Joe Marino

[Matt_In_NH]

21 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

24 points, 400 yards, 0 turnovers, 1 sack, and 36 minutes TOP is a lousy defensive game

 

Agreed, people are very focused on the 24 points.  This defense has one turnover in the last 5 games.   They cannot get off the field.  The offense also disappeared.  So the problems are on both sides of the ball.  The only thing we can say is on defense, there is sort of an explanation...injuries.   Still, the pass rush has disappeared and there is a lot of bad tackling.

[Bermuda Triangle]

17 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Now show how many teams won scoring 18 points or less.  In most of those losing efforts where the D gave up 24+ points they had the same thing in common... the offense was not scoring and turning over the football.  A defense can only do so much when the offense keeps putting them back on the field. 

 

I don't care about the clock. The clock changes to be normal ToP with just one 5 minute drive by the offense instead of turning the football over after 14 seconds. Our offense gave them two extra possessions.  Again, the defense stopped the Bengals 6 times.  They scored 3 points the entire second half.  Our offense did nothing until mid 4th quarter.  The game wasn't even close before last min offense.  The offense was the problem this game not the defense. 

 

Now I am done with you because we are just going in circles and you haven't retorted anything.

Anything stopping them from forcing a turnover more than 1x/month?

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Anything stopping them from forcing a turnover more than 1x/month?

 

I think probably talent and also probably aggressiveness. McD can get aggressive on blitzes but he plays soft zone non aggressive on the back end.  Our guys don't even chuck the receiver at the line when they play close.  I made comments about that in the GDT this week. Even when our coverage played at the line they were still letting free releases of the receivers.  I couldn't believe it.  Just my guess though.

[Thurman#1]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:03 PM, colin said:

 

nonsense.

 

having such high EPA per drive means the tools are there for success, but the coaching is not delivering.  having predictable play calls is a coaching problem.  having players make the same preventable mistakes in the same situations is a coaching issue -- either coach the player to not make the mistake, or change what you are doing so that tendency isn't as glaring.

 

spacing on routes is a scheme coaching issue.  

 

i'll make it simple if it wasn't before -- if you have capable players and get bad results, you have bad coaching.  if you have less capable players and get good results, you have good coaching.

 

we have plenty of capability on O, same roster even with more talent (Dalton) than the prior season.  our results are much worse, so either all the players forgot how to play, or the coaches are being lame and predictable.  the data points are quite obvious, high epa, same players killed it on o before, current o sucks, even vs weak ds.

 

on d it's maybe even worse.

 

 

Nonsense is right, and you're absolutely chock full of it.

 

"having such high EPA per drive means the tools are there for success, but the coaching is not delivering," you say. Sorry, man, but that's complete poppycock. High EPA only means the team is in a good situation at that moment. If the team fails in a promising situation that doesn't show you have bad coaching. All it shows is that the team failed. It doesn't say a damn thing about who caused the failure.

 

The fact that you're instantly blaming that on coaching doesn't say anything about reality. It does show one thing. It shows that you - you personally - have decided who you want to blame, and thus are taking any input as proof of your narrative. It shows you're running on confirmation bias.

 

Spacing on routes is a coaching problem. Unless a player runs the wrong route. Then it's a player problem. We don't know which is the problem on any give play. There is never any proof of it. There have been spacing problems on some plays, but not on most. Who's to blame? Likely sometimes it's a coaching problem and sometimes a player problem.

 

You can "make it simple," if you want, but awful logic, even if it's simple, doesn't show anything whatsoever. We have good players. We have good coaches. It's still not hitting on all cylinders. When that happens in extremely complicated situations, the guy who wants to put all the blame in one place is simply showing he doesn't understand how the world works. He's crippled by confirmation bias. Anyone with even cursory knowledge of the NFL can show you dozens of good teams with good rosters performing really well for a while and then really poorly for a while, in the same season with the same coaches, and stretching over a couple of seasons.

