Josh Allen 177 yards and 2 INTs

[Low Positive]

I really wish that could go back and take about half of that away. Especially the "I don't think he cares" part. I don't really believe that. I posted angry in the wake of a lost season. He does need to stop throwing INTs, especially the ones that DBs bait him into. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I generally agree with this. It’s what happened with Mahomes but they adjusted.

 

Not this year though. Mahomes and the Chiefs are struggling for the same reason we are, a poor group of pass catching weapons that don't complement each other at all. They are winning because of defense. I mean we crow about how well our defense performed against the Dolphins giving up 20 points. The Chiefs defense gave up 14 and scored 7.

 

What frustrates me most about the McDermott/Beane era is they have completely stripped away what makes Josh special. And to be fair, that is what a lot of Bills have inexplicably been asking for. Fans on one hand lash out at Josh for failing to throw checkdowns, and on the other hand say they wish we had 2021 playoffs Josh back. Does anybody on here actually remember what he did that year? He wasn't checking the ball down when Gabe Davis racked up 200 yards and 4 TDs in a single game.

 

So what do we do to a QB with elite physical skills and arguably the greatest arm in NFL history? Try to turn him into Tom Brady and surround him with average physical talents. Throw potshots at him in press conferences over his willingness to put his body on the line. Ask him to execute 12 play drives throwing the ball to smurfs over the middle. That just isn't who Josh has ever been or ever will be. I mean his downfield weapon this year is Deonte "Turf Toe" Harty?? Give me a break. We missed an opportunity to create a historically amazing offense by going all in on pass catching weapons that fit the mold of what Josh does well. And then fans get mad because he doesn't hit a 4th and 2 pass on the run to his smurf WR with t-rex arms.

 

The more I think about it the more I am certain they need to reset everything in the front office and coaching staff. Get an up and coming offensive mastermind to lead the team and a GM that will start prioritizing the right pieces.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

I really wish that could go back and take about half of that away. Especially the "I don't think he cares" part. I don't really believe that. I posted angry in the wake of a lost season. He does need to stop throwing INTs, especially the ones that DBs bait him into. 

 

Well, for what it’s worth you are far from alone. Lots of that going on. Everywhere. 

[Airseven]

29 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

Is he a stat compiler too ? 

No. He’s an MVP, Super Bowl champ, and sports current top record in AFC. While they haven’t fired on all cylinders yet, this level of critique is of no significance to him.

[pocoboy]

On 11/14/2023 at 8:12 AM, mannc said:

Targeting Harty on a deep out was ridiculous to begin with.  Just seems like this offense is built on a lot of low percentage throws….absolutely nothing is easy. There is something fundamentally wrong with this scheme.

 

It's compounded by what is likely a low diversity of formations & play calls from said formations. It's very possible that the little corner route Harty ran might be what teams identify as the biggest risk from whatever formation was employed there. If that's the case, they're going to call the optimal defense to counteract that. Especially if you do have a few counter plays, but the defense is confident in being able to bottle those up for minimal yards even with planning for Plan A.

 

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

It's compounded by what is likely a low diversity of formations & play calls from said formations. It's very possible that the little corner route Harty ran might be what teams identify as the biggest risk from whatever formation was employed there. If that's the case, they're going to call the optimal defense to counteract that. Especially if you do have a few counter plays, but the defense is confident in being able to bottle those up for minimal yards even with planning for Plan A.

 

People who know a lot more about football than I do were saying that you could tell the Bills plays based on formation. They established tendencies and then never broke those tendencies. Orlovsky said that yesterday. Like what Peppers said about his pick. He knew the play based upon the formation and that if he even cheated towards the low guy on the high/low concept Josh would take the high guy and he could jump the route. He said that he knew he was getting a pick before the snap of the ball. Dorsey should have been let go just based on that.

[C.Biscuit97]

37 minutes ago, Airseven said:

No. He’s an MVP, Super Bowl champ, and sports current top record in AFC. While they haven’t fired on all cylinders yet, this level of critique is of no significance to him.

Bills fans need to stop with the Mahomes-Allen comparisons at this point. It’s laughable. Imagine if the Bills traded Diggs away. Do we think Allen wins a MVP & SB? Mahomes is on a different level than almost any qb ever.

 

mahomes has learned that your awesome arm isn’t all that you need to have to win games and take what the defense gives you. Allen is absolutely amazing but he still plays too much hero ball which puts this team in bad spots. I also know that’s what makes him great but our margin for error is so much smaller. 

