Hines injury...

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Harty was signed at 2yr 5M per year to be the starting slot. That's why Beane loosened his purse strings.

 

For whatever reason, perhaps moving to a 12 which takes a receiver off the field or the rise of shakir, he is not getting alot of opportunities. Could be dorseys play calling too.

 

Clearly at this point he's a FA bust.

 

Sherfield was brought in to be a backup to Diggs or Davis. Sherfield hasn't been bad, just not alot of opportunities as Davis and Diggs rarely come off the field.

 

As far as Hines, losing his explosion on KR has hurt. 

 

But he would most likely be a backup to Cook at this point.

 

Bills still needed a power RB for short yardage situations on 3rd or 4th down hence the Murray or Fournette signings.

 

It would be nice to line up Murray on 4th and short running behind Gilliam but strangely the bills continue to run shotgun on short yardage situations 

See if he was signed to start at the slot, I think that’s a total whiff.

 

Harty is a gadget guy. That’s where he made his name. 
 

Sure he had one year with 500 yards, but he was the Saints #2 WR in targets with a horrific group. Somebody has to catch the ball. 
 

the next year was cut short due to injury, but he was immediately relegated to a nothing role regardless. 4 games, two targets. 
 

Who were we bidding against for a guy like that? Furthermore, what was his envisioned role with Hines healthy and cemented at return duties? 
 

Did we really pay that for a guy with one statistically mediocre season to be a starter? To be the backup return man? 
 

Neither makes sense. Total gaffe.

[Mikie2times]

[eSJayDee]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I don’t understand why these athletes don’t take out gigantic insurance policies for stuff like this.

 

just seems prudent.

Probably cuz they're gigantic expensive.  I used to work in an industry (Commodity Trading Advisor) where we're potentially liable for substantial amounts of $.  We looked into insurance & it was highly imprudent given the probability of a liability.  How often does something like this happen?  Very seldom.  Also, good luck getting a payout.  You think insurance companies will just hand out a 6 or 7 figure amount w/o some legal fight to try to weasel out of it.

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I don’t understand why these athletes don’t take out gigantic insurance policies for stuff like this.

 

just seems prudent.

Probably cuz they're gigantic expensive.  I used to work in an industry (Commodity Trading Advisor) where we're potentially liable for substantial amounts of $.  We looked into insurance & it was highly imprudent given the probability of a liability.  How often does something like this happen?  Very seldom.  Also, good luck getting a payout.  You think insurance companies will just hand out a 6 or 7 figure amount w/o some legal fight to try to weasel out of it.

[billsfan89]

Harty has been a solid punt returner but there is virtually no kickoff return game. I think Hines would have been an upgrade to both return games maybe 1-2 big ST plays would have helped in the Broncos or Pats losses? As far as using Hines as a third-down back on offense I don't think they really knew how to use him effectively. 

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, eSJayDee said:

Probably cuz they're gigantic expensive.  I used to work in an industry (Commodity Trading Advisor) where we're potentially liable for substantial amounts of $.  We looked into insurance & it was highly imprudent given the probability of a liability.  How often does something like this happen?  Very seldom.  Also, good luck getting a payout.  You think insurance companies will just hand out a 6 or 7 figure amount w/o some legal fight to try to weasel out of it.

Probably cuz they're gigantic expensive.  I used to work in an industry (Commodity Trading Advisor) where we're potentially liable for substantial amounts of $.  We looked into insurance & it was highly imprudent given the probability of a liability.  How often does something like this happen?  Very seldom.  Also, good luck getting a payout.  You think insurance companies will just hand out a 6 or 7 figure amount w/o some legal fight to try to weasel out of it.

Are they more expensive that losing $5M of guaranteed income?

[eSJayDee]

39 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Are they more expensive that losing $5M of guaranteed income?

I doubt it.  But... that income is not entirely guaranteed.  Also, he does still have to work for it.  Further, one could argue the $ isn't really "lost", merely delayed, or at least this is partially the case.  ie he chooses to work 4 more yrs.  Does it really matter if it's '23-'26 or '24 thru '27?

As for what I expect the "math" to be like (this is just a hypothetical I'm basically pulling out my butt, IDK real numbers) - imagine you're a "regular" wage earning & you're presented w/ a "tenuous" opportunity to earn $1m/yr for "a few yrs".  That $1m is ~$600k after taxes.  How anxious would you be to pay $100-$200k (presumably not tax deductible) to insure said income, knowing that a) only a handful of the ~2000 players/yr end up missing out on a similar opportunity due to circumstances you want to insure against and b) collecting said payout in the event it's warranted, will possibly (likely?) involve a (costly) legal battle w/ no actual assurances that you'll indeed collect.

Not saying no one insures themselves for such circumstances, but I suspect it's not so dumb (& likely prudent) to actually make a decision NOT to insure.

[H2o]

9 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

These threads make me laugh, especially since we ran McKittrick outta town on a rail. We're paying three guys instead of one, and for less production.  McBeane ***** up big time on these guys. 

