DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[Mango]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Different things:

 

*  The defense comment was in response to your talking about the Bills being ranked 19th in total plays as supporting what the Manning's said.  My point is that this season the D has probably had the biggest impact on why the Bills have a reduced number of total plays.

 

*  I took the snarky Manning comments to indicate an Allen problem that went beyond that one game.  But even in the Denver game the Bills 2nd drive was 8 plays that ended on an INT that should have been a 1st down at the Bronco's 12 yard line.  That drive alone would have been 9 or more plays had Davis just caught the ball.  And for what its worth two of the three Bills drives involved 8 & 7 plays respectively.

 

 

 

Yes at large a lot of things going into not running a lot of offensive plays. Not the least of which is not throwing the ball to the open receiver underneath, taking shots you don’t need to, and getting behind the sticks.
 

I think he can have an issue outside of a single game, and that games announcers can be talking another the game they are watching in the moment. Warner and Brady would seem to agree.

[Peter]

46 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Over the last 6 weeks we are averaging 20.5 ppg which is around 20th. That 26.2 ppg is inflated by just a few games earlier in the season.  We have been on a bad stretch of offense for 6 weeks now.  If it were just a game here and there that would be one thing, but it isn't.  Its 6 games straight and thats on the soft part of our schedule where we needed to stack wins.  Thats a clear slide.

 

I heard an interesting thing today.  Dorsey's offense only has 4 formations.  They only run 2 plays out of most of those formations.  That makes this offense entirely practicable and easy to defend.  You can tell what play just by tendencies.  That makes it extremely difficult for an offense to succeed and expects them to be perfect all the time.  They hardly ever even motion and rank I think it was 28th in the league using motion.  There is no real scheme to get guys open.  It's just line up and beat your man all the time.

 

I love how you guys try to restrict the sample size to push your narrative.

 

Another way of looking at your small sample size:

 

In two of those six games, the offensive put us in a position to win but the defense gave up a game "losing" drive. The same is true with the first game of the season.

 

If the defense had done what it should have done in those three games, we would be 8 -2 and leading the AFC.

 

As for scoring, here is a complete sample size from last year:

 

 Buffalo Bills - Second Leading Scoring Offense in NFL

 

As for schemes to get open, Kurt Warner disagrees with you:

 

In Defense of Dorsey

 

But hey, what does he know. 

 

P.S. I am going to a charity event in a little while so you guys can argue amongst yourselves.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Peter

[Scott7975]

31 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I love how you guys try to restrict the sample size to push your narrative.

 

Another way of looking at your small sample size:

 

In two of those six games, the offensive put us in a position to win but the defense gave up a game "losing" drive. The same is true with the first game of the season.

 

If the defense had done what it should have done in those three games, we would be 8 -2 and leading the AFC.

 

As for scoring, here is a complete sample size from last year:

 

 Buffalo Bills - Second Leading Scoring Offense in NFL

 

As for schemes to get open, Kurt Warner disagrees with you:

 

In Defense of Dorsey

 

But hey, what does he know. 

 

P.S. I am going to a charity event in a little while so you guys can argue amongst yourselves.

 

 

 

Its more than the last half of the season.  Its not a restricted sample size.  It's the last 6 games out of 10.  It's called showing a trend.  Its exactly why I said in my post "If it were just a game here and there that would be one thing, but it's not.  Its 6 straight games of poor offense."

 

They still had poor offense in those two games.  If  our offense scored 6 points all game and the defense gave up a TD on the last drive of the game after shutting the team out all game. that would be the same saying "the offense put us in position to win."  Doesn't mean the offense played good.

 

If the offense wouldn't punt the football and turn it over all game the defense wouldn't be put in that position. It sucks the D couldn't close out.  They should be able to but if not for that same D, we would have been blown out those games because the offense wasn't even moving the ball most of the game.  When they did, they turned it over.

 

I don't care about last year.  I care about this year.  Why you are showing me sample size from last year, I don't know.

 

What Kurt and you are talking about is not the same thing as I am talking about.

 

You seem awfully too upset over some guy you don't know getting fired. Regardless of who you want to fault, the facts are that this offense wasn't working and its the coaches job to get it to work.  If he can't then he needs to be replaced by someone who can.  There is enough talent on this offense to get it to work.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Scott7975

[JerseyBills]

Like his energy and how relatable he was around the guys. It was a freaking 30 second video lol but I like his energy. 

Starting to feel like Dorsey lacked this aspect of coaching.  His x's and o's might have been great but maybe he didn't get through to the guys because of his personality.  

 

[BuffaloSkills]

so looking forward to something different.  Can Brady scheme people open?  tyreek hill is in motion every snap.  Everyone knows Maholems is going to Kelsey but they find away to get him open.   a good offensive scheme and get Josh RUNNING again this team could go on a streak.  GO BILLS

[Bimmer323i]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:33 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

Well, you're correct in saying he can't install a new offense in a week.

