needed. It's not that he's a bad coach, it's not that he's entirely at fault for everything that happened. It's just....it's time. It's time for a fresh start.

Let’s not put the cart before the horse on McDermott. You were right about Dorsey being a variable. 
 

Let’s see how the offense responds to a simpler game plan before we blow up the best thing that happened to us in 25 years. 

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, KellyToTasker said:

At the risk of getting blasted on here….I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s medicated. Sugar high Josh, throwing up before games Josh, needs to get hit to get into games Josh, his own reference to his mental state, etc. He’s most definitely subdued.

I wouldn’t doubt it.  I’ve been depressed.  It sucks.  He had the look, sadly.  I hope he’s ok. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

DUDE SAME!  My son is 5 1/2 months old and I find it hard now to get overly upset at football anymore or any other stupid stuff.  

Let your kid grow a bit and not be a baby anymore and it will all come back. My kids are 18 and 20 and I’m really mad right now. 

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Let your kid grow a bit and not be a baby anymore and it will all come back. My kids are 18 and 20 and I’m really mad right now. 

 

Hahaha touche and yeah I expect that

[Aussie Joe]

We all know his story…. 
 

Couldn’t get a scholarship and had to go to Reedley College…

 

Sent out hundreds of emails and then Wyoming gave him a chance …and then became a Top 10 pick…

 

Of course he then had to prove all the analytics nerds wrong that he wouldn’t be successful in the NFL….

 

So what’s happened to that guy that did all that ? Over come all those odds pretty much on his own to live his dream? It’s not the guy we see on the sidelines this season..

 

Has Sean McDermott really changed him to that degree… it seems unlikely to me that a coach can change that drive out of somebody …or has something else happened to him?

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'll take your first sentence as a compliment except that rather then use the word "apologist" I would use the word "realist".  Over the years when Bills fans have periodically jumped out of the woodwork during rough patches and went after Allen tooth & claw I just point out the obvious.  You know the stuff that I see when taking my eye test:  Allen's overall production and the lack of high end complimentary offensive personnel and coaching that I see on other SB contending teams with elite QB's.

 

You say he's an NFL QB and he'll make some decent throws every game.  Fair enough.  But when I watch NFL & College football (and I watch a lot of both) I see offensive skill players making all sorts of amazing catches.  I see guys grabbing the ball inches off the ground or high pointing and coming down with contested catch after contested catch.  Little dump off throws get taken 75 yards to the house as O linemen throw great down field blocks and RB's break tackles & turn on the jets.

 

Now tell me what your eye test says about Bills skill players over the last couple of seasons?  Diggs had that awesome 55 yard YAC TD against Miami...............but how many other great plays do you recall our play makers actually making?  I recall a few Davis drops of 55 yard Allen passes from last season. And I'm not trying to be a smart a## here but do you remember our skill players making a lot of wow catches this or last season?  Just last night Wilson benefited from 2 great catches - a one handed catch that went for 20 yards and that amazing TD catch.  Meanwhile did our receivers make a single wow catch?  I saw a ball go through Davis hands for an INT instead of a 1st and goal and Diggs couldn't handle a low, but not that low, Allen throw that might have gone for 30 yards.  Yea I get that Allen needed to make a better throw there but wouldn't it be nice if Bills receivers actually made tough catches now and then?

 

And I don't see Allen "pouting" I see a man who looks down and out and is very frustrated.  Looking lost is not the same thing as pouting. And for the record, Kelly was NEVER expected to do for those SB Bills teams what Allen is expected to do for the Bills today.  Kelly had much better coaching and was surrounded with all pro and future HOF offensive talent.

 

 

 

 

Our receivers do not make spectacular or great plays very often if ever.  Knox can barely catch a pass where he has to move in the slightest.  And yes last night Davis and Kincaid let balls go right through their hands.  The throw to Diggs was low and away.  Other then Diggs Shakir Cook and Kincaid, I would bring in a bunch of young skill players who have potential talent.  We have wasted so many picks over the past years since we drafted Josh.  That all being said, Josh is not playing well.  He needs to stop turning the ball over.  I love his athletic ability.  And love the way he can make plays and his competitiveness when he is zoned in.    And I hate the coaching on this team.  Its lousy.  McDermott is over his head.  We all know that.  Hopefully the ownership sees that.  And will do the right thing for the franchise and this amazing fan base.  The ending to last night's game was disgusting.  I had to watch on delay because my flight from Detroit to Atlanta was 3 and a half hours late because of engine problems.  I didn't finish the game til almost 2:30am.  I sat on my couch in utter disbelief and shock.  Lets hope Joe Brady has some solid ideas and schemes.  If not, this season will turn in to an epic collapse.  

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

We all know his story…. 
 

Couldn’t get a scholarship and had to go to Reedley College…

 

Sent out hundreds of emails and then Wyoming gave him a chance …and then became a Top 10 pick…

 

Of course he then had to prove all the analytics nerds wrong that he wouldn’t be successful in the NFL….

 

So what’s happened to that guy that did all that ? Over come all those odds pretty much on his own to live his dream? It’s not the guy we see on the sidelines this season..

 

Has Sean McDermott really changed him to that degree… it seems unlikely to me that a coach can change that drive out of somebody …or has something else happened to him?

But McD is more than a coach he's Allen's boss in the workplace and yes a bad boss can suck the life out of their employees.

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But McD is more than a coach he's Allen's boss in the workplace and yes a bad boss can suck the life out of their employees.

 

 

This is a pretty unique position we are talking about here … Allen will be here a long time after McDermott has moved on 

[Maynard]

I would agree that nobody looks like they’re having fun out there anymore. Did that leave with Daboll? 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

This is a pretty unique position we are talking about here … Allen will be here a long time after McDermott has moved on 

NFL years are like dog years.  Five years under McD in the NFL is like you or me working 15 years in a normal job. All I'm saying and maybe I misunderstood the point of the poster referring to McD as just Allen's coach is that this relationship at the professional level is way more complicated and profound then it is in Pop Warner or High School.

 

 

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

NFL years are like dog years.  Five years under McD in the NFL is like you or me working 15 years in a normal job. All I'm saying and maybe I misunderstood the point of the poster referring to McD as just Allen's coach is that this relationship at the professional level is way more complicated and profound then it is in Pop Warner or High School.

 

 

 

 

McD is gone … he might get another 12 months tops … but for the first time I’m thinking there is a chance he might be gone at the end of the season,,,

 

I hope all that is required is a new coach and the “old Josh “ is back … … 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Aussie Joe