DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

The first part ignores my point. I am not making an excuse for him. I am making an observation as to why, as Kurt Warner demonstrated, he is not getting his feet set and his rushing throws etc.

 

The second part (preparation) could be part of the problem.

 

 

 

To push their narrative, the Dorsey haters ignored those numbers and have had it out for him since last year and ignored these full season numbers from last year:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/season/2022/seasontype/2

 

Welp, I am not pushing any narrative. The offense was not doing well this year other than a few games.  Something needed to change. Dorsey was the change.  They aren't changing QBs. Over the last 6 weeks the offense has scored 20.5 ppg.  That would put them around 20th.  I don't care what DVOA and EPA say.  Points win games. The offense doesn't score enough and turns over the ball too much.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Scott7975

[Peter]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Welp, I am not pushing any narrative. The offense was not doing well this year other than a few games.  Something needed to change. Dorsey was the change.  They aren't changing QBs. Over the last week the offense has scored 20.5 ppg.  That would put them around 20th.  I don't care what DVOA and EPA say.  Points win games. The offense doesn't score enough and turns over the ball too much.

 

For the past year +, there have been incessant threads and posts criticizing Dorsey and demanding that he be fired. I could not keep track of how many people started such threads and "official" fire Dorsey threads. Last year people moaned that the offense was not as good as the year before even though that was demonstrably false.

 

As you said, you don't care, but the offense was among the best statistically but people still wanted Dorsey's head and blamed him even though (as players have admitted) the problems were with execution.

 

In the end, we are are 5-5 when we should have been 7-3 because the defense gave up multiple game winning drives after the offense put us in a position to win (not to mention the ridiculous 12 men on the field).

 

McD fed Dorsey to the lions who have been calling for his head. Dorsey did not deserve it or the incessant criticism (in my view).

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Peter

[Mango]

56 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

The problem I have with comments like this from Manning is it doesn't reflect reality and is simply snarky.  Since I remember a lot of long Bills drives I wondered what the hell Manning was talking about. So I went back and just looked for any Bills drive that ended in points (FG or TD) that was 9 plays or longer.  I choose 9 as that is a pretty long drive IMO.  Here's what I found:

 

*  Long Bills drives have been evenly spread out over the season and Allen has had at least one in every game.

 

*  The total number of long drives is = 23.

 

*  The longest was for 17 plays.

 

*  The long drives have been:  9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 13, 15, 15, 17

 

So is Manning being fair or does Allen know he can have long drives?

 

 

 
The comment was snarky, but it was specifically towards the Bills-Broncos game. A game where the Bills had zero 9 play drives. 

Edit: I took a quick gander at offensive plays per game, and the Bills rank 19th. So to their and your points, numbers of plays seems to be a problem. 


 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Mango

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

For the past year +, there have been incessant threads and posts criticizing Dorsey and demanding that he be fired. I could not keep track of how many people started such threads and "official" fire Dorsey threads. Last year people moaned that the offense was not as good as the year before even though that was demonstrably false.

 

As you said, you don't care, but the offense was among the best statistically but people still wanted Dorsey's head and blamed him even though (as players have admitted) the problems were with execution.

 

In the end, we are are 5-5 when we should have been 7-2 because the defense gave up multiple game winning drives after the offense put us in a position to win (not to mention the ridiculous 12 men on the field).

 

McD fed Dorsey to the lions who have been calling for his head. Dorsey did not deserve it or the incessant criticism (in my view).

Do you think our offense is top 3?

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Not 100% on Allen.  Cook didn't look the ball in, he was looking ahead. And this was a guy who sat a quarter because of ball security issues.

 

His eyes should have been on that ball on the handoff.  If the handoff was poor, which it was, then the play most likely is a loss, but not a turnover.

It’s possible if Cook is looking at the ball during the handoff then he could have recovered it. But is still would have bounced off his knee, lol.

[Peter]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Do you think our offense is top 3?

 

Last year = see below:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/season/2022/seasontype/2

 

This year = see below:

 

https://x.com/minakimes/status/1724466437190975685?s=20

Edited November 17, 2023 by Peter

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

Last year = see below:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/season/2022/seasontype/2

 

This year = see below:

 

https://x.com/minakimes/status/1724466437190975685?s=20

Do you think our offense is top 3 as DVOA says?

[Peter]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Do you think our offense is top 3 as DVOA says?

 

The metrics demonstrate yes.

 

[Fan in Chicago]

27 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

.  

 

But I also know it's fair to be critical of Allen's mechanics or basic inadequacies like not being able to execute any kind of screen game.    There are elements of the game where he is a flat-out HACK still.    That shouldn't be.  

