Is Josh turning into a one read guy??

[Einstein]

Allen made the right read on this play. He had Hardy 1 on 1 with no safety help You take that 100 times out of 100. It is what we signed him for.

In addition to this, when Allen was releasing the ball, Davis had a defender shallow of him that has INT written all over it. He did not break out from this zone until the decision to throw was already made. 

 

Have you ever watched a football game and yelled at the QB to 'throw the ball!!!' because it was taking too long? That's what happens when you ignore the correct read, hoping that someone else would get open (like Gabe eventually did).

 

The tweeter does not understand this basic concept.
 

Joe Marino is just as bad at this. 

[DrDawkinstein]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'm going to push back slightly in the sense that you do need to take deep shots, and he had single coverage. When he threw it, he didn't know that the Bengals DB would keep up with Harty, but he did. Maybe he stumbles or bites or whatever, but in this case he didn't. Allen DOES need to throw the occasional bombs. The lack of success this year on those plays isn't a sign that he shouldn't do it given his success on these throws last season. 

Agreed. He made the right read. The receiver couldn't beat his man. 

 

Sure. Need to take some deep shots to keep the Defense honest. But bad timing and bad planning.

 

And I'm also convinced, as we saw in the playoff game as well, the Bengals/Anarumo know EXACTLY the type of looks they need to show the Bills in order to bait Josh into throwing the low percentage deep ball.

 

Miami did it to us in the playoff game, and we happened to connect on a few and they died by it.

 

We didnt get so lucky in the Bengals game.

 

Not the right time for those plays. We were only down by 7. Our Defense just held the Bengals to a punt to even the drives. Just methodically move the ball down the field.

 

23 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Allen is capable of going through his reads.

 

I think how he plays at times, where he looks and his choices, are a mystery to everyone outside the Bills who are covering football because it's NOT that he hasn't shown himself capable of progressing through his reads and hitting the open guy at times.

 

Others have pointed out that Allen threw the pick to Gabe on the next play, so it's not like he "lost all faith in Gabe and doesn't look his way anymore".

 

 

If you're correct that Josh thought the "game was almost over" down 14-7 in the 2nd Q, then he has the mental toughness of a loofah and should retire to play golf.  I'm not saying that's what Josh was actually thinking, but I'm not kidding.  Championship-winning QB don't think like that.

 

Look, successful offensive coordinators stretch the field horizontally and vertically.  You can't blame it on Dorsey for "giving him those plays" that do what an OC is supposed to do.  Were there open players and plays to be had?  There were.  Then it's on Josh for not taking advantage of them.

 

Air Raid is damned straight that Josh has warts right now, and somebody better get the liquid nitrogen and burn a few of them off.

 

13 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

At this point of the game it was only Bills’ 3rd possession. Way too early for the game to be almost over if that’s what Allen was really thinking. His tendency is always to take the deep shot. On a first down like this play he’s going to do that when the opportunity presents itself. There’s no problem with this decision. The mistake was the very next play that you eluded to. Those mistakes are game killers. Allen should be a savvy veteran at this point and not get baited like a rookie qb on that play. That was disappointing. 

 

I was mostly being facetious about Josh thinking the game was over. But WTF. No other reason to throw back-to-back low percentage throws because the D is baiting you. And if that Davis throw wasnt picked and just dropped, I'd bet good money we would have gone deep again on 3rd down, likely resulting in a sack.

 

The old Dorsey Classic from most of last year.

 

The problem here is that previously, Dabol would be the one to calm Josh down and get those warts frozen. But now, Dorsey is there and telling Josh to grow more warts.

[Bobby Hooks]

People are starting to pile on Josh. Not just the fans but analysts, etc. too. Not saying it’s not warranted in some respects but it’s a far cry from the love fest he’s received the last five years. He seems to be in a weird headspace with the low positive or whatever it is stuff he’s trying out. 
 

We already know he’s an emotional guy on account of how amped we’ve seen him get in the past. I’m hoping he keeps that mindset of being able to take criticism and work on himself and doesn’t let all of it affect him negatively. Wether it’s fair or not, the team goes as Josh goes, and for the most part Bills fans love him. My worry is that one day enough will be enough and he goes the Beasley route of us vs. them (Bills fans included in the them). I’d hate that if we ever did win it all it would be more in spite of us than for us. 
 