 

What he can do is streamline what's in place and run what's been working. He will control what formation and who is on the field. 

 

He'll also have a different view of the flow of the game and what to call. There's a lot of impact he could have even running Dorsey's offense. 

Yea your right…. I’m excited non the less to see what he brings… it can’t be any worse imo

[Patrick Duffy]

9 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Like his energy and how relatable he was around the guys. It was a freaking 30 second video lol but I like his energy. 

Starting to feel like Dorsey lacked this aspect of coaching.  His x's and o's might have been great but maybe he didn't get through to the guys because of his personality.  

 

 

Yeah, it's a big opportunity for him he's wanting to take advantage of. So one can assume he will have a different approach among other things from Dorsey

[Rubes]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:18 AM, YoloinOhio said:

I’m around here and there. I promise to never leave again, apparently it is bad luck!!

 

Holy smokes, I come here every day, multiple times a day, and I just noticed now that you're back. Good to see you again!

 

[LABILLBACKER]

21 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

Holy smokes, I come here every day, multiple times a day, and I just noticed now that you're back. Good to see you again!

 

Yes made my day seeing Yolo back.  If Brady can turn around Josh's confidence,  he's a shoe in for OC. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I see Robbie Anderson got waived. Maybe he’d be a good add. He was good with Carolina in 20 when Brady was there.

[Luka]

Ken Dorsey had nothing to do with the offense being one of the top scoring teams in the league. That's called having Josh Allen and Steffon Diggs. The issue with Dorsey was his inability to get other guys involved. I think Kincaid and Cook being used sparingly was the biggest issue for Dorsey. You have got to scheme around your talent. It can't just be Allen to Diggs every down. And maybe that's Josh too. It was not an issue under Daboll, however. McKenzie and Beasely were consistently schemed in. Quick outs, end arounds, jet sweeps. 

 

For Brady to be successful, he needs to get Josh back into an offense where he has multiple options. The RPO style of offense needs to return. Josh is one of the best rushing quarterbacks of all time. The threat of his legs needs to make it's way back into this offense. It's a massive advantage and weapon that the coaching staff has attempted to table. It's part of Josh's personality. He needs to stiff arm, he needs to hurdle, he needs to put a shoulder into someone. It doesn't have to be the focus, but it needs to be prominent enough that defenses respect it again and that Josh is back to his old self on the sideline.

 

RPO would also be it's most dangerous this year with a weapon like Cook. He has shown that if you miss a gap assignment, you've given up a first down or more. The RPO puts pressure on the defense. The moment of hesitation the ball fake/hand off creates could really set Cook loose. His abilities as a receiver are woefully underused in this offense as well. I do find it amusing when everyone on the board wants the K-Gun to return because maybe they don't realize the true engine in that offense was Thurman Thomas. He was top 5 in yards from scrimmage nearly every year in that offense. Not to say Cook is Thurman Thomas, but he certainly could become the engine that makes this offense go. Takes the pressure off of Josh and gives him some high percentage completions when the offense bogs down.

 

Shakir's role in this offense is downright criminal. He is sure handed and an excellent route runner. It's why he was drafted and those traits have translated to the NFL.  Brady would do well to be in Josh's ear. Look for Shakir. The reliance on Davis to be the #2 in this offense has not worked. And it's silly with Shakir and Kincaid that they continue to look at Gabe as the second option. Kincaid by the way, looks to be a bonafide super star tight end. I've seen him running some pretty generic looking routes under Dorsey. Another playmaker that is underutilized up until this point.

 

Dorsey was unfortunately very much like Fraizer in that statistically, things look great. But on the field, in key moments especially, the play calling and the decision making really let the team down. Brady may suffer the same fate, because ultimately, the guy putting his stamp on things is still there. 

[Low Positive]

12 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I see Robbie Anderson got waived. Maybe he’d be a good add. He was good with Carolina in 20 when Brady was there.

He then went to Arizona and lost his mind. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

He then went to Arizona and lost his mind. 

Another victim of the hot Arizona sun.  Wear a hat!

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

23 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

He then went to Arizona and lost his mind. 

He didn’t have much of one to begin with…..I just need him to run and catch footballs. Not anything to taxing mentally.

[hondo in seattle]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:44 PM, Peter said:

 

I love how you guys try to restrict the sample size to push your narrative.

 

Another way of looking at your small sample size:

 

In two of those six games, the offensive put us in a position to win but the defense gave up a game "losing" drive. The same is true with the first game of the season.

 

If the defense had done what it should have done in those three games, we would be 8 -2 and leading the AFC.

 

As for scoring, here is a complete sample size from last year:

 

 Buffalo Bills - Second Leading Scoring Offense in NFL

 

As for schemes to get open, Kurt Warner disagrees with you:

 

In Defense of Dorsey

 

But hey, what does he know. 