I really wonder if Allen started getting disillusioned with Dorsey last year and gradually became de-motivated. I really don't think a person who showed himself to be so driven to succeed 2019- mid 2022 suddenly became lazy and complacent. I said in a different thread that my speculation is that much of Allen's decline could have come from a poor relationship with Dorsey the OC. 

I am happy to see his protection has improved and with Kincaid and Shakir coming along, his receiving options have improved from last year. 

This will not turn around over night. Mental issues take time to sort out. I will rabidly root for the rest of this season but I am mentally prepared to this being a lost season with missed playoffs. When in itself is a travesty for an Allen led team

Edited November 17, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

It’s possible if Cook is looking at the ball during the handoff then he could have recovered it. But is still would have bounced off his knee, lol.

After the fumble Cook seemed to become sugar-high Cook.  He ran really hard and fast.  But that was not what the sit down was supposed to be about- they were trying to stress ball security.

 

If the ball security message had gotten through he would have been looking to secure the handoff first.

[Fan in Chicago]

Just now, Einstein's Dog said:

After the fumble Cook seemed to become sugar-high Cook.  He ran really hard and fast.  But that was not what the sit down was supposed to be about- they were trying to stress ball security.

 

If the ball security message had gotten through he would have been looking to secure the handoff first.

Imo, the handoff issue was on Allen being lazy.

 

As for Cook after the fumble, McD should have given him a few plays off but not as long as he did . Cook did play like a man possessed after going back in 

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

The metrics demonstrate yes.

 

Why will you not answer the question?What do YOU believe?

[Low Positive]

21 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

For the past year +, there have been incessant threads and posts criticizing Dorsey and demanding that he be fired. I could not keep track of how many people started such threads and "official" fire Dorsey threads. Last year people moaned that the offense was not as good as the year before even though that was demonstrably false.

 

As you said, you don't care, but the offense was among the best statistically but people still wanted Dorsey's head and blamed him even though (as players have admitted) the problems were with execution.

 

In the end, we are are 5-5 when we should have been 7-2 because the defense gave up multiple game winning drives after the offense put us in a position to win (not to mention the ridiculous 12 men on the field).

 

McD fed Dorsey to the lions who have been calling for his head. Dorsey did not deserve it or the incessant criticism (in my view).

FWIW, there is no scenario that McDermott gets fired midseason and Ken Dorsey isn't also let go. What would (and probably should) have happened is both McD and Dorsey get the axe, Washington gets the interim HC job, and Brady the Interim OC job. If a HC gets fired because an offense with Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs can't score points, the OC will go too. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Not 100% on Allen.  Cook didn't look the ball in, he was looking ahead. And this was a guy who sat a quarter because of ball security issues.

 

His eyes should have been on that ball on the handoff.  If the handoff was poor, which it was, then the play most likely is a loss, but not a turnover.

You are not just wrong here, you are 300% comically wrong. 

 

Even starting in youth league a RB is taught to keep his eyes up an on the defense. It's his job to provide a space to place the ball(which he did) and know where he's headed once he gets it. It's the QBs job to get the ball in place. 

 

If the RB has his eyes down when he gets the ball he isn't ready to hit the hole.

 

[Coach Tuesday]

49 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

I really wonder if Allen started getting disillusioned with Dorsey last year and gradually became de-motivated. I really don't think a person who showed himself to be so driven to succeed 2019- mid 2022 suddenly became lazy and complacent. I said in a different thread that my speculation is that much of Allen's decline could have come from a poor relationship with Dorsey the OC. 

I am happy to see his protection has improved and with Kincaid and Shakir coming along, his receiving options have improved from last year. 

This will not turn around over night. Mental issues take time to sort out. I will rabidly root for the rest of this season but I am mentally prepared to this being a lost season with missed playoffs. When in itself is a travesty for an Allen led team

You are giving Allen wayyyy too much credit.

 

When the Cardinals were putting a study clause into Murray’s contract nobody was defending him as being “disillusioned with his playcaller.”  And Allen picked Dorsey in the first place.  It was supposed to be Allen’s guy coordinating Allen’s offense.

 

Allen 100% has become complacent.  It’s been obvious all season that he’s not putting in the work.

 

Allen is making tens of millions of dollars.  He’s single.  He loves to party (have seen enough smoke here).  He doesn’t love film study and believes his athletic ability will let him figure things out after the snap.  

