Bills @ Bengals postgame thread

[Bruffalo]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Here's a frustrating stat - McDermott blitzed Burrow on 30.4% of pass plays. On those plays he went 10/14 for 158 yards.

 

We're the only defense I see that regularly blitzes without getting home. It's crazy. Every offensive line picks up our blitz without issue, meanwhile our pass protection scheme constantly fails against the blitz.

Our secondary plays so far off man that the flats and 1-8 yard past the LOS is seemingly always open.  The blitz seems to never work because the opposing QB sees a guy basically uncovered and makes the pass. 

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

Our secondary plays so far off man that the flats and 1-8 yard past the LOS is seemingly always open.  The blitz seems to never work because the opposing QB sees a guy basically uncovered and makes the pass. 

 

Yeah I will say it appears to be structure of our blitz plays that fails us. Other teams blitz and it seems very unpredictable with coverage sometimes being rolled to the area where the QB would normally look to "replace the blitz." With us we seemingly just send extra bodies without any thought for the offensive line's protection scheme or the coverage.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Don’t tell an old man how to make babies. 
 

I was there…THERE during OJ’s 2000 yard season.

 

Also anyone who knows anything as a Bills fan knows it’s lightweight arguments to be bringing up 3-13, when many of us have have been in the stands for 2-14 years and 1 win seasons.

 

The Vikes M.O. lately and in some years past is “really good but not there or can’t get there.”
 

We are three years removed from just appearing in the AFC Championship, less than a year after only the second home playoff loss in Orchard Park history against a team that we have no answers for, in the dying light of one of the great safety tandems in league history and maybe down to a year with a future hall of famer at WR and let alone an all world QB and we are further away now than we were at the start of this decade with EVERYBODY else in the conference seemingly getting better other than the Pats.

 

I was incorrect.  You're not spoiled.  You're like me.  But you gotta admit that the games are way more entertaining and interesting now.  And I don't believe hope is gone for a SB this year.  They can get hot just like the Bengals....

[dollars 2 donuts]

Just now, Joe Ferguson forever said:

I was incorrect.  You're not spoiled.  You're like me.  But you gotta admit that the games are way more entertaining and interesting now.  And I don't believe hope is gone for a SB this year.  They can get hot just like the Bengals....

I agree, and please I meant no disrespect to you and if you took it that way I do apologize. 
 

Here’s the very weird other thing, Joe…I don’t know how frustrated I am in general as much as I have…how do I put this…relegated myself to the fact that in my lifetime I may not get to see what I always wanted to see from this team as my days are getting shorter and shorter.  I’m closer to the end than I am to the beginning and I can live with this disappointment due to perspective in life and enjoying so many other things I have in it.

…it’s just having seen this for so long and thinking in recent years “one or two more things and we’re there, or at least we are back” only to realize…maybe we’re not.

 

Hell, though…it is the journey and not the destination, right?!

 

Go Bills.

 

 

[zow2]

I hate to say it but we offer little resistance against Burrows quick release, accuracy and decision making.

 

This is going to kill me but i think Cincinnati may win the Super Bowl.  They're not perfect but they have that good blend of great QB'ing playmakers and swag.  We know they can beat the KC's and San Francisco's of the world on any given day.  Their biggest kryptonite may be Baltimore..and who knows if they would even have to play the Ravens in January. 

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

50 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I will say it appears to be structure of our blitz plays that fails us. Other teams blitz and it seems very unpredictable with coverage sometimes being rolled to the area where the QB would normally look to "replace the blitz." With us we seemingly just send extra bodies without any thought for the offensive line's protection scheme or the coverage.

I feel like we are "damned if we do" / "damned if we dont" situation.

 

We needed to get Cincy into more 3rd and longs, which we couldn't do without gambling/blitzing early downs.

 

Our main issue is lack of speed in the secondary, especially safety but also at Dodsons spot with Milano out.  

 

We shouldn't need to blitz so often, but front four just isn't cutting it over the past month+.  Soon as Groot hurt his foot, Jones went down, Ed battling his toe injury, etc.  Not an excuse, but we are struggling through too many injuries (and lack of back 7 speed).

