We need to save Josh Allen by any means necessary (the fire is gone)

[Nihilarian]

My take is that it was Ken Dorsey who was the problem with the offense and Josh saw it. He voted for the guy for the job so was reluctant to say anything.

 

The offense was far too predictable and in the scheme unless the players played perfectly it wouldn't work. 

 

Things should get better.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

That’s one thing that can’t be coached. You either have passion or you don’t.  I don’t know if this is true or not, but if it is what caused it to happen?

 

he got paid, that's what happened.

 

it's not uncommon, see Dareus, Captain Fatass

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Can't help yourself in throwing out insults?  BTW, pointing out the counter arguments to your takes on Allen is not "hero worship". But hey everyone has an opinion.

 

 

Again the truth hurts.  You think Josh is a hero and can do no wrong.  It is evident from your posts.  You have never to my knowledge said anything negative.  Even in this thread you try to justify his high turnover rate by saying the defense should get more turnovers, as if one has to do with the other.

 

Josh is a great talent.  Every Bills fan wants him here his entire career and to succeed.  But he has flaws to be corrected.  Brady once said he wanted to be coached hard.  Shouldn’t Josh get the same?

[What a Tuel]

4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

My take is that it was Ken Dorsey who was the problem with the offense and Josh saw it. He voted for the guy for the job so was reluctant to say anything.

 

The offense was far too predictable and in the scheme unless the players played perfectly it wouldn't work. 

 

Things should get better.

 

Wouldnt they just run the same offense? Does Joe Brady really have a backup offense to scheme up and run on the fly in week 11 of the season?

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Again the truth hurts.  You think Josh is a hero and can do no wrong.  It is evident from your posts.  You have never to my knowledge said anything negative.  Even in this thread you try to justify his high turnover rate by saying the defense should get more turnovers, as if one has to do with the other.

 

Josh is a great talent.  Every Bills fan wants him here his entire career and to succeed.  But he has flaws to be corrected.  Brady once said he wanted to be coached hard.  Shouldn’t Josh get the same?

Please with the "truth hurts" crap.  The fact you can't understand my point about the TD/TO ratio being a better metric then just total TO's is not my problem.  As to whether I ever post anything "negative" about Allen this is what posted 14 minutes ago on this thread:  "Agree.  That was a bad INT under the circumstances.  And this is where Allen can improve his game."

 

Maybe it's that when I'm negative I'm just not nasty about it.

 

And when a high number of TO's is accompanied by a high number of TD's then yes the defenses ability to force TO's is related to the success of the team. 

 

 

 

 

[SectionC3]

25 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Agree.  That was a bad INT under the circumstances.  And this is where Allen can improve his game. 

 

As an aside, what I would live to know is whether that pass was the primary play call from Dorsey or did Allen divert from the primary play call to try to force it to Harty? Allen's comments about running the play that was called makes me think that was the primary call.

 

 

He looked right at him.  Harty was between Josh and my position in the stadium in my line of sight.  It was a garbage throw. One of the worst he’s made in a long time.  The angle was such that I saw the whole thing develop.  It was a shockingly poor throw. 

[Dopey]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Yep, to many TO's by the offense but also not enough takeaways b the defense over the last few weeks. 

 

Really?  So can you name a couple of those games?  I can think of a whole bunch of games Allen bailed out the D. 

Without looking, last year's playoff win vs. Miami. People here saying we almost lost to Skyler Thompson and gave up 31 points to them. Watch the game over and tell me Josh didn't single handedly try and give that game away. The 1st int was just a horrible throw. Then to start the 2nd half he fumbles the ball away for a TD. Our defense dominated that game. Did you watch the Giants game a few weeks ago? The defense won that game for him. The defense tried to save the team vs. the Jets in the season opener, but Josh just wouldn't allow it. Josh had to win it for us...not. Just a few off the top of my head.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Dopey said:

Without looking, last year's playoff win vs. Miami. People here saying we almost lost to Skyler Thompson and gave up 31 points to them. Watch the game over and tell me Josh didn't single handedly try and give that game away. The 1st int was just a horrible throw. Then to start the 2nd half he fumbles the ball away for a TD. Our defense dominated that game. Did you watch the Giants game a few weeks ago? The defense won that game for him. The defense tried to save the team vs. the Jets in the season opener, but Josh just wouldn't allow it. Josh had to win it for us...not. Just a few off the top of my head.

 

Both of the past two games in the Meadowlands are clear Josh Allen losses, as is this most recent dumpster fire.

 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Please with the "truth hurts" crap.  The fact you can't understand my point about the TD/TO ratio being a better metric then just total TO's is not my problem.  As to whether I ever post anything "negative" about Allen this is what posted 14 minutes ago on this thread:  "Agree.  That was a bad INT under the circumstances.  And this is where Allen can improve his game."

