My theory: McDermott never liked Daboll's high flying offense, but had to go along with it

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BillsFan692 said:

Dont be so intentionally obtuse. Technically yes, those guys did quit and took new jobs with new teams.

 

However in this context, it matters if it was on good terms or not. But you know that already, dont you? Why would I have to spell that out for you.

 

And before you start your "it was on good terms" BS let me stop you right there. These two coaches couldnt even shake eachothers hands at midfield there is serious beef.

 

You specifically worded it "HE QUIT" in all caps because it's a negative slant towards McDermott.  Now you're trying to use that you're right because of a technicality lol?  So if you were a sports writer, would your headline be...."Brian Daboll QUITS the Buffalo Bills to become the HC of the NYJ"

 

I know there is tension, everyone can see it.  I'm not arguing that.  

 

The context is all of them are promotions.  This isn't the first or last HC/Coordinator that didn't get along.

[Bferra13]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

Points win games. It's senseless to think not to score points.  No matter how. Maybe McDermott and defense need to act faster.

I agree with you 100%. The whole thing is ridiculous if true.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

I'm no fan of Dorsey, but I think what we're seeing is the type of offensive approach that McDermott has ALWAYS wanted. Not that he doesn't want points, but he wants "balance." 

 

McD is a smart guy, a great defensive mind, but also an Alpha. This is HIS team. He has an idea of how to win. 

 

The difference with Daboll was that he did it his way, throwing 10-15 times in a row to start games and having guys flying all over the place. Allen was a bulldozer. The offense was cranking.

 

I think McDermott was uncomfortable with that approach and probably tried to get Daboll to change and that's the cause of the obvious tension between the 2 that got worse and worse until the end. At the end of the day, McDermott couldn't say too much because it was working and the team was winning and the players would have probably sided with Daboll if things blew up about it, so McDermott had to just go along with it.

 

Why else would McD have such hard feelings about Daboll? And he does, we don't need to argue the blatantly obvious. 

 

Obviously McD wants wins. Ultimately the HC gets the most credit, along with the QB. So it's a tense standoff. 

 

If it came down to a "him or me" argument McD might not have been the owner's (or superstar QBs) choice when the offense is scoring at will and Allen is becoming a superstar and the team is winning "because of offense" (which also must have driven him crazy on some level). 

 

It was also the defense that let the team down in 13 seconds. 

 

As a HC, I can see how he might see it as Daboll trying to one up him. I could see him feeling disrespected, regardless of the outcome of it. He's the HC and it's supposed to be his program, but the OC was a big personality who was getting all sorts of credit for doing the opposite of what McD wanted. 

 

What was McD going to do? Fire him? There would have been a mutiny. McD would have lost the locker room. 

 

But now, Dorsey is just a guy and McDermott can put his stamp on the offense. Now offensive guys are frustrated, unhappy, and want their offense back, regardless of who is calling the plays. 

 

That's the reason for the Diggs outbursts, Allen's malaise, and Florio's obnoxious "Jenga tower" articles after every Bills loss. 

 

My theory anyway as to what is going on with the offense. I'm not sure how much it matters who the OC is. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure it had something to do with the rift between McD and Daboll.  They obviously hate each other.  You can tell from end of the Giants game.  They sought to stay away from each other.

 

McD may want balance but he isn't that deeply involved on the offense. The design and the playcalls are Dorsey.

 

I can envision it though:  "If you wouldn't have scored that td so fast then I wouldn't have had to worry about those 13 seconds."  

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

\

The Bills since 2020 lead the league by a wide margin in point differential.  They are in the least amount of nail biters of any team in the NFL.

 

How about just this year and not some ancient history?  Dolphins, Commanders, Raiders. Those 3 teams we blew out. The other 6 games this season were all nailbiters win or lose.

[blitzboy54]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

I'm no fan of Dorsey, but I think what we're seeing is the type of offensive approach that McDermott has ALWAYS wanted. Not that he doesn't want points, but he wants "balance." 

 

McD is a smart guy, a great defensive mind, but also an Alpha. This is HIS team. He has an idea of how to win. 

 

The difference with Daboll was that he did it his way, throwing 10-15 times in a row to start games and having guys flying all over the place. Allen was a bulldozer. The offense was cranking.

 

I think McDermott was uncomfortable with that approach and probably tried to get Daboll to change and that's the cause of the obvious tension between the 2 that got worse and worse until the end. At the end of the day, McDermott couldn't say too much because it was working and the team was winning and the players would have probably sided with Daboll if things blew up about it, so McDermott had to just go along with it.

 

Why else would McD have such hard feelings about Daboll? And he does, we don't need to argue the blatantly obvious. 