 

Unfortunately, I don't know what McD can do this year...it was death by 1k cuts last night or take some chances....but only giving up 24 points wasn't the ultimate problem.  Offense was a major letdown, perhaps McD to blame there as well.

 

But we don't have the "horses", IMO.  That's mostly due to injury on defense, but Beane has to find a way to get younger/more athletic at S and WR next offseason.  We might have the least athletic/speed of any back 7 in NFL right now...it's definitely bottom 5.

[GoBills808]

55 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I will say it appears to be structure of our blitz plays that fails us. Other teams blitz and it seems very unpredictable with coverage sometimes being rolled to the area where the QB would normally look to "replace the blitz." With us we seemingly just send extra bodies without any thought for the offensive line's protection scheme or the coverage.

W out looking at all22 for last night yet I would guess it's also a function of matching scheme w personnel

 

Our blitzes in really important moments tend to leave Hyde in man coverage which is going to be a mismatch, just not his strong suit at this point

[RunTheBall]

I’m actually quite relaxed now because my expectations for this team have completely changed. Expectations - Reality = Disappointment. That’s not by choice, I’ve enjoyed thinking we were a Super Bowl contender the last few years but I can’t deny what I see with my own eyes. This team isn’t close to Super Bowl caliber in its current state and it goes beyond injuries. They will be lucky to make the playoffs. 

 

There is something wrong, something missing in this team and IDK what it is. It’s easy to blame coaching, idk if that’s some of all of it, and I wonder if McD is losing the locker room because outside of Diggs, I’m not seeing much passion or fight from these guys. It’s like they don’t think they can win anymore. 

 

I don’t expect this team to make the playoffs. The games from here on out are nearly stress free. If they somehow turn it around I’ll be pleasantly surprised and enjoy the ride!

 

[Sestak4ever]

We cannot constantly lose the turnover battles and expect to win games.

[SloanBillsFan]

15 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Fire everyone the day the season ends.  
 

Get an offensive HC. 

 

And then the D goes to 💩

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

All of these things can be true at the same time. It isn't an either or of OvD or Dorsey, Frazier, McD, or Beane etc.

 

McDermott/Beane built a good team and culture beginning in 2017.

 

McDermott, Frazier and the ST Coordinator committed the unpardonable sin of the blowing the 13 sec game in Kansas City in 2021. We started to wonder if McD was Marty Schottenheimer reincarnate (great in regular season, lacking big time in playoffs)

 

Last year we started like a house on fire with the addition of Von Miller and the belief that the previous year was behind us and we would continue to be contenders.

 

Then in 2022 A bunch of injuries occurred which hadn't really been a big issue in prior seasons. We experienced adversity on and off the field. We discovered that we didn't have the depth the team believed we did.

 

Teams adjusted to our offense and defense. Our O-coordinator is an unproven guy as OC who had no prior record of adjusting as teams figured him out. And, our old DC continued to fade into his old ways and got fired by HC.

 

In 2023, we've finally started to admit that our coaching staff is more of a one trick pony and really lacks the intelligence many of the other successful teams around the NFL have.

 

We watched a well coached Cincinnati team dismantle us again despite having ample time to prepare.

 

I'll leave you with " the safety is blitzing", how many times did we hear that last night and our blitz didn't get home. And, why did our offense change so much after the first drive? And, why is the coach when asked at halftime why his defense was pushed around the whole first ( to the point it took us out of running game because we fell behind and knew we had to score), why does he respond with " well I thought we really started to adjust the last couple series and we need to play better complimentary football we were left in bad field positions"?

 

I'll tell you what I think, McDermott should take more accountability! That was not the right answer to give.

 

Finally, Marty Schottenheimer built 3 great programs......... He never won a thing. It happens.

 

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, RunTheBall said:

I’m actually quite relaxed now because my expectations for this team have completely changed. Expectations - Reality = Disappointment. That’s not by choice, I’ve enjoyed thinking we were a Super Bowl contender the last few years but I can’t deny what I see with my own eyes. This team isn’t close to Super Bowl caliber in its current state and it goes beyond injuries. They will be lucky to make the playoffs. 

