Josh’s off seasons

[stlbills13]

There are a lot of problems on this team. And unfortunately, Josh Allen is one of them.

 

He just doesn't seem to have the same preparation, focus, intensity, energy as he has in the past. Some of that is the moronic coaching of trying to rein him in too far. Some of it is probably injury making it harder to do all of that while constantly rehabbing, being in pain, etc. But some of it is definitely that I just don't see the effort from him. Maybe it's his personal life. Maybe it's just who he is. But it's a problem. 

[hondo in seattle]

9 hours ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I know Josh loves golf and that is fine but it sure seems like he has not focused on training with WRs or development the last couple of seasons  as he has become more Hollywood. I don’t want to believe it and these guys definitely need an off season to reboot but I hope he gets back to training with Palmer and maybe throwing some with WRs. 

 

I was a little worried not only about that but also about his comment earlier this year that he studies film but doesn't overdo it.  

[bigK14094]

9 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Allen doesn't do ***** in the offseason, he admitted it.  He will progressively regress each year he gets older.   He's not mentally there right now

To many commercials.  His right, but his mind is not on football.  He is maximizing income when he can.  Not going to be to long though the way he is playing.  He is also not being himself on the field, lack of scramble is a symptom of how he is being coached.  Coached to be average, not great.

[beebe]

12 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

To many commercials.  His right, but his mind is not on football.  He is maximizing income when he can.  Not going to be to long though the way he is playing.  He is also not being himself on the field, lack of scramble is a symptom of how he is being coached.  Coached to be average, not great.

 

So Josh Allen is doing too many commercials and his "mind is not on football." 

 

Are you suggesting that Mahomes' mind is not on football? Is Kelce's mind not on football? How do they keep winning, year after year, while simultaneously golfing all summer, doing SNL, dozens of commercials, traveling around to MLB playoff games and World Series games and Taylor Swift concerts in Argentina (in season!) Mahomes is at MLB and NBA games at least once a week. Even Andy Reid has been in State Farm and Snickers commercials just this year. Is his mind not on football? 

 

You can walk and chew gum at the same time. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

I don’t agree. He’s not surrounded by Mac Jones, Bryce Young, CJ Stroud type of no name talent. And while it would be nice to surround him with more game breakers and a wall of an oline, he does have enough now to consistently move the ball and score points. Many of his strange INTs come without pressure in his face, which suggests that he’s not reading the defense correctly. If he was more of a student of the game he’d know where to go with the ball when the defense gives a certain look. You’d see less double clutching and plays that take over 3+ seconds to get rid of the ball. More importantly you’d see less turnovers which are an absolute killer. If he spent every waking moment studying film in the offseason, I’d say it’s a good bet that we’d see a sizable jump in his mental processing the very next season. 

Over the last few years while playing with a largely average cast of offensive players Allen has been wildly successful and taken the team to 3 straight division titles and 4 straight playoff appearances.  This far exceeds anything Mac Jones has done so there is no comparison.  As for the 2 rookie QB's how about we wait another season to see how that works out.  Baker Mayfield was amazing his rookie year and then what happened?

 

Allen's total TD to total TO ratio is 2 to 1.  While it would be nice to see it at 3 to 1 that is not a bad number.  IMO Allen's off season efforts are not the problem here.  The problem is the situation Allen finds himself in with a defensive minded coach who won't do what every other contending SB team is doing with their elite franchise QB - prioritizing the O and surrounding their QB with the best possible talent that will fit under the CAP.

 

And wait until you see what the Texans do over the next couple of seasons if Stroud is for real - they will load up on their offense that's what they will do.  You can bank on it.

 

 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Many fans are going to exhaust their blame on everyone else (coaches, O-Line, weapons) before they dare to point the finger at Josh Allen.  And I get it.  You can fix roster issues in a single offseason.  You can even restart with a new coaching staff.  But once your QB becomes the team's biggest problem, it's game over.  A total rebuild is usually needed.

 

It pains me to say it.  But Allen is absolutely one of the biggest problems on the Bills right now.  Yes, I totally agree with firing Ken Dorsey and upgrading Gabe Davis.  We could do more to surround him with help.  But I've seen Allen do more with less than what he's got now.  His regression has been clear and obvious over the last season plus (Green Bay game last year).  I don't care about leading the NFL in completion percentage.  The big plays aren't there like they used to be.  He's not running the ball anymore or striking fear into defenses.  He's missing open receivers and telegraphing his throws.  And he's good for at least one ridiculously stupid interception per game, at the bare minimum.

 

None of us can see behind the scenes.  But there are lots of hints that he's just not putting the work in like he used to.  I think some fans just like the guy (who can blame them), and so they ignore all the warning signs.

 

Over his first 3 seasons, all we heard about was Allen working on his mechanics off the field during the offseason.  There is a reason that every single Bills fan knows who Jordan Palmer is, even though he's never been employed or played for the organization.  Now we hear that Allen is resting/healing, playing golf, and obviously spending a bunch of time filming commercials.  He's admitted in interviews to not being much of a film guy, which really explains a lot of the throws we've seen from him lately.