Again, I completely understand that in many cases it’s warranted, but he’s still young and we have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes with coaches, players, etc. I know right now it’s hard to be grateful and supportive, but the kid has given this team something we haven’t had in decades and he’s having a rough patch. This is a down year, many excuses to go around. But you know, no one feels it more than him. I believe he can right the ship, just might not be this season. 
 

 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Guys who can really get open know how to stem off and create separation while the ball is in the air

 

Chase did it very nicely on the ball Burrow underthrew a bit

You'll get no argument from me about the talent issue!

[34-78-83]

I’ve watched hundreds of hours of Josh’s all 22 reviews since like 2019 and he definitely is not a 1 read qb. To assume he is is kinda outlandish considering how easy it is to find. It’s blatantly obvious that he goes through progressions on plays that are not rpo’s or sight reads ( like the play to Harty in the last game) and you can literally watch his head move from 1 to 2 to 3 etc.

 

 These are the types of speculations that create false narratives about a guy.

[BuffaloBillyG]

53 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

This video right here shows me that Josh is sticking with one play and going with it. Davis was wide open for a huge gain. Maybe JA has lost all faith in Gabe and doesn't even look his way anymore. Idk 🤷‍♂️ 

 

And why is Deonte Harty even on this team?? Him and Sherfield. Nice moves Beane.

 

 

This is one thing I hate about the "Twitter OCs" that do game review. If the play doesn't work he's criticized either way.

 

So, he should have bypassed single coverage deep in this situation to hit the small ball play. If he tosses it to Gabe here the review would like have been "yeah he picked up 7, but he had Harty single coverage deep and if he hits it, that's 6. Gotta take a chance when it's there. Bad Josh."

 

Good read. Bad pass.

 

[Brand J]

6 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Could have been a miscommunication too - looks like harty heads inside (where there is space) and allen threw it vertical right around the same time.  But either way, the result is the same, the pass was uncatchable.  

You’d hope every single long bomb pass would veer towards the middle of the field if it’s open, rather than the sideline, so if Harty’s route was designed to go sideline but he had green grass on his left shoulder, the players have to be on the same page and adjust to that in real time. I’d expect the QB to go MoF every time if it’s open and if a receiver stays sideline that’s on the receiver. I put this pass on Allen either way. 
 

@dave mcbride Puts this on Harty, he wants to see 1 to 2 yards of separation, but 808 is right, a lot of separation is created while the ball is in the air. There’s a saying in football, “If I’m even, I’m leaving” this was one of those cases. A better ball produces a better result.

[Einstein]

Allen reads Gabe (high/low read) first on this play. He has coverage both in front of him and behind him.

 

Image below:



Allen wisely moves off of Davis, and onto the 1 on 1 Hardy has, with no safety help .This is 

This is the correct read.

When Allen makes his decision to throw to Hardy, Gabe Davis still has a shallow defender just waiting to intercept.



Allen made the right read. 

.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Einstein

[Royale with Cheese]

Allen made the right read, Harty is our speed guy 1 on 1.

 

Either the throw was bad or the route wasn't ran at the spot it needed to be.

[Cray51]

Regarding Allen not hitting intermediate/deep throws, I really wonder if his shoulder is limited his ability to put touch on the ball right now.  You can almost see a change in how he is trying to get the ball out when his is changing arm angle to loft a pass over.  It's why I think this INT Saturday night was an underthrow.  

[MJS]

That would be better. He doesn't take his first read if it would mean pulling the trigger quickly.

[Beast]

OK, so he passed ip on a 8 yard gain for what he felt he may be able to get a huge gain in a 1 on 1 situation.

 

I have no issue with that. This team needs some chunk plays. 

[Billever76]

Why is it so hard to believe that Allen is in a foreign offense that is 100% aligned to the polar opposite of what Allen's skill sets are? We have essentially taken everything allen is good at and scraped it and installed an offense that asks allen to relearn his entire style of play to fit what our stubborn controlling conservative HC envisions....mcd wants an offense designed for a player like Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer 😆 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s done the one read thing all year and it’s worried me. I don’t know what it is. This was a play I talked about earlier vs NE. Great design. How is this not a TD?

