Letting Josh coach himself was the incorrect decision

[Sharky7337]

This really boils down the whole thing.

 

Let Josh help choose the OC( he should give some feedback sure, but i think he wasn't ready for this yet), and then watch him slowly degrade from lack of good coaching is what we are seeing here.

 

Is that a fireable offense for McDermott and Beane? I don't know.

 

I think that decision has played out for 1.5 years and it isn't getting better.

 

Maybe having a Daboll in your face, fired up, helped Josh.

 

Its criminal with the talent on the team to be in line with the Jets, Steelers, Texans? all doing more with way way less. 

 

Im pretty sure Mike Tomlin's jock strap could do more with this, and he's not even an offensive coach.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Sharky7337

[DrDawkinstein]

I dont think this specific decision is fireable in itself. But McD and Dorsey should definitely be on the hotseat and accountable for their work.

 

To me, it wasnt that Dabol "fired him up", but rather the opposite. When Josh started spinning, Dabol would get him under control and focused. Dorsey is unable to do that because Dorsey himself is spinning and unfocused.

[Mango]

I think McD has been a decent CEO. An above average coach who more often than not would be an upgrade. 
 

But coaches run their course sometimes. He’s a crucial part of this team getting to where they are. 
 

I thought he might be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this year. But after last night and his post game. He’s toast here. 
 

Time for everybody to move on at the end of the year.

[Coach Tuesday]

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

I think McD has been a decent CEO. An above average coach who more often than not would be an upgrade. 
 

But coaches run their course sometimes. He’s a crucial part of this team getting to where they are. 
 

I thought he might be able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this year. But after last night and his post game. He’s toast here. 
 

Time for everybody to move on at the end of the year.

I agree, but that's not going to happen. McDermott and Beane are a package deal, so they both go. And then Terry Pegula has to hire another HC. This is the man who didn't let Rex Ryan out of the building and hired Ralph F-ing Krueger.

[Heavy Kevi]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

 

Players given up on the coaching

 

And it didn't just happen this week.

[Beast]

Time is of the essence. The Bills brain trust needs to figure this out in a hurry. Josh doesn’t have a shelf life that is eternal. The clock is ticking.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Beast

[Andrew Son]

It's funny everyone killed Daboll for how he used Josh.  All the called QB runs and stuff, can't risk the franchise!  I think we all see now that without that dimension Josh is pretty ordinary, or at the very least- wildly inconsistent.  

[Roundybout]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

Dorsey is a bad, bad offensive coordinator. It’s just that simple. Josh wanting him as OC means nothing really with regards to scheme. He picked him because he was familiar with Daboll’s system and the team. 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

I agree, but that's not going to happen. McDermott and Beane are a package deal, so they both go. And then Terry Pegula has to hire another HC. This is the man who didn't let Rex Ryan out of the building and hired Ralph F-ing Krueger.

I agree. 
 

There is a decent part of me that says “Run it back. This is still so much better than what this guy did to the Sabres”. It can certainly get worse. 
 

I think (hope?) there’s a chance that Beane may be retained. I actually don’t love Beane but I hate what the alternative could be. 

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh saying post game that he’s “just running the plays that were called” is mind-blowing to me.  This is HIS offense.  HIS offensive coordinator.  He’s in Year Six of this offense basically.  Is he not part of the weekly install?  Wtf is going on there?

There’s some credence to the “Dorsey picks plays out of a hat” narrative. 

But also, I think this sort of eludes to another point I’ve made. (Convenient I know). Allen is a physiological monster who isn’t necessarily processing the game at the speed of other QB’s. Allen is just running the play that’s called. But the play call has different reads and checks on who the primary pre-snap depending on the defense. Then those reads can change in an instant post snap. Then there is the read progression. 
 

I think “running the plays that are called” is likely a good summary of my frustration at times. Overlooking the open man for the “play call”. 
 

He is so wildly talented I think he can get away with it. But it can also make life difficult. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Mango

[PBF81]

25 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

Is that a fireable offense for McDermott and Beane? I don't know.

 

I think that decision has played out for 1.5 years and it isn't getting better.

 

Its criminal with the talent on the team to be in line with the Jets, Steelers, Texans? all doing more with way way less. 

 

Im pretty sure Mike Tomlin's jock strap could do more with this, and he's not even an offensive coach.

 

Your question seems to answer itself.  

 

We have a head coach that admittedly has no idea what's wrong much less how to correct it.  

 

This, while we have the best QB in franchise history rotting away, one of the top few QBs in the league, and a generational talent.  

 

The tragedy is that he's actually regressing.  

 

If the answer to the question isn't obvious by now, I'm not sure that it ever will be until the media narrative forces popular opinion to cascade.  

 

 

15 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

Players given up on the coaching

 

And it didn't just happen this week.

 

There's definitely very little coaching leadership evident.  

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by PBF81

[White Linen]

16 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

It's funny everyone killed Daboll for how he used Josh.  All the called QB runs and stuff, can't risk the franchise!  I think we all see now that without that dimension Josh is pretty ordinary, or at the very least- wildly inconsistent.  

 

... Or at the very least - at the top of every statistical category measuring quarterbacks. 