 

Lots of people want to blame 13 Seconds for de-railing this franchise.  But I think it was the ensuing offseason that really did it.  The hype over this team was ridiculous, and people were touting Josh Allen as the NFL's next great QB.  His ego swelled.  His work ethic started to slack.  And the organization itself decided to hire HIS choice for offensive coordinator, when they literally could have hired anyone to come and work with our quarterback.  Dorsey has been a disaster as a play-caller.  And instead of pushing Allen to be better, he's allowed him to lose focus and drive.

 

 

I want the Allen back that had a chip on his shoulder yelling "I don't know who the fork they though I was" in a playoff game. I don't think he is lazy. And I don't think he is Hollywood.

 

But I do think he has lost that chip on his shoulder and has bought into his own hype a bit. 

He spent an NFL career running on moxie, physicality/physiology, and chaos, but you can't survive as an NFL QB off of that. I think he his feedback loop runs on false positives; the idea that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Allen, fairly early in his career completed a lot of plays that others couldn't make, but also that he maybe shouldn't have even attempted. Doesn't see the open guy, scrambles, play breaks down, chucks it off his back leg into double coverage, 30 yard TD. Cheers, pats on back, congratulations. He completed more of these types of plays with more success than anybody, maybe ever. 

But it isn't sustainable. Teams know it is his go to, so they sit back and wait for it. His game needs to takes its next step in its evolution. 

 

Peyton said this during the broadcast and it gave me pause. "If you have to throw it that hard maybe you should think about not throwing it at all."

[Bigantall]

10 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

In fairness to Josh, this is the type of thing that only becomes an issue, or even a thought, when we are losing and things aren't going well.

 

If we are undefeated right now and Josh looks like the MVP, no one is talking about his summer time golf.

 

It does seem like he isn't as committed as he could be.  Most guys at this level are not.

 

 

What you said makes absolutely no sense 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

 

So Josh Allen is doing too many commercials and his "mind is not on football." 

 

Are you suggesting that Mahomes' mind is not on football? Is Kelce's mind not on football? How do they keep winning, year after year, while simultaneously golfing all summer, doing SNL, dozens of commercials, traveling around to MLB playoff games and World Series games and Taylor Swift concerts in Argentina (in season!) Mahomes is at MLB and NBA games at least once a week. Even Andy Reid has been in State Farm and Snickers commercials just this year. Is his mind not on football? 

 

You can walk and chew gum at the same time. 

While Mahomes does a helluva a lot more commercials than Allen, he also made time in the offseason to train with his receivers. Some people can engage in fun activities of life while still being committed to their craft. It’s starting to be clear that Allen isn’t that type of personality. 

[ngbills]

12 hours ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I know Josh loves golf and that is fine but it sure seems like he has not focused on training with WRs or development the last couple of seasons  as he has become more Hollywood. I don’t want to believe it and these guys definitely need an off season to reboot but I hope he gets back to training with Palmer and maybe throwing some with WRs. 

Merit to the story. As an outsider looking in we saw Josh at Golf Tourneys and out or on vacations with his new lady. We did not hear much at all about training or workouts except for a couple days here or there. When Allen talked he was more excited talking about his golf game than football. He made a comment at one point about being a kid from Firebaugh he has already done way more than he could have imagined. The concern is Josh has already made it. Time will tell if he is going to stay driven to get better or take the cash and ride into the sunset. 

[Lost]

2 hours ago, stlbills13 said:

There are a lot of problems on this team. And unfortunately, Josh Allen is one of them.

 

He just doesn't seem to have the same preparation, focus, intensity, energy as he has in the past. Some of that is the moronic coaching of trying to rein him in too far. Some of it is probably injury making it harder to do all of that while constantly rehabbing, being in pain, etc. But some of it is definitely that I just don't see the effort from him. Maybe it's his personal life. Maybe it's just who he is. But it's a problem. 

 

I think Josh's overconfidence in his abilities makes him believe he can do it without putting in the extra work.   

[ngbills]

I think the Diggs issues are tied to this. Diggs bust his butt and he wants everyone else to do it as well. 

[Brand J]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Over the last few years while playing with a largely average cast of offensive players Allen has been wildly successful and taken the team to 3 straight division titles and 4 straight playoff appearances.  This far exceeds anything Mac Jones has done so there is no comparison.  As for the 2 rookie QB's how about we wait another season to see how that works out.  Baker Mayfield was amazing his rookie year and then what happened?

 

Allen's total TD to total TO ratio is 2 to 1.  While it would be nice to see it at 3 to 1 that is not a bad number.  IMO Allen's off season efforts are not the problem here.  The problem is the situation Allen finds himself in with a defensive minded coach who won't do what every other contending SB team is doing with their elite franchise QB - prioritizing the O and surrounding their QB with the best possible talent that will fit under the CAP.

