DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[WideNine]

8 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I agree... with a qualifier.  

 

I'd say that Allen is a top-tier QB with the right coaching. 

 

I think Allen would set records under Andy Reid, for example.  But I don't think every NFL HC or OC would know how to optimize Allen's strengths while minimizing his weaknesses.  

 

Yep.

 

Last night was a perfect example of the frustration an OC may have with Allen.

 

Will wait to see what Marino and others have to say, but that pick he threw deep in our end of the field looked way similar to the one he tossed to the Bengals with a similar defense (only 3 - rushers, little pressure, and some knowledgeable folks said they were just playing quarters where the defender underneath was able to close on that poor pass).

That pick clearly shook Allen up and was in his head for a while... if he did throw the same kind of pick in the same kind of way in the same kind of situation, I could see why it would be hard to shake that off.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by WideNine

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 minutes ago, WideNine said:

I am old enough to remember how folks got fed up with Wade Phillips and pushed for his exit and we went through 2 decades of terrible HCs.

Not saying Wade did not have his blind spots - he did, but the org definitely took several steps backwards when he left. Sometimes it is about where someone fits best to do the best job they can do. I think McD is better suited as a HC that is more focused on managing the coaches and staff and ensuring QC for the team. As he has become more involved with the defense the overall quality of the team preparation and ability to execute in all 3 phases has trended downward.

Before he is run out the door with pitchforks and torches the organization may be better served going back to a formula that was working. And that was having a DC who could get in the weeds of preparing that side of the ball, and OC that is a proven offensive coach that can manage that side of the team while McD manages the overall team quality and coordination.

Dorsey was going to be held accountable for an offense that has taken steps backwards and that is a tough lesson for Allen who is the key piece of executing his offense. At the end of the day the performance of the players on offense really does affect the jobs and careers of coaches and coordinators.

 

 

4 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Wade was a defensive coach and his defense often were lights out  He didn't get the right guys to run the offense and never had a qb of Josh's caliber  A Wade Phillips defense didnt give up leads at end of games often

Ask any call in sports expert of the era, it was Wade not wearing headphones to keep in touch with the staff in the booth that doomed his tenure.  You could hear  Larry Felser's blood pressure spiking when Murphy would open the phone lines on Monday nights. 🤣

[JimBob2232]

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

McDermott just pulled a power play and people aren't seeing it.

 

Josh is being paid 43M per, so he isn't going anywhere.  Still, he reportedly had input into elevating Dorsey to OC, but the decision was McD's.  

 

McD has fired 4 coordinators in 7 years and likely will be under scrutiny if Buffalo doesn't get to the SB.  That's highly unlikely with this roster.  

 

Now, McD can spin this hire (and firing now) of Dorsey into that Josh wanted him and he did what he thought best for the franchise QB.  

 

McD gets another crack at an OC if the season continues going sideways.  And probably doesn't get fired by TPegs for this (so-far) bad season. 

 

Might seem a bit Machiavellian, but this is McD we're talking about.  

he had no choice.  One has to go.  The lower level one went.  Obvious call.  Now the question is whether McDermott goes or if beene/pegula gives another chance.  IMO that depends on if things turn around or if they are still as toxic as they appear.   
 

I feel like we need to clean house and bring in a new staff.  But also - I trust Beane to figure that out.  His loyalty to McDermott might be too much of a bias though.  
 

we’ll see…

[WideNine]

8 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Wade was a defensive coach and his defense often were lights out  He didn't get the right guys to run the offense and never had a qb of Josh's caliber  A Wade Phillips defense didnt give up leads at end of games often

 

He had a knack for getting the most out of defensive players and adjusting his schemes to fit the talent. I think if he was paired with a good OC and QB he could have done more, but he struggled identifying both of those during his tenure here.

That, and he told Ralph to mind his own business and that was usually a career-limiting move

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by WideNine

[KOKBILLS]

27 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

As a fan, it can be hard to assign blame.  How much of the offense's woes can we put on Beane?  McD?  Dorsey?  The players?   Looking at Dorsey, he didn't create those turnovers.  You've got to blame the players.  Then again, there might be shortcomings on how Dorsey prepares the team that make turnovers more likely.  