 

Obviously McD wants wins. Ultimately the HC gets the most credit, along with the QB. So it's a tense standoff. 

 

If it came down to a "him or me" argument McD might not have been the owner's (or superstar QBs) choice when the offense is scoring at will and Allen is becoming a superstar and the team is winning "because of offense" (which also must have driven him crazy on some level). 

 

It was also the defense that let the team down in 13 seconds. 

 

As a HC, I can see how he might see it as Daboll trying to one up him. I could see him feeling disrespected, regardless of the outcome of it. He's the HC and it's supposed to be his program, but the OC was a big personality who was getting all sorts of credit for doing the opposite of what McD wanted. 

 

What was McD going to do? Fire him? There would have been a mutiny. McD would have lost the locker room. 

 

But now, Dorsey is just a guy and McDermott can put his stamp on the offense. Now offensive guys are frustrated, unhappy, and want their offense back, regardless of who is calling the plays. 

 

That's the reason for the Diggs outbursts, Allen's malaise, and Florio's obnoxious "Jenga tower" articles after every Bills loss. 

 

My theory anyway as to what is going on with the offense. I'm not sure how much it matters who the OC is. 

 

 

 

 

I would take it step further and say in 2021 during the offensive lull I wonder if McD got his way. I could see Daboll telling him to pack sand toward the end of the year and opening things back up. Under this scenario not only did McD choke away our best shot at a SB in 30 years he damn near derailed the season. 

 

They clearly hate each other, and in case it's not already obvious I am FIRMLY on team Daboll. I would have kept him and let McD walk. Would have been super controversial but worth it.  

 

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I'm sure it had something to do with the rift between McD and Daboll.  They obviously hate each other.  You can tell from end of the Giants game.  They sought to stay away from each other.

 

McD may want balance but he isn't that deeply involved on the offense. The design and the playcalls are Dorsey.

 

I can envision it though:  "If you wouldn't have scored that td so fast then I wouldn't have had to worry about those 13 seconds."  

 

How about just this year and not some ancient history?  Dolphins, Commanders, Raiders. Those 3 teams we blew out. The other 6 games this season were all nailbiters win or lose.

 

I wouldn't call it ancient history when it's a lot of the same components.  

 

But yeah, this year is different.  We suck right now.

[Scott7975]

59 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So every time an Assistant Coordinator gets promoted to a HC role, they quit?  

Shanahan quit the Falcons?

Saleh quit the 49ers?

Siranni quit the Colts?

 

Yes, when you leave your current job to go to a new job you quit your job.  That isn't saying anything bad.  I guess you could call it left your job or gave your notice at your job.  It's still quit your job.  Unless maybe the contract ran out and you can say parted ways.  Or you get fired because they don't want you.  In that case, they didn't quit.

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I wouldn't call it ancient history when it's a lot of the same components.  

 

But yeah, this year is different.  We suck right now.

 

I only say ancient history because as far as I'm concerned we have a break point.  Daboll's offense and Dorsey's offense.  Some people want to think they are one in the same but they are not.  There are clear differences in how the offense is run.  The personnel isn't even the same.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I never said he was fired. 

 

I said McD kind of had to accept that Daboll was going to go rogue and do it his way and couldn't really do anything about it without losing the locker room, which probably drove him nuts. 

 

I see people can't read well. I did write a lot of text, so it's probably my fault. 

 

Check out sentence #2. 

 

lots of text---none of it made sense in support of your contention that McD disliked the Offense Daboll was running.   Why on earth would he have an issue with a very successful offense that scored a lot of points?  McD has no Offensive acumen, why would he care?  How could be "uncomfortable with that"?

 

your premise is flawed. 

[Lagoon Blues]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

That could be it.

 

I think it could be as simple as their personalities just don't get along.

 

McDermott is a buttoned up, disciplined and very organized guy.  Probably irons his polos and makes his bed to a perfect hotel quality tuck every morning.

Doesn't like comedies like Office Space and Super Troopers.  His comedy interests are probably Grumpy Old Men and 3 Men and a Baby.

 

Daboll caught hitting that vape more than once on TV and he was probably ripping that all the time at OBD, loud, a little sloppy, probably gets pizza cheese on his beard and doesn't wipe it off.  Probably has the smell of Buffalo Trace and weed on his breath in the mornings.  Loves Office Space and Super Troopers....probably Mr. Bean.   

Bravo....and good choice of bourbon.  

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

I'm no fan of Dorsey, but I think what we're seeing is the type of offensive approach that McDermott has ALWAYS wanted. Not that he doesn't want points, but he wants "balance." 

