DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[hondo in seattle]

9 hours ago, BritishBill said:

I think it’s possible for both firing Dorsey to be the right move, while also hiring Brady not to be the right one, long term.

 

We’ve obviously been on a good run results wise and the offence has been more balanced in terms of run/pass.

 

But we’ve not blown anyone out really, our stud #1 receiver hasn’t had a 100 yard game in the stretch, and our #2 receiver has had what, 3 or 4 of those games with zero receptions. 
 

kincaid overall has also been worse under Brady.

 

on the flip side, Cook has obviously had a huge uptick and Shakir seems to be making his move.

 

his numbers in his previous OC posts suggest that what we’re seeing is his norm. His offences historically have not put up huge points, and it seems even with the weapons he has here, that’s the same again.

 

I’m not sure what the future holds, but I’d like the Bills to at least explore alternatives rather than default hand it to Brady.

 

It would probably be awkward, but I hope McD finds an OC better than Brady and Brady reverts to being the QB coach.  

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, hondo in seattle said:

 

It would probably be awkward, but I hope McD finds an OC better than Brady and Brady reverts to being the QB coach.  

 

 

If we bring in an outside OC, Brady will have an OC job somewhere else that day.

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If we bring in an outside OC, Brady will have an OC job somewhere else that day.

 

You think so?   What has he done?  

I guess it depends on our playoff run.  But his 1/2 season experience as an OC without moving the needle much on total yards gained or points scored doesn't seem enough to make him the belle of the ball.  

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

You think so?   What has he done?  

I guess it depends on our playoff run.  But his 1/2 season experience as an OC without moving the needle much on total yards gained or points scored doesn't seem enough to make him the belle of the ball.  

 

Points scored definitely jumped up. We went from barely being able to score 20 points, and 0 in first halves, to multiple 30 point games. And we're far more consistent.

 

He has better prior experience than any of the other "up and coming" candidates.

 

Short of finding a fired, offensive Head Coach who is willing to step down I'd say Brady is the hottest OC candidate out there. What other QB coaches or Offensive assistants are primed for a promotion?

 

Agreed, what we do in the playoffs will definitely decide his fate in Buffalo and as an OC candidate around the league.

[QCity]

25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Short of finding a fired, offensive Head Coach who is willing to step down I'd say Brady is the hottest OC candidate out there. What other QB coaches or Offensive assistants are primed for a promotion?

 

 

 Ben Johnson is clearly the most sought after OC this season and has interviews already lined up. Bobby Slowik isn't far behind.

[SoonerBillsFan]

39 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If we bring in an outside OC, Brady will have an OC job somewhere else that day.

I don't think so.  They all know he has Allen, so they will also take into account his time in Carolina.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, QCity said:

 

 Ben Johnson is clearly the most sought after OC this season and has interviews already lined up. Bobby Slowik isn't far behind.

 

Those are OCs who are hot for HC positions.

 

Who are the hot candidates for an OC position? A bunch of first-time playcallers or failed HCs. Blech.

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

I don't think so.  They all know he has Allen, so they will also take into account his time in Carolina.

 

Which is tempered by Matt Rhule who gets most of the blame for the failing in Carolina.

 

For real tho. Who else is out there for OC?

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Those are OCs who are hot for HC positions.

 

Who are the hot candidates for an OC position? A bunch of first-time playcallers or failed HCs. Blech.

 

Which is tempered by Matt Rhule who gets most of the blame for the failing in Carolina.

 

For real tho. Who else is out there for OC?

Not sure yet, and it's too early to guess.

[DrDawkinstein]

38 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Not sure yet, and it's too early to guess.

 

Kinda my point. There are no other known names to be promoted to OC like Joe Brady.

 

We know plenty of candidates for HC, not too early to guess there.

 

edit:

 

If we start in the usual place, Kyle Shanahan's tree, he does have Klint Kubiak (Gary's son) and Brian Griese on staff that could be promoted to full OC.

 

In LA with McVay you have Zac Robinson as Passing Coordinator/QB Coach.

 

Dallas has Scott Tolzien as QB Coach.