[Avisan]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I just feel like they tamed his game too much

 

Part of what makes Josh Allen so great is that he’s impossible to defend. If you have everything covered downfield he will just run for a first down.

 

They’ve taken that away from him they need to give it back

Defenses have taken that away.  They play contain and spy to force him to stay in the pocket as much as possible.  3 man rush with double spy has shown up from multiple teams, now.  Keep him in the pocket, take away the big play, bait turnovers.  It works.

 

His best games this season have been the ones where he has been willing to take the underneath and hot routes first as they come open instead of big play hunting.

[26TrapDraw]

Josh going through his progression:

ok Stef double covered nope

Gabe taking this play off I see nope.

Cook in the flat he’s open… nope he was for a second no better not. 
oooh the middle is open now Run!!!!

nope better not I’ll get in trouble.

Sigh Fuk This offense I’m so done with this shyt

better throw it out of…… Boom!!! Sack

Spencer Turnstile Brown sustained his block for .07 seconds and got Josh Killed

 

2023 Buffalo Bills Offense.

[Jauronimo]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

But the defense and special teams isn't taking any pressure off the offense either. We are constantly losing field position and time of possession. That stuff actually matters. Field position more than anything is why a lot of analytics tools say that our offense is better than the eye test would make you think. Our defense doesn't get turnovers. No big kickoff or punt returns. We don't force 3 and outs. And so our offense which features exactly zero explosive pass catchers is being asked to work 75+ yards down the field over and over and over again. So you get these weird statistical outcomes where Allen is leading in a lot of production and efficiency metrics but it isn't showing up on the scoreboard. And almost every play we make in the pass game ends at the catch point so Allen's right arm is solely responsible for moving the ball down the field. No championship offense in recent memory has been built like that.

In general, I agree with much of this.  But that was not the story Monday night and one look at the drive chart for Denver shows how badly the offense ***** the bed.

 

1st Half: Offense gifts the Broncos points on first play of the game. Defense holds Denver to a field goal.  Offense at least flips the field before turning the ball over again on the next possession.  Defense allows 30 yards.  The offense manages 18 yards on their next two possessions. You want better field position?  Maybe move the ball a bit before punting.  Two opportunities to help themselves and the D and they did nothing.  Defense begins another drive with Denver at or inside the 50 before allowing a TD on the most improbable completion since the last Russ Wilson ridiculous completion. Offense finally responds with a Td.  Defense concedes a field goal. Offense gifts Denver another 3 points after another brutal turnover.

 

Offense is basically +1 net points at the half.

 

2nd Half: Defense forces 3 and out.  Offense goes 4 plays and turns it over on downs at the 50. Defense asked once again to defend a short field and comes up with a huge turnover granting the offense field position.  Offense actually pulls their weight and scores a TD.  Game tied.  Defense forces a punt after 6 plays and 8 net yards.  With a chance to take their first lead of the night the offense turns the ball over at the 50 again as Allen can't execute the most basic of QB responsibilities.  Defense forced to defend a short field for the 4th or 5th time of the evening.  Defense forces a 3 and out punt.  With another chance to take a lead the offense punts after a 26 yard drive.  

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401547537

 

[MJS]

So, it's obvious you don't watch other teams.

 

Mahomes threw for 240 yards, 0 TD's, and 2 INT's against Denver last week. Against the Jets he threw for 203 yards, 1 TD, and 2 INT's.

 

Joe Burrow threw for 82 yards week 1. 82! No TD's. He threw 2 TD's the entire first 4 weeks combined, plus multiple sub-200 yard passing games.

 

Justin Herbert has 4 games below 60% completion percentage this year. He has a game he threw for only 167 yards and another for only 136. Multiple games where his INT's met or exceeded his TD throws.

 

So, I agree with the premise that Josh Allen hasn't been playing his best and he needs to shoulder some of the blame, but you are completely wrong about other elite QB's not having poor performances. They do. It is just a fact.

[HappyDays]

I mean this is crazy:

 

I know "turnover worthy play" is kind of a subjective thing, but we have all seen that almost every single possible interception has been caught. Some plays that shouldn't have been intercepted have turned into interceptions. Every one of Allen's fumbles have been recovered by the defense. It is unprecedented bad turnover luck driving a lot of this conversation.

[Low Positive]

48 minutes ago, MJS said:

So, it's obvious you don't watch other teams.