 

P.S. I am going to a charity event in a little while so you guys can argue amongst yourselves.

 

 

 

I thought this was interesting because, if I recall correctly, Kurt took some veiled shots at Dorsey's playcalling previously.  

 

Dan Orlovsky, who also played in the NFL, would disagree with Kurt and has said the Bills O was 'schematically broken' and 'wildly predictable.'  

 

McD alluded to 'leadership' when discussing the change at OC.  He didn't mention scheme.  Kurt acknowledged that there might have been more involved in Dorsey's firing than he sees on tape.  

 

In sum, as fans, we don't know (yet) why this all went down.   But after seeing Allen's regression this season, I'm not joining the pro-Dorsey protests.  

[Beck Water]

Imma play resurrectionist because I think this is worth re-visiting.

 

 

 

Bills and Steelers both fired their OCs mid-season.

 

Both in the playoffs.

 

Saints said firing people mid season doesn't help, won't fix anything.

Saints watching playoffs from couch.

 

🤷‍♂️

[Bad Things]

Imma

 

Imma?

 

[FireChans]

On 11/17/2023 at 5:44 PM, Peter said:

 

I love how you guys try to restrict the sample size to push your narrative.

 

Another way of looking at your small sample size:

 

In two of those six games, the offensive put us in a position to win but the defense gave up a game "losing" drive. The same is true with the first game of the season.

 

If the defense had done what it should have done in those three games, we would be 8 -2 and leading the AFC.

 

As for scoring, here is a complete sample size from last year:

 

 Buffalo Bills - Second Leading Scoring Offense in NFL

 

As for schemes to get open, Kurt Warner disagrees with you:

 

In Defense of Dorsey

 

But hey, what does he know. 

 

P.S. I am going to a charity event in a little while so you guys can argue amongst yourselves.

 

 

6-1. 

 

Points scored in that stretch:

 

32

34

20

31

24

27

21

 

2 seed. AFCE champs.  Bills rolling.

 

Thanks Brady. 

 

See ya Kenny.

[Alphadawg7]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:44 PM, Peter said:

 

I love how you guys try to restrict the sample size to push your narrative.

 

Another way of looking at your small sample size:

 

In two of those six games, the offensive put us in a position to win but the defense gave up a game "losing" drive. The same is true with the first game of the season.

 

If the defense had done what it should have done in those three games, we would be 8 -2 and leading the AFC.

 

As for scoring, here is a complete sample size from last year:

 

 Buffalo Bills - Second Leading Scoring Offense in NFL

 

As for schemes to get open, Kurt Warner disagrees with you:

 

In Defense of Dorsey

 

But hey, what does he know. 

 

P.S. I am going to a charity event in a little while so you guys can argue amongst yourselves.

 

 

 

Ive got some trivia for you:

1. POINTS PER GAME:
   1. How many points PPG did the Bills offense avg in the final 6 games under Dorsey?
   2. How many points PPG did the Bills offense avg in the first 6 games under Brady?
   3. ANSWER:  20 for Dorsey, 28 for Brady.  You know how hard it is to improve offensive scoring by 8 points?
2. COMMON OPPONENT:  JETS
   1. How many PPG did offense avg vs Jets in Dorsey's tenure?  
   2. Who many Points did offense score in Brady's only game vs Jets?
   3. ANSWR:  17.5 PPG in 3 games for Dorsey going 1-2 with both losses to Zack Wilson.  32 Points for Brady with the starting offense sitting the majority of the 4th quarter in a blow out win.

You mention about the defense not holding in a couple of games, however, you overlook how decimated the defense was with injuries and the offense was perfectly healthy in those games.  YET the ONLY reason our D had to hold on a final drive was because our offense STUNK and couldn't score against some of the worst teams in the league.  

 

Dorsey was lucky to not be 0-6 in those final 6 games as we should have lost both the Giants game and Bucs games on the last plays, but those teams screwed it up.  Meanwhile, Brady led offense helped this team go 6-1 over the hardest stretch of games of our season while Dorsey was 2 plays away from being 0-6 against the SOFTEST portion of our schedule.  

 

Brady still has a lot to prove, but there is NO QUESTION that Dorsey EARNED his firing and the team has been BETTER off with Brady at OC.  

Edited January 9 by Alphadawg7

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

Imma play resurrectionist because I think this is worth re-visiting.

 

 

 

Bills and Steelers both fired their OCs mid-season.

 

Both in the playoffs.

 

Saints said firing people mid season doesn't help, won't fix anything.

Saints watching playoffs from couch.

 

🤷‍♂️

saints were a much worse team top to bottom and side to side. Talent on the field and in the coaching ranks were major issues. I don’t think it was just Carmichael- though I think Carmichael was awful.

 

its not a great comparison.