 

My favorite example is the Giants team that beat the 16-0 Pats in the Super Bowl. They looked like an early playoff out. Couldn't beat good teams all year. Then they started playing well. They're a great example, but there are a huge number of teams looking like two different teams year to year or even in the same year. 

 

The idea that you have here that good rosters never play poorly and therefore if they do it's on the coaching ... it's absolutely laughable. Of course good rosters play poorly sometimes. And bad rosters play well sometimes. It's a part of the league.

 

High EPA doesn't show squat about this issue. Absolutely zero. It shows the team was in promising situations. It doesn't show who is responsible for the problem.

 

There's blame to go around. The coaches - as I've said in this thread - have made some bad moves, such as blitzing Burrow. The players have also done some really bad work. Josh's INT against the Bengals is one good example. The play is built for him to hit the honey hole behind the CB and in front of the safety. The play is there. The receiver has four yards on the CB, the safety's not in the picture yet, and Josh underthrows it by a lot and lets the CB get back into it and make the play. There's been a lot of visible bad execution. And some visible bad coaching as well.

 

That's just how things look when teams aren't rolling right. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 11/8/2023 at 11:15 PM, Matt_In_NH said:

 

Agreed, people are very focused on the 24 points.  This defense has one turnover in the last 5 games.   They cannot get off the field.  The offense also disappeared.  So the problems are on both sides of the ball.  The only thing we can say is on defense, there is sort of an explanation...injuries.   Still, the pass rush has disappeared and there is a lot of bad tackling.

 

 

Yeah. The whole team is in a funk. Overall the D is playing better than the offense despite the injuries, but they didn't look good against the Bengals. 

 

And yeah, the pass rush has just disappeared, though hearing about Rousseau's foot injury helps clear things up at least a bit. If Von gets a lot closer to what he was historically, the pass rush will look a lot better, I think. I'm not sure he will. Hope so

 

We've seen the Bills snap out of it before. But sometimes teams just don't.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

On 11/6/2023 at 11:32 AM, Heavy Kevi said:

 

This is a legitimate factor with the new stadium/higher ticket prices.

 

I have no confidence pegula will move on from McDermott this year, but after next year if this team still looks like, well... this; he's going to have to do something to excite the fans.

 

Whenever determining what a person or organization will do, always follow the money. Billionaires gonna billionaire and the team either needs to sustain success until the new stadium or there will have to be some razzle dazzle and flash to sell new tickets. A new HC (and voice for the org) would do just that.

They can resign TO … IIRC, that generated excitement the last time they did it 😂

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah. The whole team is in a funk. Overall the D is playing better than the offense despite the injuries, but they didn't look good against the Bengals. 

 

And yeah, the pass rush has just disappeared, though hearing about Rousseau's foot injury helps clear things up at least a bit. If Von gets a lot closer to what he was historically, the pass rush will look a lot better, I think. I'm not sure he will. Hope so

 

We've seen the Bills snap out of it before. But sometimes teams just don't.

The defense was pretty dreadful post Milano/jones/white injuries until the cincy game…I’m hopin linval and rasul get us back closer to how we started the season.  If we had them a few weeks earlier the pats game is more than likely a win and we’d be sitting at 6-3 with the division lead. 

 

offenses have been struggling all around the league this season but our d was way too easy to exploit for that stretch of games post jax. The offense has no doubt been bad too but there aren’t a whole lot of teams that are consistently moving up and down the field this year.  This has been a really strange season 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Shemp]

Joe and Dr. Trimble were talking about why the Bills defense is so banged up. One of the interesting things Trimble said was that the defense is old, which is a cause for injuries...I might add to that not only are the Bills are too old on defense, many of them are too young too. They have an interesting combination of guys who are either trying to work their way into the league or on their way out.

[colin]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:26 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense is right, and you're absolutely chock full of it.

 

"having such high EPA per drive means the tools are there for success, but the coaching is not delivering," you say. Sorry, man, but that's complete poppycock. High EPA only means the team is in a good situation at that moment. If the team fails in a promising situation that doesn't show you have bad coaching. All it shows is that the team failed. It doesn't say a damn thing about who caused the failure.