 

But if I was McD, I'd probably fire Dorsey, too.  You gotta hold somebody accountable and Dorsey is the offensive orchestra conductor.  His musicians haven't been playing beautiful music lately.

 

I am concerned, though, that McD doesn't seem to have a great relationship with his coordinators.  I'm also not sure why anyone should expect Brady to do better but hopefully he does.  

 

The main problem Dorsey had was the star QB regressing. No matter what anyone says, any stats that can be sighted, that's the way it looks. And that was going to be a death sentence for Ken... Period. It just can't happen at this point because Josh has already shown HOF capabilities. It may very well be all Josh's fault in the end... I don't know... But Josh Allen is going nowhere. And when he looks like he has at times this year, there's no way any OC can survive that for long. 

 

So ongoing is the quest to replace Daboll as the Josh whisperer... So to speak at least...

 

I still think the overall evidence points to this whole thing being more of a McD/Beane (can't get over the hump) problem... But they're not going anywhere... So... 

[BullBuchanan]

26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Again, he only has like 4 more INT's than Mahomes and 3 more than Burrow during the past 2 seasons coming into this year. And he has never cost us a single playoff game from a turnover with only 4 career turnovers.

 

Add the fumbles.

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

He called a high-low concept where a WR runs an out to the sideline like 15 yards down the field and another WR or TE runs an out 5 yards down the field. 
 

It makes the DB have to choose to cover one of them and Allen is supposed to throw to the other one. They run it like 5 times a game and it has led to a bunch of INTs. I think defenses have figured it out.

DB's have been coached to play the percentages and not to worry about the short route because they understand Josh's tendency is to choose the longer out.  Until he recognizes that and correctly picks the open route, which is mostly the short route open, it will continue.  The other option is ditch the play to eliminate the opportunity to make a bad decision.

[BillsVet]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

It’s self-serving, no doubt.  Makes very little sense after a Monday game in which the offense left the field with a lead and the D and ST blew it.  This is all about McD scapegoating Dorsey.  I don’t see it as Machiavellian though.  I see it as desperate because this season is barely even clinging to the brink and he probably would have had a mutiny on his hands if he didn’t do something. 

 

McD has fired a coordinator after or during the 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons.  I can't recall in recent years a HC of a very good team firing that many and it is sure to raise ownership's eyebrows.  Firing coordinators is evidence of dysfunction under his management of the team.  

 

They have 7 games now because McD ain't going anywhere during the season save for a catastrophic collapse.  I also think he benefits from TPegs likely not wanting to pay his 2024 and 2025 salaries with all those stadium cost over-runs on his tab now.  

 

[Bob Jones]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Daboll is coming back here to be HC, not OC.  Someone earlier mentioned a McD power play in canning Dorsey.  Josh has a little more leverage than McD, and if this season goes up in flames and Daboll gets canned we’ll see who has the juice at OBD. 

Any owner that would let a player dictate his team’s staffing decisions is weak and pathetic. I don’t see it happening, honestly. You don’t let the residents run the asylum.

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, JimBob2232 said:

he had no choice.  One has to go.  The lower level one went.  Obvious call.  Now the question is whether McDermott goes or if beene/pegula gives another chance.  IMO that depends on if things turn around or if they are still as toxic as they appear.   
 

I feel like we need to clean house and bring in a new staff.  But also - I trust Beane to figure that out.  His loyalty to McDermott might be too much of a bias though.  
 

we’ll see…

 

I mentioned this before but if McDermott does get fired then I hope they keep Beane. We will need a football man to lead the search for the next HC. Terry shouldn't be doing that.

[Old Coot]

Interesting firing given last night's O performance. The O's play was more lack of execution rather than poor playcalling.  maybe what got Dorsey fired was the fact that he didn't go with the run game until the last drive; that and the cumulative poor performances of the O in previous games.

 

Brady will run the same system -- you can't change systems mid-season. Hopefully he will learn from what happened to Dorsey and call better plays.