 

I'll keep looking but not exactly a ton of tough competition for Brady's experience.

Edited January 9 by DrDawkinstein

[Dillenger4]

Brady is the man! He is our OC moving forward and you can bank on it.

5-1 in his tenure as Interim OC. The one loss being an OT loss in a rainstorm on the road to the Eagles. We scored over 30 points. It was his first game.

He has put his stamp on this O with power running and the use of RB in the pass game.

[GunnerBill]

45 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

For real tho. Who else is out there for OC?

 

Tee Martin who the Bills interviewed before hiring Ken Dorsey two years ago. Was then the Baltimore WR coach, moved this year to QB coach and respected for his work with Lamar. Expect him to get a ton of OC interest. 

 

Klint Kubiak son of Gary, called plays a bit in Denver last year, been on the 49ers staff this year. 

 

Eric Bieniemy, probably not a HC candidate this year but did a decent job with Sam Howell all the same and the Commanders are clearing house. 

 

Jason Vrable, no relation to Mike, done a hell of a job with that young receiver corps in Green Bay this year. Also passing game coordinator, said to really be able to relate to players. 

 

They are the other names I'd expect to see. But you are right. Joe Brady won't be anyone's QB coach next year. He will be an OC in Buffalo or elsewhere. 

Edited January 9 by GunnerBill

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

36 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Those are OCs who are hot for HC positions.

 

Who are the hot candidates for an OC position? A bunch of first-time playcallers or failed HCs. Blech.

 

Which is tempered by Matt Rhule who gets most of the blame for the failing in Carolina.

 

For real tho. Who else is out there for OC?

That's pretty much where I am. I am not against letting a college coach try in principle. For instance, Daboll got his time as a playcaller at Alabama. But realistically, if they are a successful OC who isn't getting a head coaching nod why are they coming to us?

 

Maybe there is some toxic situation, but even our options are likely Brady (who knows our players and tendencies, is already in the building), OC in contentious relationship in current position, OCs who didn't get the HC job and burned their bridges, outside assistant coaches, or college coaches.

 

I'm not saying that the Bills should necessarily rubber stamp Brady. See what is out there. Hear some concepts. But it's hard for me to expect that we are getting much better than Brady (who previously had HC rumblings)

[DrDawkinstein]

12 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Brady is the man! He is our OC moving forward and you can bank on it.

5-1 in his tenure as Interim OC. The one loss being an OT loss in a rainstorm on the road to the Eagles. We scored over 30 points. It was his first game.

He has put his stamp on this O with power running and the use of RB in the pass game.

 

I thought Jets was his first game as it's the game after Denver. Point still stands, we scored over 30 points in his first game and looked like the Bills of 2021 again.

[Figster]

1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

You think so?   What has he done?  

I guess it depends on our playoff run.  But his 1/2 season experience as an OC without moving the needle much on total yards gained or points scored doesn't seem enough to make him the belle of the ball.  

Brady has won every game hes coached for Buffalo ( OC ) except 1 vs Eagles and should have won it. Playing Complimentary ball control football and keeping our high motor D well rested. 

 

This stat argument means nothing when you can't beat the better DC's in the league. A ball control O gives you long sustained drives. Naturally it brings the score down.

 

 

Edited January 9 by Figster

[K D]

2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

You think so?   What has he done?  

I guess it depends on our playoff run.  But his 1/2 season experience as an OC without moving the needle much on total yards gained or points scored doesn't seem enough to make him the belle of the ball.  

He was already high on lists as a potential OC. He either remains ours or he will be the OC in another city within a week

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Points scored definitely jumped up. We went from barely being able to score 20 points, and 0 in first halves, to multiple 30 point games. And we're far more consistent.

 

He has better prior experience than any of the other "up and coming" candidates.

 

Short of finding a fired, offensive Head Coach who is willing to step down I'd say Brady is the hottest OC candidate out there. What other QB coaches or Offensive assistants are primed for a promotion?

 

Agreed, what we do in the playoffs will definitely decide his fate in Buffalo and as an OC candidate around the league.

