DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[Peter]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Why will you not answer the question?What do YOU believe?

 

 I answered the question.  The metrics show that it is.

 

The larger point is, whether you believe it is or not, the metrics certainly don't cry out for firing the OC.

 

 

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

FWIW, there is no scenario that McDermott gets fired midseason and Ken Dorsey isn't also let go. What would (and probably should) have happened is both McD and Dorsey get the axe, Washington gets the interim HC job, and Brady the Interim OC job. If a HC gets fired because an offense with Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs can't score points, the OC will go too. 

 

If the defense did not screw the pooch on three game winning drives, does McD feed Dorsey to the lions to deflect?

[2003Contenders]

16 minutes ago, Peter said:

If the defense did not screw the pooch on three game winning drives, does McD feed Dorsey to the lions to deflect?

Maybe not.

 

But the fact of the matter is that, while the defense is literally missing half of the starters, the offense has been mostly healthy. Rather than helping to pick up the slack, the offense has actually regressed since the bevy of defensive injuries kicked in.

Edited November 17, 2023 by 2003Contenders

[BananaB]

Just now, 2003Contenders said:

Maybe not.

 

But the fact of the matter is that, while the defense is literally missing half of the starters, the offense has been mostly healthy. Rather than helping the pick up the slack, the defense has actually regressed since the bevy of defensive injuries kicked in.

The O is struggling no doubt but I read a lot of posts saying it’s our O that let our D down. Both have let each other down in my opinion. O can’t get it going and are turning the ball over, D can’t get off the field, are not forcing turnovers and have not been able to get a stop late in games. The whole thing is a mess. You can blame injures but Mac Jones still shouldn’t be going in the length of the field in the last 2 minutes. 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It’s not binary either lazy or not.  It’s a question of complacency.  Allen took his foot off the gas this season - it happens.  Lots of folks have quite quit during the past couple of years.  It’s understandable but not excusable.

I don't think we are far off from each other. Again, I am not denying there is a lack of interest and fire in Allen right now. All I am saying is that it's not cos he suddenly became lazy. I think there are other external reasons causing this to have happened. Fixable, imo

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

 I answered the question.  The metrics show that it is.

 

The larger point is, whether you believe it is or not, the metrics certainly don't cry out for firing the OC.

 

 

 

If the defense did not screw the pooch on three game winning drives, does McD feed Dorsey to the lions to deflect?

I mean, if you believe that this is the third best offense in football, and that is an absolute defense of the OC, it would seem then there’s not much criticize at all? 
 

Gabe Davis disappears? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Allen leading the league in TO’s? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Scoring less than 20 PPG? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

see how that’s not really what you think? 

[Peter]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I mean, if you believe that this is the third best offense in football, and that is an absolute defense of the OC, it would seem then there’s not much criticize at all? 
 

Gabe Davis disappears? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Allen leading the league in TO’s? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Scoring less than 20 PPG? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

see how that’s not really what you think? 

 

 

[MikePJ76]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I mean, if you believe that this is the third best offense in football, and that is an absolute defense of the OC, it would seem then there’s not much criticize at all? 
 

Gabe Davis disappears? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Allen leading the league in TO’s? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Scoring less than 20 PPG? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

see how that’s not really what you think? 

what else is Allen leading the league in?

 

The team has only scored less than 20 ppg in two games and they are 1-1 in those games.

[Peter]

23 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I mean, if you believe that this is the third best offense in football, and that is an absolute defense of the OC, it would seem then there’s not much criticize at all? 
 

Gabe Davis disappears? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Allen leading the league in TO’s? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

Scoring less than 20 PPG? Well, 3rd best in DVOA.

 

see how that’s not really what you think? 

 

P.S. As Gabe mentioned, execution is on the players not the OC. Same with the TOs by Josh who also by the way was leading the league in TDs (19).

 

P.P.S. We are averaging 26.2 points per game (not less than 20 ppg), which is 8th in the league . . . and again does not scream out for firing the OC.

 

P.P.P.S. The defense is ranked 17th in scoring defense by comparison.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Peter

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, MikePJ76 said:

what else is Allen leading the league in?

 

The team has only scored less than 20 ppg in two games and they are 1-1 in those games.

Allen needs to get 30 to beat Mac Jones. Meanwhile Mahommie can put up 14 against the highest scoring offense in the league and walk away with the W

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

P.S. As Gabe mentioned, execution is on the players not the OC. Same with the TOs by Josh who also by the way was leading the league in TDs (at least until this past week - I am not sure about right now).

 

P.P.S. We are averaging 26.2 points per game (not less than 20 ppg), which is 8th in the league . . . and again does not scream out for firing the OC.

But we're third in DVOA. Execution can't be a problem.

 

And we are averaging 20.5 PPG since the Dolphins game. I got that wrong. But we're third in DVOA, so 6 games straight with an average PPG less than league average can't be a problem.

[Peter]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

But we're third in DVOA. Execution can't be a problem.

 

And we are averaging 20.5 PPG since the Dolphins game. I got that wrong. But we're third in DVOA, so 6 games straight with an average PPG less than league average can't be a problem.

 

I got it. Let's ignore anything that reflects favorably on the offense and the former OC. 

 

Got it.

 

Now that we have fed Dorsey to the lions, we got rid of what was holding us back and we are Super Bowl bound.

 

The metrics are what the metrics are. NONE OF THEM justify firing the OC. 

[FireChans]

Just now, Peter said:

 

I got it. Let's ignore anything that reflects favorably on the offense and the former OC. 