 

It will be interesting to see if we continue to go shotgun under Brady. Shotgun helps Josh make quicker reads. We'll see if they stay with it or go under center on passing plays.

 

Our running game was surprisingly very effective last night. I don't know how proficient the Broncos are against teh run. I do know that our O line is not good enough to run consistently against the better DL teams.

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Great relationships don't always lead to great results.  A certain friction/tension between higher ups gets more out of people.  Great relationships lead to complacency.  And that is what has happened with our organization.  Good is good enough.  It doesn't have to be great.  If the Bills were shooting for greatness they would have gotten rid of Frazier at the least after 13 seconds.  McDermott is not an innovator.  He thinks smaller is better on defense.  I have news for him playing DB's continuously at LB gets you run over, and your defense out of gas every week at the ends of games like last night, and in the Giants Bucs Pats and Bengals games. 

 

If I am Beane I am distancing myself fast from McDermott.  

 

This sounds like the theme of "Team of Rivals," and I don't agree.  I've been blessed to be part of some very high-performing military and business teams that were characterized by great relationships.  There was no complacency.  

 

Patton once said something to the effect that if ten people are thinking alike, then only nine are thinking.  Disagreement is a necessary part of a leadership team.  But the members of the team can still have great relationships.  

 

Look at Earnest Shackleton's leadership team.  His men described Shackleton like this, "The greatest leader than ever came on God's green earth, bar none..."  "I don't think there's any doubt that we all owe our lives to his leadership...."  "For all the best points of leadership the palm must be given to Shackleton."  There was extraordinarily little "friction/tension" on his leadership team.  Shackleton, in fact, did everything he could to minimize the tension and maximize the harmony.  His leadership team had great relationships and accomplished amazing things together.  

 

 

[34-30]

6 minutes ago, WideNine said:

That pick clearly shook Allen up and was in his head for a while... if he did throw the same kind of pick in the same kind of way in the same kind of situation, I could see why it would be hard to shake that off.

This is the REALLY concerning part, no?  He looks shaken. Your QB can't look that way. His demeanor at the podium..not good. 

[UKBillFan]

9 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Interm title, means maybe a new guy.  Maybe Daboll if he gets canned in NY

 

I did wonder if they may have one eye on Daboll should he be sacked by the Giants.

[wppete]

Good move. Can McDermott fire himself also? 

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

Add the fumbles.

 

I think it is also the kind of INTs we are seeing this year that make folks wonder what is going on.

I get a tipped ball, or everyone covered trying to thread it into a tight window, or 3rd and forever and he chucks it the length of the field and the INT amounts to a punt. But the INTs he is throwing deep in our own zone, to guys who are tightly covered with help underneath when there is no pressure on him and other guys are open are mind boggling.

That is what concerns me, not just a number as that could mean a lot of different things and situations so I don't get too hung up on that.


 

[hondo in seattle]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

McD has fired a coordinator after or during the 2021, 2022, and 2023 seasons.  I can't recall in recent years a HC of a very good team firing that many and it is sure to raise ownership's eyebrows.  Firing coordinators is evidence of dysfunction under his management of the team.  

 

They have 7 games now because McD ain't going anywhere during the season save for a catastrophic collapse.  I also think he benefits from TPegs likely not wanting to pay his 2024 and 2025 salaries with all those stadium cost over-runs on his tab now.  

 

 

Or it means he doesn't hire the right coordinators.  Which I suppose is just a different kind of dysfunction.  

 

Yeah, it's concerning that we can't get and keep the right coordinators.  

[Bruffalo]

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Which ones? I'm genuinely asking.

Cover1 can do a much better job of showing it than I could describe, and I'd encourage you to check them out.

1 minute ago, HoofHearted said:

Which ones? I'm genuinely asking.

Cover1 can do a much better job of showing it than I could describe, and I'd encourage you to check them out.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

If the giants call the bills up and offer daboll for McDermott, do you do it?

 

Daboll has arguably been a worse hc than McDermott so far 

[ExWNYer]

1 minute ago, wppete said:

Good move. Can McDermott fire himself also? 

 

If so, he'd probably have to wrestle with that decision...