 

There is something wrong, something missing in this team and IDK what it is. It’s easy to blame coaching, idk if that’s some of all of it, and I wonder if McD is losing the locker room because outside of Diggs, I’m not seeing much passion or fight from these guys. It’s like they don’t think they can win anymore. 

 

I don’t expect this team to make the playoffs. The games from here on out are nearly stress free. If they somehow turn it around I’ll be pleasantly surprised and enjoy the ride!

 

I wish that I didn't agree with this post, but I do.

If I look at this team and am completely honest with myself, I have to acknowledge that is just seems too flawed to win a championship this season.

These Bills are simply too inconsistent from game to game. Even if they get into the playoffs, does anyone HONESTLY have faith they can string together the four good games (playoffs + Super Bowl) necessary to hoist a Lombardi? They can fight and claw their way into the playoffs, but does anyone really have any faith that the Bills team we saw last night won't rear its ugly head once there and be eliminated immediately anyway?

Like you, I have felt the past few years that the Bills were legitimate Super Bowl contenders just going through midseason slumps. That they'd right the ship and make the playoffs and contend for a title. This year? I don't feel that way. I feel like they're just a pretty average football team. Capable of being the best team in the league any given week, but also capable of being confoundingly vanilla, unimaginative, uninspired, and lackluster.

I, too, have begun to wonder if what plagues this team is intangible. If they have simply stopped having fun and stopped having swag and stopped believing they can win. You look at the swagger of a team like the Bengals -- or even the post-McDaniels Raiders yesterday -- and then you look at our team. When was the last time we displayed that type of confidence? When was the last time our team looked from whistle to whistle like it was having fun and playing for each other and believing in each other?

Something's off, and the thing that makes me saddest of all is that I can't easily put my finger on what it is. There is no easy fix here. No "oh, just do this and all will be well" solution. I don't know how to fix these Bills. All I know is that the 2023 Buffalo Bills do not look like Super Bowl contenders, and that sucks.

[Success]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

I wish that I didn't agree with this post, but I do.

If I look at this team and am completely honest with myself, I have to acknowledge that is just seems too flawed to win a championship this season.

These Bills are simply too inconsistent from game to game. Even if they get into the playoffs, does anyone HONESTLY have faith they can string together the four good games (playoffs + Super Bowl) necessary to hoist a Lombardi? They can fight and claw their way into the playoffs, but does anyone really have any faith that the Bills team we saw last night won't rear its ugly head once there and be eliminated immediately anyway?

Like you, I have felt the past few years that the Bills were legitimate Super Bowl contenders just going through midseason slumps. That they'd right the ship and make the playoffs and contend for a title. This year? I don't feel that way. I feel like they're just a pretty average football team. Capable of being the best team in the league any given week, but also capable of being confoundingly vanilla, unimaginative, uninspired, and lackluster.

I, too, have begun to wonder if what plagues this team is intangible. If they have simply stopped having fun and stopped having swag and stopped believing they can win. You look at the swagger of a team like the Bengals -- or even the post-McDaniels Raiders yesterday -- and then you look at our team. When was the last time we displayed that type of confidence? When was the last time our team looked from whistle to whistle like it was having fun and playing for each other and believing in each other?

Something's off, and the thing that makes me saddest of all is that I can't easily put my finger on what it is. There is no easy fix here. No "oh, just do this and all will be well" solution. I don't know how to fix these Bills. All I know is that the 2023 Buffalo Bills do not look like Super Bowl contenders, and that sucks.

 

I might be projecting some of my own feelings as a longtime fan onto this:  but I see a team that looks like it has a 2-ton weight on its shoulders.

 

They look heavy - as you allude to, they are not having fun anymore.  I remember that COVID season, it was such a young, optimistic & loose team.  Now, they look like me - like they're carrying wide right & the MCM & the drought & 13 seconds around like a ball & chain.

 

Teams like the Jags & Bengals don't look like that. They look more cocky, more confident, and are playing more loose. 

 

And we're soft.  We shrink under the lights a bit now, and take time to recover when we get punched in the mouth, as we did in the 1st half last night.

 

I like McD, and think he has done a great job turning this team into a contender.  But he seems to have hit a ceiling, and I don't see anything I just talked about changing w/ him at the helm. We need someone to come in and fundamentally change the attitude and culture of the team.  