McNugget has a grand total of 11 catches for 82 yards on a WR depleted team. He has 4 KO returns averaging 25 yds a pop and 18 PR averaging 9 yds a pop. Deonte Harty's contract is an easy out next year at $1.3M in dead money. Hines can be cut for $500K. Oh no! $2M in dead money! Ahhhhhhhh! Nothing about this situation is Beane messing anything up "big time" at all. Yeah, it's really quite the opposite. 

[BigAl2526]

We sure aren't getting much from Harty.

[Beck Water]

On 11/6/2023 at 2:20 PM, boyst said:

McKenzie had some tools we could use. We just tried to use them too often.

 

His comments since leaving have been interesting. Especially last year and the play calls/routes. 

 

I haven't been paying attention, other than to note he doesn't get many snaps with the Colts.

 

What has McKenzie said?

 

1 hour ago, BigAl2526 said:

We sure aren't getting much from Harty.

 

That's a big puzzle to me.  We signed him because, according to Beane, he was supposed to be an upgrade on McKenzie - similar speed but better, smoother routes and better ability to track the ball downfield. 

 

Where's he been?

Edited November 23, 2023 by Beck Water

[boyst]

7 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I haven't been paying attention, other than to note he doesn't get many snaps with the Colts.

 

What has McKenzie said?

 

 

That's a big puzzle to me.  We signed him because, according to Beane, he was supposed to be an upgrade on McKenzie - similar speed but better, smoother routes and better ability to track the ball downfield. 

 

Where's he been?

Don't let me forget this. It's going to be a busy day. I'll try to find it, but essentially talking about how he was used in Buffalo play calling. It was just an interesting take but nothing new at this point. But I know you like your sources, let me go run this stupid turkey trot. I'll find it later!

[EasternOHBillsFan]

On 11/22/2023 at 8:25 AM, Irv said:

Hines should be fired. 

 

No, I don't think so.

[Heathcliff]

11 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

We sure aren't getting much from Harty.

No fumbles is an upgrade over McKenzie 

[ColoradoBills]

Hines has a cap hit of $940k this year and next year he has $500k dead cap hit.  He won't be on the team and Beane gets $5M back.

Harty has a $1.375M dead cap hit next year and Beane frees up $4M.

 

Both won't be on the team next season and it frees up $9M.

Bills are $42M in the hole to start next year and the $9M of cap is mandatory.

 

Not great signings at all, but its cost is not extremely bad.

[Mr. WEO]

Hines had one notable game. 
 

Stop

[ngbills]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:11 AM, Solomon Grundy said:

Ty Johnson returned kicks for the Jets and was pretty good at it

Check the stats. He returned like 3 kicks. Thats not "he returned kicks for the Jets". 

[Beck Water]

On 11/23/2023 at 6:08 AM, boyst said:

Don't let me forget this. It's going to be a busy day. I'll try to find it, but essentially talking about how he was used in Buffalo play calling. It was just an interesting take but nothing new at this point. But I know you like your sources, let me go run this stupid turkey trot. I'll find it later!

 

Thanks, I’m just curious.  I thought he was a guy who usually put it straight, maybe too straight for the team, so just curious

 

How was your trot?

[Beck Water]

On 11/23/2023 at 10:18 AM, ColoradoBills said:

Hines has a cap hit of $940k this year and next year he has $500k dead cap hit.  He won't be on the team and Beane gets $5M back.

Harty has a $1.375M dead cap hit next year and Beane frees up $4M.

 

Both won't be on the team next season and it frees up $9M.

Bills are $42M in the hole to start next year and the $9M of cap is mandatory.

 

Not great signings at all, but its cost is not extremely bad.

 

So a couple of points here.  Hines was originally owned like $3.5M this season.   The $940k was a negotiated settlement - the Bills didn’t owe him anything and could theoretically have tried to get his signing bonus returned, while Hines could have filed a grievance for his full salary.  We don’t know the terms of the negotiation, but Hines and Beane have both said they want him on the team next season, and the team committing to carrying him next season may have been part of the negotiation.

 

I don’t think people who beef about these two signings are necessarily looking at next season.  The Bills were operating under a very tight cap budget this season, we’re told.  The thing is, going into the season we had $7.250M cap tied up in Harty and Hines.

 

***** happens we get it as far as Hines is concerned, but still, that’s like $6M cap that could have gone towards a real difference-making offensive playmaker.

 

 

[boyst]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Thanks, I’m just curious.  I thought he was a guy who usually put it straight, maybe too straight for the team, so just curious

 

How was your trot?

I finished over 30 minutes for the first time ever. But pushed a stroller and did a bottle break and several snack breaks.  🤣

 

We didn't use our BOB, we used our other one with a better snack tray. That actually made a difference!

 

I need to keep looking for it. I don't remember all of it but he said there were a lot of plays, his teammates were very competitive, and the playbook was complex. Nothing necessarily bad but the way he put it mattered. It was some time back last spring heading into spring camp.  It may have been in a video vlog interview thing. It's driving me nuts. 

[chongli]

These right here are why we need Nyheim Hines back: