Joe Marino

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You got downvoted but you are correct.  The D made stops for most of the game.  The Bengals only scored 3 points the entire second half while our O did nothing outside a late 4th qtr td all game long.  The game was there to be had if our offense can score.  Anyone blaming the defense is a moron. 18 points doesn't win you a football game against a superbowl contender with a top 5 QB.

Partly true but not totally. Conveniently, you only talked about the second half. Can we talk about the first half? How do you think they did? They gave up 21 points and the Bengals matched up and down the field in the beginning of the game. The significance of this wasn't small. Their offense set the tone for the game. 

 

So yes the offense sucked and sucked badly with the exception of the first drive. 

 

However, let's not try to portray that the Bills defense is good. They are not and when it counted they looked like Swiss cheese at the end of the game. 

 

Let's paint accurate pictures here. 

[Scott7975]

15 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Partly true but not totally. Conveniently, you only talked about the second half. Can we talk about the first half? How do you think they did? They gave up 21 points and the Bengals matched up and down the field in the beginning of the game. The significance of this wasn't small. Their offense set the tone for the game. 

 

So yes the offense sucked and sucked badly with the exception of the first drive. 

 

However, let's not try to portray that the Bills defense is good. They are not and when it counted they looked like Swiss cheese at the end of the game. 

 

Let's paint accurate pictures here. 

 

Other teams score points.  Especially elite teams and the Bengals are certainly elite with many weapons.  Did you expect a shut out?  Would it make any difference if they scored on the first drive and then in the 3rd quarter instead?  The D actually had a huge stop in the first half after our offense gave up the ball on our own 32 and the Bengals came away with zero points from it.

 

So yeah, you can say the Bills defense sucked on the first two drives but they were going to score.  Its not about what it is on the first two drives.  Its about what it is over the course of the entire game.  The fact is the offense put the D in bad spots and the D held an elite offense to 24 points.  Only 3 points in the entire second half.  Im bummed about those first two drives but they wouldn't matter if our O could score and again, we were never going to pitch a shut out.  That same team just torched the 49ers last week in an away game.  Considering our D fielded a few backup scrubs during the game, I can't put this loss on the D.  They did a good enough job to win a football game.  The offense didn't do its part.  The game was never even close.  The offense didn't make it close until mid 4th quarter while having plenty of opportunity to do so.  Thats what you expect out of a D... give your offense opportunity.  They did.  The offense couldn't match.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[newcam2012]

29 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Other teams score points.  Especially elite teams and the Bengals are certainly elite with many weapons.  Did you expect a shut out?  Would it make any difference if they scored on the first drive and then in the 3rd quarter instead?  The D actually had a huge stop in the first half after our offense gave up the ball on our own 32 and the Bengals came away with zero points from it.

 

So yeah, you can say the Bills defense sucked on the first two drives but they were going to score.  Its not about what it is on the first two drives.  Its about what it is over the course of the entire game.  The fact is the offense put the D in bad spots and the D held an elite offense to 24 points.  Only 3 points in the entire second half.  Im bummed about those first two drives but they wouldn't matter if our O could score and again, we were never going to pitch a shut out.  That same team just torched the 49ers last week in an away game.  Considering our D fielded a few backup scrubs during the game, I can't put this loss on the D.  They did a good enough job to win a football game.  The offense didn't do its part.  The game was never even close.  The offense didn't make it close until mid 4th quarter while having plenty of opportunity to do so.  Thats what you expect out of a D... give your offense opportunity.  They did.  The offense couldn't match.

You expect your D to make at stop at the end of the game to give your offense a chance to win it. They failed to get the stop. Furst play of that critical drive the Bills D was gashed on a basic 30 yard screen pass. Von whiffed on a critical third down play. They had an opportunity to stop the Bengals. I expected the Bills defense wouldn't stop the Bengals when they had to. 

 

Like I said the offense sucked and most of the blame can go in that direction. So we are in agreement there. 

 

However, the defense has to make a stop to get the ball back to the offense to try to win the game. 

 

 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

You expect your D to make at stop at the end of the game to give your offense a chance to win it. They failed to get the stop. Furst play of that critical drive the Bills D was gashed on a basic 30 yard screen pass. Von whiffed on a critical third down play. They had an opportunity to stop the Bengals. I expected the Bills defense wouldn't stop the Bengals when they had to. 

 

Like I said the offense sucked and most of the blame can go in that direction. So we are in agreement there. 

 

However, the defense has to make a stop to get the ball back to the offense to try to win the game. 

 

 

 

No, I don't.  It would be nice but the D stopped them and gave the offense a chance all 2nd half.  It's not their fault the O didn't take advantage sooner.  I did expect them to make a stop on the Pats after we took the lead with 2 mins left but thats a different situation.  The fact is the offense had a chance all game to take advantage thanks to the D.  I'm not going to fault them for not making a stop to give the offense a ball back when they did so all game long.