[Logic]

20 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I might be projecting some of my own feelings as a longtime fan onto this:  but I see a team that looks like it has a 2-ton weight on its shoulders.

 

They look heavy - as you allude to, they are not having fun anymore.  I remember that COVID season, it was such a young, optimistic & loose team.  Now, they look like me - like they're carrying wide right & the MCM & the drought & 13 seconds around like a ball & chain.

 

Teams like the Jags & Bengals don't look like that. They look more cocky, more confident, and are playing more loose. 

 

And we're soft.  We shrink under the lights a bit now, and take time to recover when we get punched in the mouth, as we did in the 1st half last night.

 

I like McD, and think he has done a great job turning this team into a contender.  But he seems to have hit a ceiling, and I don't see anything I just talked about changing w/ him at the helm. We need someone to come in and fundamentally change the attitude and culture of the team.  

Yeah, it's interesting. This hadn't really occurred to me until just now, but...the personality and demeanor of the head coach seem to be fundamentally at odds with those of its best players.

What I mean is that a team should take on the personality of its leader(s). In our case, our team lives and dies by Josh Allen and, to a lesser extent, Stefon Diggs. Those are fun-loving, silly, swaggy, confident guys. Sean McDermott, on the other hand? He's buttoned up, conservative, lots of cliches and coach speak, lots of "let's play smart, complementary football", "let's establish the running game", "lets get into a rhythm", etc, etc...His general personality and coaching style do not scream "fun and confidence and letting it all hang out there and leaving it all on the field".

If a team takes on the personality of its leader, I fear that our team -- instead of taking on the personality of its ON-field leaders -- has taken on the personality of its OFF-field leader, Sean McDermott. And that personality, as I just mentioned, is buttoned up, conservative, etc etc. 

Look at the Bengals. They follow Joe Cool's lead, and it shows. Look at the Chiefs. They follow Mahomes' fearlessness, and it shows. But if I look at the Bills? I see a team who is more McDermott than Allen, and that doesn't seem like a good thing any more. I used to associate Sean McDermott with high character, discipline, and toughness. Now I associate him with conservativeness, stubbornness, and wilting in big moments.

I don't know what coaching candidate would come in and re-instill a sense of fun, fearlessness, aggressiveness, and swagger in this team, but it does seem to be what's needed. That's what's so difficult: by standard measurements and analytics and point differential and all that, the Bills are a good football team! Buy going by the intangibles, the gut feel, the X factor, the extra SOMETHING that's needed to win a championship...this team just doesn't seem to have it.

In truth, it was probably all over for this version of the Bills the moment 13 seconds happened, and we're all -- fans, coaches, players, everyone -- just not willing to admit it. Until we do, and until we flip the page to a fresh, new chapter, I fear we're just in a slow, prolonged decline.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Logic

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

I might be projecting some of my own feelings as a longtime fan onto this:  but I see a team that looks like it has a 2-ton weight on its shoulders.

 

They look heavy - as you allude to, they are not having fun anymore.  I remember that COVID season, it was such a young, optimistic & loose team.  Now, they look like me - like they're carrying wide right & the MCM & the drought & 13 seconds around like a ball & chain.

 

Teams like the Jags & Bengals don't look like that. They look more cocky, more confident, and are playing more loose. 

 

And we're soft.  We shrink under the lights a bit now, and take time to recover when we get punched in the mouth, as we did in the 1st half last night.

 

I like McD, and think he has done a great job turning this team into a contender.  But he seems to have hit a ceiling, and I don't see anything I just talked about changing w/ him at the helm. We need someone to come in and fundamentally change the attitude and culture of the team.  

I want about half the Bengals swagger. They signed Joe Mixon to a contract extension after he pulled a gun on a lady in a road rage incident. They didn’t even cut Pac-man Jones after he stalked a women around a hotel. Look how much it took for Mike Brown to cut Chris Henry: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Henry_(wide_receiver). Remember Vontez Burfict? 

[Success]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yeah, it's interesting. This hadn't really occurred to me until just now, but...the personality and demeanor of the head coach seem to be fundamentally at odds with those of its best players.