 

And wait until you see what the Texans do over the next couple of seasons if Stroud is for real - they will load up on their offense that's what they will do.  You can bank on it.

 

 

You’re missing the point. I’m not comparing Josh to those QBs, he’s accomplished so much more obviously. My point was that the offensive personnel he has to work with is superior to what those guys are working with as well as others not mentioned. We’d love for Josh to be protected by an impenetrable oline, to be throwing to two #1 wide receivers, to be handing the ball off to an all world RB, the offense should be easy in that setup but if he needs all of that for the offense to be counted on game after game, then we’re in trouble.
 

If Hopkins was the intended target on that Harty INT last night, we’d get the same result. Ditto for the last game where Allen tried to throw to Davis in the honey hole. The Jets INTs? I mean we could go on and on. If he was sharper mentally and dedicated himself to really breaking down defensive film and tendencies, to the point he knew where his answers always were in any given coverage, I’d be shocked if the offense didn’t look much better. 
 

I wasn’t excited by the Dorsey firing, because I don’t expect the offense to suddenly improve by leaps and bounds. Throws were available in Dorsey’s offense as well, but the execution was lacking. I would’ve been far more excited if I had read that McD had been relieved of his duties. We’ll see what happens under Joe Brady, but I surmise we’ll have many of the same complaints. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

You’re missing the point. I’m not comparing Josh to those QBs, he’s accomplished so much more obviously. My point was that the offensive personnel he has to work with is superior to what those guys are working with as well as others not mentioned. We’d love for Josh to be protected by an impenetrable oline, to be throwing to two #1 wide receivers, to be handing the ball off to an all world RB, the offense should be easy in that setup but if he needs all of that for the offense to be counted on game after game, then we’re in trouble.
 

If Hopkins was the intended target on that Harty INT last night, we’d get the same result. Ditto for the last game where Allen tried to throw to Davis in the honey hole. The Jets INTs? I mean we could go on and on. If he was sharper mentally and dedicated himself to really breaking down defensive film and tendencies, to the point he knew where his answers always were in any given coverage, I’d be shocked if the offense didn’t look much better. 
 

I wasn’t excited by the Dorsey firing, because I don’t expect the offense to suddenly improve by leaps and bounds. Throws were available in Dorsey’s offense as well, but the execution was lacking. I would’ve been far more excited if I had read that McD had been relieved of his duties. We’ll see what happens under Joe Brady, but I surmise we’ll have many of the same complaints. 

My point has been to compare Allen's cast of offensive supporting players to what the other franchise QB's on teams that are serious SB contenders have and IMO Allen's are a big step below them. I make this point to show how the problems bedeviling the Bills offense today has little to do with Allen and almost everything to do with strategic choices made by McD/Bean 5 years ago.  

 

I think we both can agree though that McD bears more responsibility then either Allen or Dorsey for the sorry state of the offense this season.  He owns both the strategic direction the Bills took to emphasize defense at the expense of the offense and his meddling this season has resulted in a precipitous decline in the offense.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, JackKemp said:

Mahomes is in more commercials and plays a lot of golf too. Kelce is playing well and yet is “distracted” by Taylor Swift and doing a lot of commercials.

 

i didn't say anything about commercials.

 

Josh is not putting in the work to get better during the offseason

 

 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

You’re missing the point. I’m not comparing Josh to those QBs, he’s accomplished so much more obviously. My point was that the offensive personnel he has to work with is superior to what those guys are working with as well as others not mentioned. We’d love for Josh to be protected by an impenetrable oline, to be throwing to two #1 wide receivers, to be handing the ball off to an all world RB, the offense should be easy in that setup but if he needs all of that for the offense to be counted on game after game, then we’re in trouble.
 

If Hopkins was the intended target on that Harty INT last night, we’d get the same result. Ditto for the last game where Allen tried to throw to Davis in the honey hole. The Jets INTs? I mean we could go on and on. If he was sharper mentally and dedicated himself to really breaking down defensive film and tendencies, to the point he knew where his answers always were in any given coverage, I’d be shocked if the offense didn’t look much better. 
 

I wasn’t excited by the Dorsey firing, because I don’t expect the offense to suddenly improve by leaps and bounds. Throws were available in Dorsey’s offense as well, but the execution was lacking. I would’ve been far more excited if I had read that McD had been relieved of his duties. We’ll see what happens under Joe Brady, but I surmise we’ll have many of the same complaints. 

I wasn’t excited but it was needed. But seems about as much of a win win that we could get w/ exception of McD being relieved. If we pull off a miracle and win next seven games then we IDd a problem.  If not, which is more likely, it definitely creates a compelling case to fire McD. I am so grateful of the turn around and what he has done but he is a poor coach when game is on the line and team is regressing. Time for a change if we hope to salvage what is left.