 

The fact that you're instantly blaming that on coaching doesn't say anything about reality. It does show one thing. It shows that you - you personally - have decided who you want to blame, and thus are taking any input as proof of your narrative. It shows you're running on confirmation bias.

 

Spacing on routes is a coaching problem. Unless a player runs the wrong route. Then it's a player problem. We don't know which is the problem on any give play. There is never any proof of it. There have been spacing problems on some plays, but not on most. Who's to blame? Likely sometimes it's a coaching problem and sometimes a player problem.

 

You can "make it simple," if you want, but awful logic, even if it's simple, doesn't show anything whatsoever. We have good players. We have good coaches. It's still not hitting on all cylinders. When that happens in extremely complicated situations, the guy who wants to put all the blame in one place is simply showing he doesn't understand how the world works. He's crippled by confirmation bias. Anyone with even cursory knowledge of the NFL can show you dozens of good teams with good rosters performing really well for a while and then really poorly for a while, in the same season with the same coaches, and stretching over a couple of seasons.

 

My favorite example is the Giants team that beat the 16-0 Pats in the Super Bowl. They looked like an early playoff out. Couldn't beat good teams all year. Then they started playing well. They're a great example, but there are a huge number of teams looking like two different teams year to year or even in the same year. 

 

The idea that you have here that good rosters never play poorly and therefore if they do it's on the coaching ... it's absolutely laughable. Of course good rosters play poorly sometimes. And bad rosters play well sometimes. It's a part of the league.

 

High EPA doesn't show squat about this issue. Absolutely zero. It shows the team was in promising situations. It doesn't show who is responsible for the problem.

 

There's blame to go around. The coaches - as I've said in this thread - have made some bad moves, such as blitzing Burrow. The players have also done some really bad work. Josh's INT against the Bengals is one good example. The play is built for him to hit the honey hole behind the CB and in front of the safety. The play is there. The receiver has four yards on the CB, the safety's not in the picture yet, and Josh underthrows it by a lot and lets the CB get back into it and make the play. There's been a lot of visible bad execution. And some visible bad coaching as well.

 

That's just how things look when teams aren't rolling right. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

ya, you make a great point.  it's unknowable, so therefor it's the fault of all elements equally.  that's as much as an assumption as the one i'm making, except i'm basing my opinion on what i'm seeing, not what can't be seen.

 

we have the biggest or second biggest investment on the D in the nfl, 111mm cap as well as the lion's share of our high picks.  our HC is a Defensive guru.  our d has been utter cheeks, and our d lead to us getting trucked out of the playoffs ever time we exited with josh allen as our qb.

 

our O moves the ball like a hot knife through butter, and then they stop doing what worked and fail miserably, calling awful shotgun runs that the d has down pat and baffling redzone plays.  the coaches can't explain why we stopped doing what worked at the presser after.

 

the same squad that had the team fall totally flat vs cinci at home in the playoffs, and the same squad who gave us the 13 second abortion, like, what extra evidence do you need to tell you that our coaching is doing poorly?  do you need a signed notarized affidavit from the coaches saying they don't know what they are doing and feel underqualified?

 

the vast majority of our teams' success is because josh allen is an insane talent at the most important position.  diggs is a bonafide super star at wr as well.

 

dropping a game to the mac jones pats and not looking any better vs tb and nyg is pretty plain evidence that something is rotten in denmark, but you are too paralyzed with uncertainty to come up with a conclusion that's pretty well a common narrative around the nfl.

[NewEra]

On 11/11/2023 at 8:26 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Nonsense is right, and you're absolutely chock full of it.

 

"having such high EPA per drive means the tools are there for success, but the coaching is not delivering," you say. Sorry, man, but that's complete poppycock. High EPA only means the team is in a good situation at that moment. If the team fails in a promising situation that doesn't show you have bad coaching. All it shows is that the team failed. It doesn't say a damn thing about who caused the failure.