[ALG1130]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

You expect your D to make at stop at the end of the game to give your offense a chance to win it. They failed to get the stop. Furst play of that critical drive the Bills D was gashed on a basic 30 yard screen pass. Von whiffed on a critical third down play. They had an opportunity to stop the Bengals. I expected the Bills defense wouldn't stop the Bengals when they had to. 

 

Like I said the offense sucked and most of the blame can go in that direction. So we are in agreement there. 

 

However, the defense has to make a stop to get the ball back to the offense to try to win the game. 

 

 

I saw it coming too. Just like The Pats game. It's really frustrating. It's the "coming through when we need them" aspect that drives me crazy. We almost lost to The Giants because of it, and The Bucs. I know our D is very banged up, but we still have Oliver, Rousseau, Hyde and Poyer, Von etc 

 

I can't even imagine the bloodbaths about to come when we start playing the high flying offenses, like The Eagles around the corner.

[newcam2012]

22 minutes ago, Aimee75 said:

I saw it coming too. Just like The Pats game. It's really frustrating. It's the "coming through when we need them" aspect that drives me crazy. We almost lost to The Giants because of it, and The Bucs. I know our D is very banged up, but we still have Oliver, Rousseau, Hyde and Poyer, Von etc 

 

I can't even imagine the bloodbaths about to come when we start playing the high flying offenses, like The Eagles around the corner.

The Eagles are going to annihilate the Bills. 

[newcam2012]

47 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

No, I don't.  It would be nice but the D stopped them and gave the offense a chance all 2nd half.  It's not their fault the O didn't take advantage sooner.  I did expect them to make a stop on the Pats after we took the lead with 2 mins left but thats a different situation.  The fact is the offense had a chance all game to take advantage thanks to the D.  I'm not going to fault them for not making a stop to give the offense a ball back when they did so all game long.

Good defenses make stops to give their offense a chance at the end of games. That is a sign of a good and effective defense.

 

Your expectations are way too low here. I want a defense who can make the big stop. Apparently, that's just a bonus to you...

 

That's exactly why Von was brought to Buffalo. It's to close out games and prevent offenses from closing you out. Did you happen to see Von on the critical play? 

Edited November 7, 2023 by newcam2012

[BillMafia716ix]

For the life of me, I just wish Josh Allen had a respectable running game. We continue to play this finesse style of offense and it annoys the crap out of me because everything has to be on his shoulders. Why are we throwing the ball on 3rd and 2? Instead of just lining up under center and handing it off or working off play action. A player like Josh would thrive in an offense like that. 
 
I watch Philly play and say to myself Josh Allen would look great in their offense. But instead we just wanna spread out go 5 wide and play backyard football. 

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Good defenses make stops to give their offense a chance at the end of games. That is a sign of a good and effective defense.

 

Your expectations are way too low here. I want a defense who can make the big stop. Apparently, that's just a bonus to you...

 

That's exactly why Von was brought to Buffalo. It's to close out games and prevent offenses from closing you out. Did you happen to see Von on the critical play? 

 

I expect that if they are healthy.  Did you see the list of players on defense on that final drive?  You're asking the C crew to stop an elite offense.  For the last time, they stopped the Bengals all game long.  Where was the offense?  The offense had 6 other drives to score a TD on. Yeah, thats right.... 6 other drives.  You want to blame the defense over 1 drive.  It wasn't even a guarantee the offense scored if they did get the ball back.  Von is still coming back from an ACL. That takes time.  Just because he is on the field doesn't mean he is back to himself.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[RunTheBall]

The only quick move that can be made to improve this team this season is to fire Dorsey and try someone else at play calling. Won’t happen.

 

Do I think it will work? Probably not. But, you can’t keep rolling this same garbage offense out there week after week and expect different results.

 

A huge problem on both sides of the ball is predictability. It’s gotten to the point where you can hear the other team’s players call out our plays on tv! How many times in the post game do you need to hear the opponent say something along the lines of “we knew exactly what they were going to run”. I mean come on, how many of you armchair coaches can call our plays pretty consistently? I know I can. It’s so pathetic it’s laughable.