 

McD is a smart guy, a great defensive mind, but also an Alpha. This is HIS team. He has an idea of how to win. 

 

The difference with Daboll was that he did it his way, throwing 10-15 times in a row to start games and having guys flying all over the place. Allen was a bulldozer. The offense was cranking.

 

I think McDermott was uncomfortable with that approach and probably tried to get Daboll to change and that's the cause of the obvious tension between the 2 that got worse and worse until the end. At the end of the day, McDermott couldn't say too much because it was working and the team was winning and the players would have probably sided with Daboll if things blew up about it, so McDermott had to just go along with it.

 

Why else would McD have such hard feelings about Daboll? And he does, we don't need to argue the blatantly obvious. 

 

Obviously McD wants wins. Ultimately the HC gets the most credit, along with the QB. So it's a tense standoff. 

 

If it came down to a "him or me" argument McD might not have been the owner's (or superstar QBs) choice when the offense is scoring at will and Allen is becoming a superstar and the team is winning "because of offense" (which also must have driven him crazy on some level). 

 

It was also the defense that let the team down in 13 seconds. 

 

As a HC, I can see how he might see it as Daboll trying to one up him. I could see him feeling disrespected, regardless of the outcome of it. He's the HC and it's supposed to be his program, but the OC was a big personality who was getting all sorts of credit for doing the opposite of what McD wanted. 

 

What was McD going to do? Fire him? There would have been a mutiny. McD would have lost the locker room. 

 

But now, Dorsey is just a guy and McDermott can put his stamp on the offense. Now offensive guys are frustrated, unhappy, and want their offense back, regardless of who is calling the plays. 

 

That's the reason for the Diggs outbursts, Allen's malaise, and Florio's obnoxious "Jenga tower" articles after every Bills loss. 

 

My theory anyway as to what is going on with the offense. I'm not sure how much it matters who the OC is. 

 

 

 

 

 

Entirely possible.  Probably went along because it was working but never liked it.  With Daboll gone, McDermott can do what he wants and I'm sure Dorsey won't go against him.

[Scott7975]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

lots of text---none of it made sense in support of your contention that McD disliked the Offense Daboll was running.   Why on earth would he have an issue with a very successful offense that scored a lot of points?  McD has no Offensive acumen, why would he care?  How could be "uncomfortable with that"?

 

your premise is flawed. 

 

McD did not like we didn't run the football.  That was pretty clear as he talked about it almost every week and still does.  McD and Daboll also had a clear problem with each other.  It was reported on even before Daboll started interviewing for coaching jobs.  It was also clear as day after the Giants game.  Now what their actual rift is, I don't know.  I can't say.  I would imagine they didn't like each other's philosophies though.

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

Am i tripping or didn't Dabol leave because he got a hc offer? 

 

I know there's tension but he was never fired, he took a promotion with a different franchise. 

There was a rumor he would have taken a lateral move. He was butting heads with McDermott all season.

 

I’m not going to pretend to know who was the more unreasonable one.

[2003Contenders]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

I don't buy this McD doesn't want a high power offense. Was he not in Carolina with Newton and one of the best offenses that year? Also, I've never once heard McDermott say he wants to be more conservative. I think if anything, McD is probably somewhat responsible for trying to make Josh more of a pocket passer, but I just don't buy that McDermott wants a jauron style offense. 

Interesting that you bring up the Cam Newton offense from 2015 -- McD was there to watch as Newton fell off the cliff the following year and observe what an accumulation of punishment can do the body. He is clearly mindful of that as it relates to Josh, and constant reminders from him about not overworking Josh as a ball carrier are likely part of what he meant by being involved in some of the offensive play calling.

 

It is also clear that he wants to run the ball more. McD has been very vocal about that, and he is right that a quality running game would do wonders for this team. That is true in terms of opening things up for Josh and the play-action pass as well as being able to control the football in less than ideal weather conditions. When he was here Daboll rarely seemed interested in trying to genuinely institute a running game -- and when he did, it often seemed forced. Almost like he was flipping McD the bird and saying, "You want to run the ball more? I'll show you..."

 

The problem is that -- especially as we saw against the Bengals Sunday night -- the Bills don't have the personnel to consistently run the ball against a quality defense.

[Mr. WEO]

17 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

McD did not like we didn't run the football.  That was pretty clear as he talked about it almost every week and still does.  McD and Daboll also had a clear problem with each other.  It was reported on even before Daboll started interviewing for coaching jobs.  It was also clear as day after the Giants game.  Now what their actual rift is, I don't know.  I can't say.  I would imagine they didn't like each other's philosophies though.