[DrDawkinstein]

43 minutes ago, Mango said:

There’s some credence to the “Dorsey picks plays out of a hat” narrative. 

But also, I think this sort of eludes to another point I’ve made. (Convenient I know). Allen is a physiological monster who isn’t necessarily processing the game at the speed of other QB’s. Allen is just running the play that’s called. But the play call has different reads and checks on who the primary pre-snap depending on the defense. Then those reads can change in an instant post snap. Then there is the read progression. 
 

I think “running the plays that are called” is likely a good summary of my frustration at times. Overlooking the open man for the “play call”. 
 

He is so wildly talented I think he can get away with it. But it can also make life difficult. 

 

Allen is doing all that. Watch the JT O'Sullivan and/or Cover1 break down videos from the Tampa game. He is capable, at times, of making all those pre-snap reads, changing things around, and then finding the right guy in the progression.

 

They arent just lining up and running a set play that is being thrown to Kincaid no matter what.

 

I think Allen's "running the plays that are called" statement is more alluding to the fact that Dorsey isnt scheming anyone open, like Reid does with Kelce in KC.

 

Even if Allen makes ALL the reads and calls and changes, the opposing Defense is ready for the dumb play and scheme Dorsey just called.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Dorsey is a bad, bad offensive coordinator. It’s just that simple. Josh wanting him as OC means nothing really with regards to scheme. He picked him because he was familiar with Daboll’s system and the team. 

 

Makes one wonder who's actually in charge.

 

The old adage, "it starts at the top" comes to mind.  

 

Such lack of leadership surrounding the single most important and highest paid part of the team is reprehensible.  

 

 

[Mango]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Allen is doing all that. Watch the JT O'Sullivan and/or Cover1 break down videos from the Tampa game. He is capable, at times, of making all those pre-snap reads, changing things around, and then finding the right guy in the progression.

 

They arent just lining up and running a set play that is being thrown to Kincaid no matter what.

 

I think Allen's "running the plays that are called" statement is more eluding to the fact that Dorsey isnt scheming anyone open, like Reid does with Kelce in KC.

 

Even if Allen makes ALL the reads and calls and changes, the opposing Defense is ready for the dumb play and scheme Dorsey just called.

I think you nailed it with “he is capable, at times”. Josh isn’t a dud. He’s a good QB. But I don’t think it’s a strength.

 

It’s disingenuous to say that even if Josh does everything right it still the playcall. That’s just silly. We’ve seen a few games this year (and others) where Josh’s vision has been a primary concern. Not a whole lot different than any other unit or personnel group. 
 

I think Josh excels when things break down because his athleticism takes over and supersedes play design. Plays break down for a million reasons. Some personnel and some coaching related. 
 

We’ve heard other teams over the years say stuff along the lines of “make Josh play QB” or the like. I think Josh is so talented sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn’t. But what almost never works for teams is letting Josh let his physiology take over. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

I think you nailed it with “he is capable, at times”. Josh isn’t a dud. He’s a good QB. But I don’t think it’s a strength.

 

It’s disingenuous to say that even if Josh does everything right it still the playcall. That’s just silly. We’ve seen a few games this year (and others) where Josh’s vision has been a primary concern. Not a whole lot different than any other unit or personnel group. 
 

I think Josh excels when things break down because his athleticism takes over and supersedes play design. Plays break down for a million reasons. Some personnel and some coaching related. 
 

We’ve heard other teams over the years say stuff along the lines of “make Josh play QB” or the like. I think Josh is so talented sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn’t. But what almost never works for teams is letting Josh let his physiology take over. 

You can see times when he doesn't read the whole field. 

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

I think you nailed it with “he is capable, at times”. Josh isn’t a dud. He’s a good QB. But I don’t think it’s a strength.

 

It’s disingenuous to say that even if Josh does everything right it still the playcall. That’s just silly. We’ve seen a few games this year (and others) where Josh’s vision has been a primary concern. Not a whole lot different than any other unit or personnel group. 
 

I think Josh excels when things break down because his athleticism takes over and supersedes play design. Plays break down for a million reasons. Some personnel and some coaching related. 
 

We’ve heard other teams over the years say stuff along the lines of “make Josh play QB” or the like. I think Josh is so talented sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn’t. But what almost never works for teams is letting Josh let his physiology take over. 

 

Oh, I am in no way relieving Josh of any responsibility. He needs to do better as well. Especially in not getting baited into bad decisions because he wants to play hero ball when all we need to do is move the chains with 6 yard chunks.

[Bangarang]

This is so dumb. Obviously if you’re going to ask your franchise QB for his opinion. Dorsey was a logical decision. 

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Dorsey is a bad, bad offensive coordinator. It’s just that simple. Josh wanting him as OC means nothing really with regards to scheme. He picked him because he was familiar with Daboll’s system and the team. 

Allen also picked him because Dorsey is his buddy and wouldn’t hold him to account. Allen is not a self starter type of personality. He needs to be pushed. Dorsey isn’t going to do that. Allen has all the physical gifts for the position but is severely lacking with the mental aspects of it. He needs someone that can help with that and Dorsey isn’t it.