 

And please stop with the Davis is a good WR talk. He’s DEAD Jim. The guy runs 3 routes, you hear it all the time. He completely disappears. He had a good game last week because DBs were playing 12 yards off him and Dorsey actually used his pea sized noggin for once and had Gabe run some trend breaking routes (basically anything other that a deep route). The problem is as soon as teams start giving Gabe only 7 yards off the line his entire route tree is covered because he gets ZERO separation when he can’t take 6 seconds to ramp up to top speed 60 yards down field. Stop. Davis is done.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by RunTheBall

[billieve420]

Defense did enough to win the game. The offense which is supposed to be the strength of this team has continued its pattern of starting slow and then trying to pick things up when it is too late. Offensively things have become too disjointed since last year and it appears teams have figured them out. So it is a combination of scheme and the QB. Both Dorsey and Josh need to fix things. If they don’t expect Dorsey to be fired at the end of the season. Some of the blame also falls on McDermott who I think can be overly controlling with all his complimentary football talk. My guess this caused some friction with Daboll when he was here.

Edited November 7, 2023 by billieve420

[Bermuda Triangle]

Is it unreasonable to ask the defense to come up with a turnover?  1 in 4 games is absurdly embarrassing, injuries or not.  If the backups can't be expected to perform at an NFL level, then that's on Beane.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I expect that if they are healthy.  Did you see the list of players on defense on that final drive?  You're asking the C crew to stop an elite offense.  For the last time, they stopped the Bengals all game long.  Where was the offense?  The offense had 6 other drives to score a TD on. Yeah, thats right.... 6 other drives.  You want to blame the defense over 1 drive.  It wasn't even a guarantee the offense scored if they did get the ball back.  Von is still coming back from an ACL. That takes time.  Just because he is on the field doesn't mean he is back to himself.

 

Other than the worst possible 1st quarter where we gave up back to back 5+ minute TD drives ? 

 

That's as silly as saying the offense played great because they scored a TD on their first and last possession. 

 

The injuries are a valid excuse, but the defense played like garbage. It would've been 30+ points allowed (with 0 forced turnovers) if the refs hadn't taken that 55 yard FG off the board on a phantom false start and if the Bengals were trying to score on the last drive instead of kill the clock. 

 

Defenses are allowed to stop elite offenses you know. The Cowboys were trailing 28-17 with 10 minutes left in the 4th Q and their offense just turned the ball over on downs. Their DEF stepped up against an elite offense and forced 3 straight 3 and outs on the Eagles final 3 possessions. They still fell short, but at least their DEF gave the OFF a chance. 

[Scott7975]

21 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Other than the worst possible 1st quarter where we gave up back to back 5+ minute TD drives ? 

 

That's as silly as saying the offense played great because they scored a TD on their first and last possession. 

 

The injuries are a valid excuse, but the defense played like garbage. It would've been 30+ points allowed (with 0 forced turnovers) if the refs hadn't taken that 55 yard FG off the board on a phantom false start and if the Bengals were trying to score on the last drive instead of kill the clock. 

 

Defenses are allowed to stop elite offenses you know. The Cowboys were trailing 28-17 with 10 minutes left in the 4th Q and their offense just turned the ball over on downs. Their DEF stepped up against an elite offense and forced 3 straight 3 and outs on the Eagles final 3 possessions. They still fell short, but at least their DEF gave the OFF a chance. 

 

It doesn't matter if they gave up back to back drives. Its the same points if its back to back or 1 score in 2 different quarters. It's over the course of the whole game.  The offense had 6 drives they could have scored on where the defense held them to no points and they did diddly with it other than 3 and out or turn the ball over.  We turned the ball over twice to an elite offense and the rag tag defense still held them to 24 points.

 

As for the rest... ifs ifs ifs.  None of it happened so it doesn't count.  How about the tripping that would have given us a first down and 15 more yards.  We could have went on to score, you don't know.  It's all ifs.

 

You can say all you want.  The fact is the offense scored 18 points and the defense allowed 24.  If you expect a rag tag defense to hold an elite team under 18 points, you are out of your mind.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It doesn't matter if they gave up back to back drives. Its the same points if its back to back or 1 score in 2 different quarters. It's over the course of the whole game.  The offense had 6 drives they could have scored on where the defense held them to no points and they did diddly with it other than 3 and out or turn the ball over.  We turned the ball over twice to an elite offense and the rag tag defense still held them to 24 points.

 

As for the rest... ifs ifs ifs.  None of it happened so it doesn't count.  How about the tripping that would have given us a first down and 15 more yards.  We could have went on to score, you don't know.  It's all ifs.

 

You can say all you want.  The fact is the offense scored 18 points and the defense allowed 24.  If you expect a rag tag defense to hold an elite team under 18 points, you are out of your mind.

 

This. 

 

I still have criticisms of the defense on Sunday, particularly some of the playcalling. But I watched the same Bengals offense on the road score 31 against the 49ers defense with multiple all pros a week earlier. If you'd said to me before that game "Cincy will score 24" I'd have said the Bills have a very legit chance to win that game. The fact is the offense sucked for much of the game again. Too many mistakes and can't get out of its own way. 