 

or they just didn't like each other.  What does McD know about running the football or an Offense in general?  If he was arguing with the #2/3 Offense in the league, then he is a moron.

[Dablitzkrieg]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

I'm no fan of Dorsey, but I think what we're seeing is the type of offensive approach that McDermott has ALWAYS wanted. Not that he doesn't want points, but he wants "balance." 

 

McD is a smart guy, a great defensive mind, but also an Alpha. This is HIS team. He has an idea of how to win. 

 

The difference with Daboll was that he did it his way, throwing 10-15 times in a row to start games and having guys flying all over the place. Allen was a bulldozer. The offense was cranking.

 

I think McDermott was uncomfortable with that approach and probably tried to get Daboll to change and that's the cause of the obvious tension between the 2 that got worse and worse until the end. At the end of the day, McDermott couldn't say too much because it was working and the team was winning and the players would have probably sided with Daboll if things blew up about it, so McDermott had to just go along with it.

 

Why else would McD have such hard feelings about Daboll? And he does, we don't need to argue the blatantly obvious. 

 

Obviously McD wants wins. Ultimately the HC gets the most credit, along with the QB. So it's a tense standoff. 

 

If it came down to a "him or me" argument McD might not have been the owner's (or superstar QBs) choice when the offense is scoring at will and Allen is becoming a superstar and the team is winning "because of offense" (which also must have driven him crazy on some level). 

 

It was also the defense that let the team down in 13 seconds. 

 

As a HC, I can see how he might see it as Daboll trying to one up him. I could see him feeling disrespected, regardless of the outcome of it. He's the HC and it's supposed to be his program, but the OC was a big personality who was getting all sorts of credit for doing the opposite of what McD wanted. 

 

What was McD going to do? Fire him? There would have been a mutiny. McD would have lost the locker room. 

 

But now, Dorsey is just a guy and McDermott can put his stamp on the offense. Now offensive guys are frustrated, unhappy, and want their offense back, regardless of who is calling the plays. 

 

That's the reason for the Diggs outbursts, Allen's malaise, and Florio's obnoxious "Jenga tower" articles after every Bills loss. 

 

My theory anyway as to what is going on with the offense. I'm not sure how much it matters who the OC is. 

 

 

 

 

Imagine not liking scoring 30 plus ppg.  Gotta be an absolute ass to be like that

[Since1981]

McClappy didn't like Daboll and Josh relationship.

Remember, Josh and Daboll talked about each other consistently in the media. That is not happening today with Dorksey. Consider that the OC is in his ear on EVERY PLAY. I still think that is what Diggs was saying CIN playoff game "Yo! what are you TWO doing!!"

Edited November 7, 2023 by Since1981

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, dpberr said:

My theory:  Both Sean McDermott and Brian Daboll are unlikeable coaches.  I don't think players like playing for either guy.  Daboll's shine just wore off very fast in NY because he's a hothead.

if this says anything, Gronk has gone on record to say he specifically would only unretire for one coach, and that’s Daboll.  When asked about Buffalo and McD, he gushed at the thought of his hometown team but said nothing about McD.

 

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/giants-brian-daboll-only-coach-who-can-get-rob-gronkowski-back-in-nfl

[Billever76]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

I don't buy this McD doesn't want a high power offense. Was he not in Carolina with Newton and one of the best offenses that year? Also, I've never once heard McDermott say he wants to be more conservative. I think if anything, McD is probably somewhat responsible for trying to make Josh more of a pocket passer, but I just don't buy that McDermott wants a jauron style offense. 

McDermott had 0 input on the panthers offense lol....just bc panthers had a great offense a few years while McDermott was on the staff means nothing to how McDermott prefers an offense be ran

[Scott7975]

29 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

or they just didn't like each other.  What does McD know about running the football or an Offense in general?  If he was arguing with the #2/3 Offense in the league, then he is a moron.

 

"However, McDermott and Dorsey have both admitted that the head coach is getting his fingers on the game plan on offense.

“I’m doing everything that I can as a head coach to make sure that things are the way that I want them and expect them to be across all three phases,” McDermott said via video conference.

Dorsey confirmed McDermott’s input, too. He even said he thinks McDermott’s vantage point as a defensive coordinator can be useful to him.

“He’s got a great mind for the game,” Dorsey said."

 

It's likely they didn't like each other because they didn't like each others philosophy.  I am not going to pretend to know exactly why, but I am pretty sure they both shower so I doubt it's that.  I am also pretty sure they don't care what each other eats for lunch so I doubt it's that. Pretty sure it's probably football related.

[phypon]

McDuffus has to go.  Had enough of that guy.  Just can't stand him at this point.  We need a complimentary fan base, so he needs to hit the road