 

Got it.

 

Now that we have fed Dorsey to the lions, we got rid of what was holding us back and we are Super Bowl bound.

 

The metrics are what the metrics are. NONE OF THEM justify firing the OC. 

That's fine. The metrics are wrong. The Bills in their current iteration are not the third best football in offense. Their offense is disjointed and needed a change. Can't fire the QB or the WR's or the RB's. So they fired the OC.

 

I'm comfortable with that.

[MikePJ76]

7 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Allen needs to get 30 to beat Mac Jones. Meanwhile Mahommie can put up 14 against the highest scoring offense in the league and walk away with the W

I'm pretty sure this means Josh Allen needs to buy state farm insurance and maybe go get some nuggets with a big fat guy at a fast food restauraunt.  

 

[bigK14094]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:19 PM, SectionC3 said:

Daboll is coming back here to be HC, not OC.  Someone earlier mentioned a McD power play in canning Dorsey.  Josh has a little more leverage than McD, and if this season goes up in flames and Daboll gets canned we’ll see who has the juice at OBD. 

Pegs has the juice.

Josh needs to go back to being himself and run some off script.  He has been dumping those off, part of the reason he is 70+% completions.

[SectionC3]

6 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Pegs has the juice.

Josh needs to go back to being himself and run some off script.  He has been dumping those off, part of the reason he is 70+% completions.

If you’re running off Josh Allen to keep Sean McDermott then you are effin deluded, 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Joe Brady ain’t leadin but 2 things right now, Jack and *****. And Jack left town. 

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

 
The comment was snarky, but it was specifically towards the Bills-Broncos game. A game where the Bills had zero 9 play drives. 

Edit: I took a quick gander at offensive plays per game, and the Bills rank 19th. So to their and your points, numbers of plays seems to be a problem. 


 

 

Offensive plays per game is not the same thing as Allen's willingness to have the patience to go on long drives by taking what the defense is giving.  Offensive plays per game is influenced by 3 & outs, TO's and especially the defenses ability to get the opponents offense off the field. In the Giants game the Bills had only 3 possessions the entire 2nd half scoring 2 TD's and a Knox drop from ending the game in the NY red zone taking a knee.

 

Probably the factor most limiting the number of plays the Bills O is running per game is defensive shortcomings where since the Miami game the D has very few forced TO's and 3 & outs. 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I agree with all of this, except for the concept that McDermott doesn't understand offense. His entire career has been built on stopping NFL offenses. He understands play calls and formations because he has to call plays to counter them. He knows better than anyone how Josh Allen's running stresses a defense. because he had to stop guys like Vick and RG3. But he also had a front-row seat for Cam Newton's decline.  

To be clear I agree that McD understands the X's & O's of an offense what I think he doesn't understand are the subtle intangibles that go into how players function and either thrive or struggle within an offense.

 

 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Offensive plays per game is not the same thing as Allen's willingness to have the patience to go on long drives by taking what the defense is giving.  Offensive plays per game is influenced by 3 & outs, TO's and especially the defenses ability to get the opponents offense off the field. In the Giants game the Bills had only 3 possessions the entire 2nd half scoring 2 TD's and a Knox drop from ending the game in the NY red zone taking a knee.

 

Probably the factor most limiting the number of plays the Bills O is running per game is defensive shortcomings where since the Miami game the D has very few forced TO's and 3 & outs. 

 

 

 

 

You literally set a standard of 9 play drives being the marker. In the game the Manning’s were commenting on we had zero 9 play drives. That isn’t on the defense. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Peter said:

 

P.S. As Gabe mentioned, execution is on the players not the OC. Same with the TOs by Josh who also by the way was leading the league in TDs (19).

 

P.P.S. We are averaging 26.2 points per game (not less than 20 ppg), which is 8th in the league . . . and again does not scream out for firing the OC.

 

P.P.P.S. The defense is ranked 17th in scoring defense by comparison.

 

Over the last 6 weeks we are averaging 20.5 ppg which is around 20th. That 26.2 ppg is inflated by just a few games earlier in the season.  We have been on a bad stretch of offense for 6 weeks now.  If it were just a game here and there that would be one thing, but it isn't.  Its 6 games straight and thats on the soft part of our schedule where we needed to stack wins.  Thats a clear slide.

 

I heard an interesting thing today.  Dorsey's offense only has 4 formations.  They only run 2 plays out of most of those formations.  That makes this offense entirely practicable and easy to defend.  You can tell what play just by tendencies.  That makes it extremely difficult for an offense to succeed and expects them to be perfect all the time.  They hardly ever even motion and rank I think it was 28th in the league using motion.  There is no real scheme to get guys open.  It's just line up and beat your man all the time.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Scott7975

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Mango said:

You literally set a standard of 9 play drives being the marker. In the game the Manning’s were commenting on we had zero 9 play drives. That isn’t on the defense. 

Different things:

 

*  The defense comment was in response to your talking about the Bills being ranked 19th in total plays as supporting what the Manning's said.  My point is that this season the D has probably had the biggest impact on why the Bills have a reduced number of total plays.

 

*  I took the snarky Manning comments to indicate an Allen problem that went beyond that one game.  But even in the Denver game the Bills 2nd drive was 8 plays that ended on an INT that should have been a 1st down at the Bronco's 12 yard line.  That drive alone would have been 9 or more plays had Davis just caught the ball.  And for what its worth two of the three Bills drives involved 8 & 7 plays respectively.