Letting Josh coach himself was the incorrect decision

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Allen is doing all that. Watch the JT O'Sullivan and/or Cover1 break down videos from the Tampa game. He is capable, at times, of making all those pre-snap reads, changing things around, and then finding the right guy in the progression.

 

They arent just lining up and running a set play that is being thrown to Kincaid no matter what.

 

I think Allen's "running the plays that are called" statement is more alluding to the fact that Dorsey isnt scheming anyone open, like Reid does with Kelce in KC.

 

Even if Allen makes ALL the reads and calls and changes, the opposing Defense is ready for the dumb play and scheme Dorsey just called.

 

 

 

It's amazing this has to be said but you did so perfectly. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

I agree, but that's not going to happen. McDermott and Beane are a package deal, so they both go. And then Terry Pegula has to hire another HC. This is the man who didn't let Rex Ryan out of the building and hired Ralph F-ing Krueger.

 

If McD and Beane are truly a package deal in Pegula's mind then we are absolutely screwed as a franchise.

 

Pegula needs to fire the coaching staff and work with Beane and the FO on finding a new HC.

 

No need to throw the Beaner out with the bath water.

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If McD and Beane are truly a package deal in Pegula's mind then we are absolutely screwed as a franchise.

 

Pegula needs to fire the coaching staff and work with Beane and the FO on finding a new HC.

 

No need to throw the Beaner out with the bath water.

Not in Pegula's mind, in their minds. McDermott hired Beane, so I'm not sure that he has the authority to fire him.

[TheFunPolice]

I like McDermott and think he's a great defensive mind. 

 

That said, it's time for people to feel a bit uncomfortable. That's how you grow. 

 

Time for an OC that isn't someone's "buddy" but has real credentials on offense. Daboll can be a real you know what, he's not some loveable teddy bear. Daboll was the boss of the offense. Dorsey seems like a colleague. 

 

 

[I'm Spartacus]

I think Beane is an excellent GM. I've turned sour on McDermott though. He's just not cutting it. Can't see Beane firing McDermott because of the buddy buddy relationship, but if he does it would be the biggest decision of his career. Pegula has no clue as to the best move to make or not make.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not in Pegula's mind, in their minds. McDermott hired Beane, so I'm not sure that he has the authority to fire him.

Beane is GM. He needs to hold rank over McDermott just as Dorsey needs to hold rank over Josh, even though Josh pushed for him to get the job.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

It's funny everyone killed Daboll for how he used Josh.  All the called QB runs and stuff, can't risk the franchise!  I think we all see now that without that dimension Josh is pretty ordinary, or at the very least- wildly inconsistent.  

He's literally at the top of the league in all QB production and efficiency metrics in the very year he runs least

[Prospector]

Let's go full blown Patriots, Josh McDaniels as OC and Bellicheat as DC.

[Saint Doug]

Dorsey needs to go. Get someone from the Shanahan tree. 

[TheFunPolice]

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Beane is GM. He needs to hold rank over McDermott just as Dorsey needs to hold rank over Josh, even though Josh pushed for him to get the job.

 

This is one of the problems, IMO.

 

Everyone, including Beane, works for McDermott. That's not exactly unheard of, but usually it's a coach who has proven himself first. 

 

Then Dorsey works for Allen, basically. Of course not "officially." 

 

Remember when Allen commented (a few years back) that if he didn't love it they aren't running it? Yeah, well it seemed like Daboll's response was that he'll take it under advisement. Now run the damn play. 

 

I feel like Dorsey's response would be "yes sir!" 

 

The hierarchy is muddled. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by TheFunPolice

[Virgil]

I agree with this.  Other franchises have done this, but with much more seasoned Vets who have reached their learning potential and solidified their playing identity.  Josh clearly isn't there yet.  

 

So I get the idea, just the wrong application at the time

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

You can see times when he doesn't read the whole field. 

You see that with every QB at times

[White Linen]

3 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

This is one of the problems, IMO.