[Royale with Cheese]

35 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Other than the worst possible 1st quarter where we gave up back to back 5+ minute TD drives ? 

 

That's as silly as saying the offense played great because they scored a TD on their first and last possession. 

 

The injuries are a valid excuse, but the defense played like garbage. It would've been 30+ points allowed (with 0 forced turnovers) if the refs hadn't taken that 55 yard FG off the board on a phantom false start and if the Bengals were trying to score on the last drive instead of kill the clock. 

 

Defenses are allowed to stop elite offenses you know. The Cowboys were trailing 28-17 with 10 minutes left in the 4th Q and their offense just turned the ball over on downs. Their DEF stepped up against an elite offense and forced 3 straight 3 and outs on the Eagles final 3 possessions. They still fell short, but at least their DEF gave the OFF a chance. 

 

Cincy had a total of 9 drives and scored 3 TD's and 24 points total.  

 

I'm confused on how you're saying the injuries are valid, but immediately say they played like garbage to it's really not an excuse.  Its like you're saying an injury filled Bills defense should be able to stop the fully healthy Bengals offense.  Why is 24 points enough to beat the Bills?

So the Cowboys get accolades for 3 straight 3 and outs but our defense gives up 3 points in the ENTIRE 2nd half and that's just too much or something?

 

Phantom false start?  What Tim Settle's roughing the passer a phantom call or legit?

 

 

 

 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

15 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

It doesn't matter if they gave up back to back drives. Its the same points if its back to back or 1 score in 2 different quarters. It's over the course of the whole game.  The offense had 6 drives they could have scored on where the defense held them to no points and they did diddly with it other than 3 and out or turn the ball over.  We turned the ball over twice to an elite offense and the rag tag defense still held them to 24 points.

 

As for the rest... ifs ifs ifs.  None of it happened so it doesn't count.  How about the tripping that would have given us a first down and 15 more yards.  We could have went on to score, you don't know.  It's all ifs.

 

You can say all you want.  The fact is the offense scored 18 points and the defense allowed 24.  If you expect a rag tag defense to hold an elite team under 18 points, you are out of your mind.

 

There's more to a game than just points. Do you think the Bills DEF (24 points allowed) played better than the Jets DEF (27 points allowed) this week ?

 

Turnovers, TOP, and Yards all matter and our defense was absolutely gashed the entire game without forcing a turnover. 

 

Looking at points allowed, turnovers forced, TOP, and yards allowed the DEF gave us maybe a 10-20% chance of winning the game. I'd put the offense around the same percentile. 

[Royale with Cheese]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This. 

 

I still have criticisms of the defense on Sunday, particularly some of the playcalling. But I watched the same Bengals offense on the road score 31 against the 49ers defense with multiple all pros a week earlier. If you'd said to me before that game "Cincy will score 24" I'd have said the Bills have a very legit chance to win that game. The fact is the offense sucked for much of the game again. Too many mistakes and can't get out of its own way. 

 

We gave up 3 second half points.  Our D kept us in the game.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

There's more to a game than just points. Do you think the Bills DEF (24 points allowed) played better than the Jets DEF (27 points allowed) this week ?

 

Turnovers, TOP, and Yards all matter and our defense was absolutely gashed the entire game without forcing a turnover. 

 

Looking at points allowed, turnovers forced, TOP, and yards allowed the DEF gave us maybe a 10-20% chance of winning the game. I'd put the offense around the same percentile. 

 

Why is 24 points too much for our offense to overcome?  

 

Our TOP was bad because on our 3 punts, we ran 10 plays.  Our INT was on 2 plays.  

 

If it takes only 24 points on defense to give us a 10-20% chance of winning?

[Scott7975]

13 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

There's more to a game than just points. Do you think the Bills DEF (24 points allowed) played better than the Jets DEF (27 points allowed) this week ?

 

Turnovers, TOP, and Yards all matter and our defense was absolutely gashed the entire game without forcing a turnover. 

 

Looking at points allowed, turnovers forced, TOP, and yards allowed the DEF gave us maybe a 10-20% chance of winning the game. I'd put the offense around the same percentile. 

 

Gashed the entire game - 35 yards punt, 4 yards punt, 34 yards punt, 23 yards turnover of downs

ToP our offense - 1:40  punt, 13 seconds int, 2:09 punt, 1:37 end of half, 1:18 punt, 3:55 fumble

 

What gave us 10-20% chance at winning the game was Allen throwing an int and Kincaid fumbling the football after driving the field and 4 other drives the offense did nothing.

 

Sorry, but the defense did fine.  Fact remains the offense had 6 drives that they could have scored on and did nothing.  You aren't going to win football games if you keep giving the ball back to an elite offense from turnovers and punts.  The offense has to score.  It didn't.  Not the defenses fault.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Scott7975