 

Maybe it's that when I'm negative I'm just not nasty about it.

 

And when a high number of TO's is accompanied by a high number of TD's then yes the defenses ability to force TO's is related to the success of the team. 

 

 

 

 

 Turnovers cost games.  That is truth.  Your QB can’t be leading the league in turnovers.

 

We’ll see if Brady helps.  Every guy in the offense should look in the mirror and ask what they can do to be better.  And that includes Allen.

 

My fear is that no matter who the OC is Josh is not going to learn or accept the concepts.  We hired the guy he wanted in Dorsey and it failed.  If the same thing happens with the next guy when does it stop?

[Jrb1979]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Please with the "truth hurts" crap.  The fact you can't understand my point about the TD/TO ratio being a better metric then just total TO's is not my problem.  As to whether I ever post anything "negative" about Allen this is what posted 14 minutes ago on this thread:  "Agree.  That was a bad INT under the circumstances.  And this is where Allen can improve his game."

 

Maybe it's that when I'm negative I'm just not nasty about it.

 

And when a high number of TO's is accompanied by a high number of TD's then yes the defenses ability to force TO's is related to the success of the team. 

 

 

 

 

That shows he really isn't having as great a season you think he's having. 

 

[What a Tuel]

3 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

That shows he really isn't having as great a season you think he's having. 

 

 

This is silly playing with statistics nonsense.

 

I can do it too.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by What a Tuel

[The Firebaugh Kid]

#bringbackbrittany

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Please with the "truth hurts" crap.  The fact you can't understand my point about the TD/TO ratio being a better metric then just total TO's is not my problem.  As to whether I ever post anything "negative" about Allen this is what posted 14 minutes ago on this thread:  "Agree.  That was a bad INT under the circumstances.  And this is where Allen can improve his game."

 

Maybe it's that when I'm negative I'm just not nasty about it.

 

And when a high number of TO's is accompanied by a high number of TD's then yes the defenses ability to force TO's is related to the success of the team. 

 

 

 

 

Not wading into your argument here, but the throw that should have resulted in a pick early on (the defender didn't get his second foot in bounds) was an equally terrible throw/decision. The Bills were LUCKY the defender didn't seem to know how to do a basic foot drag (probably because he's a LB and not a DB). 

[vanislebills44]

pretty evident that something is going on 

i think the brass should put some bonuses into his contract in relation 2 checkdowns...

 

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

 Turnovers cost games.  That is truth.  Your QB can’t be leading the league in turnovers.

 

We’ll see if Brady helps.  Every guy in the offense should look in the mirror and ask what they can do to be better.  And that includes Allen.

 

My fear is that no matter who the OC is Josh is not going to learn or accept the concepts.  We hired the guy he wanted in Dorsey and it failed.  If the same thing happens with the next guy when does it stop?

Amen. It would be nice if people acknowledge this fact. This has been an issue prior to Dorsey. I am not saying I wanted Dorsey to stay, but after a while we're gonna run out of OC's to blame. I want Josh to succeed here, but there are issues in his game. Take what the defense gives you. We don't need an entire game of heroics. 

[DCBongo]

3 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

I blame Hailee Steinfeld.

Women weaken legs

[CincyBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

That shows he really isn't having as great a season you think he's having. 

 

Actually it doesn't. Your cherry picking the data from a very small sample size (low number of games).  Take out Allen's worst 2 games (Denver/Jets) to go along with taking out his 2 best games (this is the minimum you need to do here) and he has thrown 10 TD's & 6 INT's not great but not terrible.

 

And why are you ignoring rushing TD's & fumbles?  Allen has scored 7 rushing TD's and lost 2 fumbles.  That would change your story a lot: after you drop Allen's worst 2 and best 2 games - Allen would then have 16 TD's & 6 TO's which is very good. 

 

 

[Airseven]

3 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Sorry, I've seen otherwise.

In empty stadiums?

 

(That Chiefs playoff game is ancient history.)

[nedboy7]

The idea of letting go of a top player that is struggling for some reason is just pathetic.  I Josh playing well?  Not really.  Do I think they should trade him or something?  Hell no!  Can he regain his mojo?  Of course. 

[Nihilarian]

8 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Wouldnt they just run the same offense? Does Joe Brady really have a backup offense to scheme up and run on the fly in week 11 of the season?

It's the very same playbook that Brian Daboll used to run, the same scheme. Yet, when the OC sees his QB throw INTs on particular plays over and over...take them out of the playbook. Ken Dorsey did not do that. 

 

it's that the offense has been predictable under Dorsey and far too dependent on the player execution to make the play work. It has also been far too simple that defenses can lay back and know what's coming as they sit on routes.

 

However, Brian Daboll was a wizard in his play calls, passing concepts that would have defenses so confused.

 

We need to see what this new OC can do. Hopefully much better.