 

Mahomes threw for 240 yards, 0 TD's, and 2 INT's against Denver last week. Against the Jets he threw for 203 yards, 1 TD, and 2 INT's.

 

Joe Burrow threw for 82 yards week 1. 82! No TD's. He threw 2 TD's the entire first 4 weeks combined, plus multiple sub-200 yard passing games.

 

Justin Herbert has 4 games below 60% completion percentage this year. He has a game he threw for only 167 yards and another for only 136. Multiple games where his INT's met or exceeded his TD throws.

 

So, I agree with the premise that Josh Allen hasn't been playing his best and he needs to shoulder some of the blame, but you are completely wrong about other elite QB's not having poor performances. They do. It is just a fact.

I watched every one of those games, or at least the two Mahomes games and the Burrow game. I already admitted that I posted out of anger and regret creating this thread. But I don't want to delete it because there is a discussion here.

[Billiam93]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Jim Kelly

George Kittel

Cole Beasley

Justin Tuck

Mark Schlereth

London Fletcher 

 

These are all guys who publicly admitted they vomit before games.

 

 

 

 

Okay and how many Super Bowl champion QB’s are on that list. I think it would be fine to be that panicked before games if you don’t play qb. Because most other positions can channel that into a blind fight or flight type aggression. But QB is just so cerebral. You need so much composure.

[MJS]

59 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I mean this is crazy:

 

I know "turnover worthy play" is kind of a subjective thing, but we have all seen that almost every single possible interception has been caught. Some plays that shouldn't have been intercepted have turned into interceptions. Every one of Allen's fumbles have been recovered by the defense. It is unprecedented bad turnover luck driving a lot of this conversation.

Yes, and I can't recall a dropped INT this year either. If it has been anywhere near a defender they get it this year.

[olddays1]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:18 AM, ddaryl said:

Josh is definetely not the QB he was in 2021... He's throwing into coverages and not seeing the obvious defenders. He's missing plenty of open options, he isn't running the football like he used to, and all we asked of him was to slide instead of taking a hit. His long ball accuracy is non existent. He is not on the same page with Davis.

Josh needs to work on Josh. We have other issues but Josh has issues to fix himself

Maybe lay off the ammonia poppers he snorts before taking the field for each drive.

[oldmanfan]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Not this year though. Mahomes and the Chiefs are struggling for the same reason we are, a poor group of pass catching weapons that don't complement each other at all. They are winning because of defense. I mean we crow about how well our defense performed against the Dolphins giving up 20 points. The Chiefs defense gave up 14 and scored 7.

 

What frustrates me most about the McDermott/Beane era is they have completely stripped away what makes Josh special. And to be fair, that is what a lot of Bills have inexplicably been asking for. Fans on one hand lash out at Josh for failing to throw checkdowns, and on the other hand say they wish we had 2021 playoffs Josh back. Does anybody on here actually remember what he did that year? He wasn't checking the ball down when Gabe Davis racked up 200 yards and 4 TDs in a single game.

 

So what do we do to a QB with elite physical skills and arguably the greatest arm in NFL history? Try to turn him into Tom Brady and surround him with average physical talents. Throw potshots at him in press conferences over his willingness to put his body on the line. Ask him to execute 12 play drives throwing the ball to smurfs over the middle. That just isn't who Josh has ever been or ever will be. I mean his downfield weapon this year is Deonte "Turf Toe" Harty?? Give me a break. We missed an opportunity to create a historically amazing offense by going all in on pass catching weapons that fit the mold of what Josh does well. And then fans get mad because he doesn't hit a 4th and 2 pass on the run to his smurf WR with t-rex arms.

 

The more I think about it the more I am certain they need to reset everything in the front office and coaching staff. Get an up and coming offensive mastermind to lead the team and a GM that will start prioritizing the right pieces.

He didn’t need to check down in the Chiefs game because their D allowed Davis to get wide open time after time.

[26TrapDraw]

Watched Kurt Warners Breakdown of the Denver game. I couldn’t believe it. It’s Josh. He’s playing like shyt.

[90sBills]

7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

He didn’t need to check down in the Chiefs game because their D allowed Davis to get wide open time after time.

This is the first time I’ve seen anyone on here acknowledge this about that game. KC’s db’s were so bad they were tripping over themselves. Their gm realized this and restocked almost the whole defensive backfield with draft picks they got from the Tyreek Hill trade. Gotta give them credit for hitting on virtually all their picks.

 

Allen was amazing in that game though. It would be nice to see that version of him again soon.