 

Everyone, including Beane, works for McDermott. That's not exactly unheard of, but usually it's a coach who has proven himself first. 

 

Then Dorsey works for Allen, basically. Of course not "officially." 

 

Remember when Allen commented (a few years back) that if he didn't love it they aren't running it? Yeah, well it seemed like Daboll's response was that he'll take it under advisement. Now run the damn play. 

 

I feel like Dorsey's response would be "yes sir!" 

 

The hierarchy is muddled. 

 

I'm almost positive this isn't true.  I thought I saw an organizational chart showing McD and Beane at the same level, reporting up.  Beane over player personnel, scouting  etc and McDermott over all the coaches and players.

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

It's funny everyone killed Daboll for how he used Josh.  All the called QB runs and stuff, can't risk the franchise!  I think we all see now that without that dimension Josh is pretty ordinary, or at the very least- wildly inconsistent.  

there’s a middle ground where he can run but not lower his shoulder every single time. Mahomes does it very well, for instance. I’d be all for a lot more runs and a lot more trips to the sideline or sliding 

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Not in Pegula's mind, in their minds. McDermott hired Beane, so I'm not sure that he has the authority to fire him.

 

Both separately answer directly to Pegula. Terry can absolutely fire one but not the other. Neither can fire each other.

 

But Terry should keep Beane and fire McD.

[Bruffalo]

2 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

Players given up on the coaching

 

And it didn't just happen this week.

There's probably some truth to this, and occasionally you see some shade thrown their way (ala McKenzie's comments after leaving). 

 

I don't think the offense has much faith in Dorsey at this point. 

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

14 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Beane is GM. He needs to hold rank over McDermott just as Dorsey needs to hold rank over Josh, even though Josh pushed for him to get the job.

 

11 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

This is one of the problems, IMO.

 

Everyone, including Beane, works for McDermott. That's not exactly unheard of, but usually it's a coach who has proven himself first. 

 

Then Dorsey works for Allen, basically. Of course not "officially." 

 

Remember when Allen commented (a few years back) that if he didn't love it they aren't running it? Yeah, well it seemed like Daboll's response was that he'll take it under advisement. Now run the damn play. 

 

I feel like Dorsey's response would be "yes sir!" 

 

The hierarchy is muddled. 

 

In the Pegula hierarchy, both McDermott and Beane have their own direct line to Terry. Beane does not work for McD. And the HC does not work for the GM.

 

I'm not a fan of that flat org style, but it's what we have and will likely have as long as Terry owns the team.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

 

 

In the Pegula hierarchy, both McDermott and Beane have their own direct line to Terry. Beane does not work for McD. And the HC does not work for the GM.

 

I'm not a fan of that flat org style, but it's what we have and will likely have as long as Terry owns the team.

 

 

So basically, it’s Terry decision whether to axe McDermott and Beane will be left out of it. Considering McDermott encouraged the hire of Beane, that makes sense.

[pocoboy]

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

It's funny everyone killed Daboll for how he used Josh.  All the called QB runs and stuff, can't risk the franchise!  I think we all see now that without that dimension Josh is pretty ordinary, or at the very least- wildly inconsistent.  

 

Do you understand leverage? You don't need to run Josh in blowouts. You don't need to run Josh when you're making headway without it. But hell, in that game yesterday, you have him go for a couple of 10 yard pops in the 1st Quarter, and the defense has to respect it. Even a split second hesitation can lead to points.

 

So yes, there can absolutely be logic that criticized some reckless runs under Daboll while STILL emphasizing how much more difficult they've made it by removing almost all threat of the QB draw.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

So basically, it’s Terry decision whether to axe McDermott and Beane will be left out of it. Considering McDermott encouraged the hire of Beane, that makes sense.

 

Yes, exactly. The decision to fire is all Terry. And then up to him on how much he involves the survivors in the new HC hire. He could change the org structure at the time of a new hire, but I doubt he will. He likes it like this.