 

 

 

 

I actually think this is a good example of what Erik Turner broke down the other day... In Dorsey's offense the route timing doesn't match up with the progressions. Dorsey just calls individual coverage beaters, there's no fluidity to anything. Allen is reading the defense pre-snap and if the coverage is different than anticipated or the read is taken away, he has to go all the way back to the other side of the field. In this case and a lot of cases the routes on the other side of the field are not timed correctly to make this full field progression matter. By the time he gets back to Knox it's too late.

 

Ideally in a crisp offense read 1 should take your eyes to read 2 should take your eyes to read 3. After watching the Cover1 video on the Bengals game I've become convinced that this issue is why our offense looks so disjointed for long periods of time. The routes being called have no cohesiveness. Players aren't being schemed open.

 

Here's the video I'm referencing:

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by HappyDays

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

That’s been a knock on Josh since coming out of college.  He’s definitely been more effective in his career when he doesn’t do this, but it’s a tendency of his that hurts the offense’s effectiveness.

 

 a tendency that a QB coach or OC should be able to get out of him.  But nope, not here.  Just clapp along with the HC.  

[jaab1028]

Madden curse kids,it's the only logical assumption I could make in regards to Josh,lol

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, Bubba Gump said:

This video right here shows me that Josh is sticking with one play and going with it. Davis was wide open for a huge gain. Maybe JA has lost all faith in Gabe and doesn't even look his way anymore. Idk 🤷‍♂️ 

 

And why is Deonte Harty even on this team?? Him and Sherfield. Nice moves Beane.

 

 

He’s done this his whole career. Brought it up a bunch. Was pretty much told I don’t know what I’m talking about. 

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I actually think this is a good example of what Erik Turner broke down the other day... In Dorsey's offense the route timing doesn't match up with the progressions. Dorsey just calls individual coverage beaters, there's no fluidity to anything. Allen is reading the defense pre-snap and if the coverage is different than anticipated or the read is taken away, he has to go all the way back to the other side of the field. In this case and a lot of cases the routes on the other side of the field are not timed correctly to make this full field progression matter. By the time he gets back to Knox it's too late.

 

Ideally in a crisp offense read 1 should take your eyes to read 2 should take your eyes to read 3. After watching the Cover1 video on the Bengals game I've become convinced that this issue is why our offense looks do disjointed for long periods of time. The routes being called have no cohesiveness. Players aren't being schemed open.

 

Here's the video I'm referencing:

 

 

 

I don’t remember who it was exactly(maybe Greg Cosell on WGR) but they said pretty much the same thing last season. The reads are all over the place and nothing really meshes. It’s bad that it’s still happening now. 

[34-78-83]

Some choose to overlook the explanations, guidance and proof (with pictures even) provided right here in this very thread that refute the concern of the OP, and still post nonsense right after, as if those posts and proof don't exist. Gotta love it! (not really)

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Pretty sure @HoofHeartedcan confirm this is literally an example of making multiple (2) reads deep/shallow based on safety coming down on crosser or not

 

I mean we have seen Allen hit this throw so many times over his career it's ridiculous to say he doesn't see it, it's been in the playbook for 5 years now 

This specific play is Allen just taking the 1v1 matchup. This is what I've tried to get across earlier in the year - if Allen likes the backside 1v1 matchup he's going to take it regardless of the three man concept. Saw this a lot this game on the backside of 3x1.

[strive_for_five_guy]

17 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

 a tendency that a QB coach or OC should be able to get out of him.  But nope, not here.  Just clapp along with the HC.  

Or at least align the offensive playing calling and scheme to Josh’s strengths.  That’s where Daboll may have been a great fit for Josh, b/c he knew how to better cover up Josh’s weaknesses.  When even Cris Collinsworth is salivating at the Bills spreading out their offense and the Bills offense is moving effectively, that should be a sign of the direction their offense needs to go with Josh.  You start a drive with a couple QB designed runs, it’s almost like it calms Josh down and it puts the opposing defense on notice.