I can understand it all and I love the guy but let’s not make excuses for him.  He just got his OC fired.  Time for him to take life a little more seriously if he truly wants to be great.  Allen’s entire approach this season has been “f— around and find out” and he just found out.  These are peoples’ livelihoods at stake.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Coach Tuesday

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You are giving Allen wayyyy too much credit.

 

When the Cardinals were putting a study clause into Murray’s contract nobody was defending him as being “disillusioned with his playcaller.”  And Allen picked Dorsey in the first place.  It was supposed to be Allen’s guy coordinating Allen’s offense.

 

Allen 100% has become complacent.  It’s been obvious all season that he’s not putting in the work.

Yea I give him credit for working his way up, for making himself into the QB he was in 2020- half 2022. Lazy bums don't do that. He is certainly has some share of blame to take. Absolutely not denying that and he needs to again work his way back up. 

 

As for Dorsey, haven't you ever known a girl/guy for a while, start dating him/her and then realize he/she is actually a controlling psycho (female canine)?

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

You are not just wrong here, you are 300% comically wrong. 

 

Even starting in youth league a RB is taught to keep his eyes up an on the defense. It's his job to provide a space to place the ball(which he did) and know where he's headed once he gets it. It's the QBs job to get the ball in place. 

 

If the RB has his eyes down when he gets the ball he isn't ready to hit the hole.

 

You seem to mistakenly think all situations are the same.  

 

Cook was benched for ball security issues.  When put back it seemed like he wanted to make up for it by focusing on running harder.  If Cook had been concentrating on prioritizing ball security I don't think Denver would have gotten that fumble.

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Yea I give him credit for working his way up, for making himself into the QB he was in 2020- half 2022. Lazy bums don't do that. He is certainly has some share of blame to take. Absolutely not denying that and he needs to again work his way back up. 

 

As for Dorsey, haven't you ever known a girl/guy for a while, start dating him/her and then realize he/she is actually a controlling psycho (female canine)?

 

 

It’s not binary either lazy or not.  It’s a question of complacency.  Allen took his foot off the gas this season - it happens.  Lots of folks have quite quit during the past couple of years.  It’s understandable but not excusable.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You are giving Allen wayyyy too much credit.

 

When the Cardinals were putting a study clause into Murray’s contract nobody was defending him as being “disillusioned with his playcaller.”  And Allen picked Dorsey in the first place.  It was supposed to be Allen’s guy coordinating Allen’s offense.

 

Allen 100% has become complacent.  It’s been obvious all season that he’s not putting in the work.

 

Allen is making tens of millions of dollars.  He’s single.  He loves to party (have seen enough smoke here).  He doesn’t love film study and believes his athletic ability will let him figure things out after the snap.  

I can understand it all and I love the guy but let’s not make excuses for him.  He just got his OC fired.  Time for him to take life a little more seriously if he truly wants to be great.

When you’re drinking so heavily you have to walk around with Pedialyte an oxygen mask it raises eyebrows. 
 

You saw it last year, he carried extra weight around the midsection, and then says in interviews I don’t do any upper body exercises at all. 
 

You get the small clips of “not over indulging in film”, how in the past he’s relied on his athleticism, or how he’s always trying to joke with Jordan Palmer while Burrow is “all ball” and you just kind of start getting the picture.

 

And then Allen himself came into Training Camp and said it: I can do more, I’ve never “been more into football”.

 

He can work harder and I do agree that he’s more Hollywood than his Firebaugh and Wyoming roots would imply.

 

With all that said - if we want world class results, we need to get Allen world class weapons and the Bills FO got Diggs and has done little else to give the team speed and playmaking. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You seem to mistakenly think all situations are the same.  

 

Cook was benched for ball security issues.  When put back it seemed like he wanted to make up for it by focusing on running harder.  If Cook had been concentrating on prioritizing ball security I don't think Denver would have gotten that fumble.

So what you say is that Cook should have done what he was trained specifically NOT to do over more than a decade and a half of coaching and likely tens of thousands of live reps an look where he shouldn't be. Because.... situations. Now you're not just mistaken, you're doubling down on having zero knowledge on the RB position. 

 

Not asking to be snarky here...but have you ever taken a handoff in an actual game of football. Not backyard with your buddies. Not on Madden. But an actual real live game? I have. And I can tell you with first hand knowledge that a handoff process is completely based on muscle memory and repetition. You start to think about the exchange or you start doing things differently and that will actually lead to LESS ball security. More of a chance of plays going wrong. Looking down would also not be bene as now you have no idea where tacklers are and can EASILY get stripped on a quick penetration. Your assertion that he should have been looking down for any reason there is just daffy.