 

The fact that you're instantly blaming that on coaching doesn't say anything about reality. It does show one thing. It shows that you - you personally - have decided who you want to blame, and thus are taking any input as proof of your narrative. It shows you're running on confirmation bias.

 

Spacing on routes is a coaching problem. Unless a player runs the wrong route. Then it's a player problem. We don't know which is the problem on any give play. There is never any proof of it. There have been spacing problems on some plays, but not on most. Who's to blame? Likely sometimes it's a coaching problem and sometimes a player problem.

 

You can "make it simple," if you want, but awful logic, even if it's simple, doesn't show anything whatsoever. We have good players. We have good coaches. It's still not hitting on all cylinders. When that happens in extremely complicated situations, the guy who wants to put all the blame in one place is simply showing he doesn't understand how the world works. He's crippled by confirmation bias. Anyone with even cursory knowledge of the NFL can show you dozens of good teams with good rosters performing really well for a while and then really poorly for a while, in the same season with the same coaches, and stretching over a couple of seasons.

 

My favorite example is the Giants team that beat the 16-0 Pats in the Super Bowl. They looked like an early playoff out. Couldn't beat good teams all year. Then they started playing well. They're a great example, but there are a huge number of teams looking like two different teams year to year or even in the same year. 

 

The idea that you have here that good rosters never play poorly and therefore if they do it's on the coaching ... it's absolutely laughable. Of course good rosters play poorly sometimes. And bad rosters play well sometimes. It's a part of the league.

 

High EPA doesn't show squat about this issue. Absolutely zero. It shows the team was in promising situations. It doesn't show who is responsible for the problem.

 

There's blame to go around. The coaches - as I've said in this thread - have made some bad moves, such as blitzing Burrow. The players have also done some really bad work. Josh's INT against the Bengals is one good example. The play is built for him to hit the honey hole behind the CB and in front of the safety. The play is there. The receiver has four yards on the CB, the safety's not in the picture yet, and Josh underthrows it by a lot and lets the CB get back into it and make the play. There's been a lot of visible bad execution. And some visible bad coaching as well.

 

That's just how things look when teams aren't rolling right. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

 

 

 

💯 👍🏻 

[Solomon Grundy]

18 hours ago, Shemp said:

Joe and Dr. Trimble were talking about why the Bills defense is so banged up. One of the interesting things Trimble said was that the defense is old, which is a cause for injuries...I might add to that not only are the Bills are too old on defense, many of them are too young too. They have an interesting combination of guys who are either trying to work their way into the league or on their way out.

What's Benford's excuse?? Too young 🤷

[Don Otreply]

On 11/6/2023 at 7:32 AM, Mango said:

I think some of the issue is Dorsey, some is offensive personnel, but I also think Josh has been figured out a bit. He’s a brute force kind of QB, and when things get tight he doubles down on it. 
 

I was driving this am and caught a quick CIN quote post game on NFL radio and he said something like “we just tried to keep the play in front of us, take away the big play, force them to drive the field, don’t let Josh escape the pocket”.

 

Dorsey needs to find a way to get Josh going when teams do this. But man, it sucks to hear teams say stuff like this. This is where we just beat ourselves. Take what they give you!

  That Dorsey, McDermott and by extension Josh have not figured out that DC’s have figured out a lot of Joshes tendencies and Dorsey’s play calling tendencies to a noticeable degree, and then made changes accordingly is were the problem lies.

 
    Like you I feel our offense has been figured out to some degree,  and taking what defenses give us is key, I for one don’t give a Fuh k if we dink and dunk down the field to score points, frankly it’s beneficial in that it keep the opponents offense off the field longer and it tires out Defenses, it’s a win win proposition for our team, a metaphorical kick it the ass is what McDermott needs to deliver to Dorsey and Josh, He seems to be reticent to apply such pressure, but what do I know…, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited November 13, 2023 by Don Otreply