 

When it comes to points scored, it depends on your frame of reference.  We had some big offensive games under Dorsey, including 3 of our 4 first opponents.  The O went flat after that.  I don't miss Dorsey.  I just don't know if Brady is The Guy.  

 

I'd like to see us find a better OC than Brady but I recognize that the best offensive minds already have OC and HC jobs. 

 

If we do keep Brady as OC next year, I hope we surround him with great minds. The best position coaches are guys who teach and motivate their players to consistently execute at a high level.  They're not necessarily good X-and-O guys.  I think we mostly have good position coaches (minus the fact we currently lack a QB coach).  But we also need good scheme guys on staff - coaches who excel at the tactics of NFL football - to help Brady dissect tape and game plan.  

 

At least that's how it seems to me, a simple fan without any behind-closed-doors knowledge.  

 

 

Edited January 9 by hondo in seattle

[colin]

the difference to me, and it's not huge, is that brady has drives stalled w penalties and bad execution and somehow finds a way to overcome late (NE, miami, chargers).

 

dorseys stuff looked bad in games (giants, Jags, denver, TB) and really just didn't correct course it seemed like.

 

now, given brady came in late and is picking up from dorsey, i give him a higher grade (marked on a curve i'd say).

 

one other item to note, we've tended to have the ball in our hands late in games we had leads in.  NE, Miami, and a few others.  not desperation stuff, but we had a chance to score again if we needed to, and i think we would have more often than not.

 

either way, he's got 2 home playoff games, just like dorsey did last season, so we will see what he can scheme up.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Kinda my point. There are no other known names to be promoted to OC like Joe Brady.

 

We know plenty of candidates for HC, not too early to guess there.

 

edit:

 

If we start in the usual place, Kyle Shanahan's tree, he does have Klint Kubiak (Gary's son) and Brian Griese on staff that could be promoted to full OC.

 

In LA with McVay you have Zac Robinson as Passing Coordinator/QB Coach.

 

Dallas has Scott Tolzien as QB Coach.

 

I'll keep looking but not exactly a ton of tough competition for Brady's experience.

I think Josh would thrive in a Shanahan style offense, and I hope whoever the next coordinator is will be able to get the best out of Josh, because that's what it's all about at this point. I just don't think the offense we currently have suits Josh the best.

[Alphadawg7]

Brady is the better OC than Dorsey for this team, and that is pretty indisputable despite some peoples best efforts.  

 

BUT that does not mean Brady is owed the OC job full time next year either.  The offense hasn't been clicking on all cylinders the last 3 games where we have squeaked out wins against teams we should have blown out.  Winning is all that matters, but when it comes to removing the interim tag, how his unit performs also matters.  

 

Brady obviously has earned consideration for the job full time, but he hasn't "earned" the job yet IMHO.  How he and the offense fare in the postseason I think will play a big part on whether he remains or they look to hire someone else.  

 

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Brady is the better OC than Dorsey for this team, and that is pretty indisputable despite some peoples best efforts.  

 

BUT that does not mean Brady is owed the OC job full time next year either.  The offense hasn't been clicking on all cylinders the last 3 games where we have squeaked out wins against teams we should have blown out.  Winning is all that matters, but when it comes to removing the interim tag, how his unit performs also matters.  

 

Brady obviously has earned consideration for the job full time, but he hasn't "earned" the job yet IMHO.  How he and the offense fare in the postseason I think will play a big part on whether he remains or they look to hire someone else.  

 

 

Agree, but the point I think some of us are making is that not many successful proven OCs are footloose and fancy free at the moment (because usually really good OCs are on playoff teams), and those who are free or are becoming available after this weekend likely going to be picked over first by the teams that just fired their HCs. 

 

There are other avenues: if there is a toxic situation under one head coach, or a fired head coach (Reich) or assistant (Brady), or a retread, or some college mind that blows you away.

 

But because of the insane demand to get the next Shannahan or McVay you are seeing OCs get chances to run teams they are not ready for and they are snatched up way too soon. We can look, and we should, but I temper my expectations that we'll find someone who can present a better plan than someone who has actually worked and had success with the players we have right now.