What I mean is that a team should take on the personality of its leader(s). In our case, our team lives and dies by Josh Allen and, to a lesser extent, Stefon Diggs. Those are fun-loving, silly, swaggy, confident guys. Sean McDermott, on the other hand? He's buttoned up, conservative, lots of cliches and coach speak, lots of "let's play smart, complementary football", "let's establish the running game", "lets get into a rhythm", etc, etc...His general personality and coaching style do not scream "fun and confidence and letting it all hang out there and leaving it all on the field".

If a team takes on the personality of its leader, I fear that our team -- instead of taking on the personality of its ON-field leaders -- has taken on the team of its off-field leader, Sean McDermott. And that personality, as I just mentioned, is buttoned up, conservative, etc etc. 

Look at the Bengals. They follow Joe Cool's lead, and it shows. Look at the Chiefs. They follow Mahomes' fearlessness, and it shows. But if I look at the Bills? I see a team who is more McDermott than Allen, and that doesn't seem like a good thing any more. I used to associate Sean McDermott with high character, discipline, and toughness. Now I associate him with conservativeness, stubbornness, and wilting in big moments.

I don't know what coaching candidate would come in and re-instill a sense of fun, fearlessness, aggressiveness, and swagger in this team, but it does seem to be what's needed. That's what's so difficult: by standard measurements and analytics and point differential and all that, the Bills are a good football team! Buy going by the intangibles, the gut feel, the X factor, the extra SOMETHING that's needed to win a championship...this team just doesn't seem to have it.

In truth, it was probably all over for this version of the Bills the moment 13 seconds happened, and we're all -- fans, coaches, players, everyone -- just not willing to admit it. Until we do, and until we flip the page to a fresh, new chapter, I fear we're just in a slow, prolonged decline.

 

Just a quick reaction to the personality/demeanor thing - I heard Allen say in his presser the McD "we have to play more complementary football" line, and my heart kind of sank.  The team parroting and taking on the outlook of this HC is not a good thing.

 

I also thought of a memory from the '90s.  Bledsoe's Pats were down a score against the Bills with not much time left, and I think it was a crucial 4th down play they had to make, or something like that. There was a lot of confusion on their side, and from what I remember, Bledsoe almost let the clock run down but took a TO just in time. As he was running over to the sideline, Pete Carroll was looking at him and giving a kind of wry smile.  I also think of Rollie Massimino during Villanova's title run way back when calling a TO in a key moment and saying something like "who could go for a hot fudge sundae right now?"

 

And then our own Marv Levy w/ "Where else would you rather be?"  Most of these players are in their 20's and are pretty impressionable. It really helps if the coach doesn't make everything seem like it's ultra-serious and tries to lighten the tension once in awhile.

 

[Virgil]

The only thing I learned from this game is that Tee Higgins never skips arms day

[Bruffalo]

14 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Just a quick reaction to the personality/demeanor thing - I heard Allen say in his presser the McD "we have to play more complementary football" line, and my heart kind of sank.  The team parroting and taking on the outlook of this HC is not a good thing.

 

I also thought of a memory from the '90s.  Bledsoe's Pats were down a score against the Bills with not much time left, and I think it was a crucial 4th down play they had to make, or something like that. There was a lot of confusion on their side, and from what I remember, Bledsoe almost let the clock run down but took a TO just in time. As he was running over to the sideline, Pete Carroll was looking at him and giving a kind of wry smile.  I also think of Rollie Massimino during Villanova's title run way back when calling a TO in a key moment and saying something like "who could go for a hot fudge sundae right now?"

 

And then our own Marv Levy w/ "Where else would you rather be?"  Most of these players are in their 20's and are pretty impressionable. It really helps if the coach doesn't make everything seem like it's ultra-serious and tries to lighten the tension once in awhile.

 

From the outside looking in, it looks like McDermott would be miserable to be around for any extended period of time, and he's always citing "execution" as the point of the Bills woes for the last two seasons.  Part of it is true, but the coaching staff, particularly on offense, are doing a miserable job of putting their players in positions to succeed. 

[Logic]

17 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Just a quick reaction to the personality/demeanor thing - I heard Allen say in his presser the McD "we have to play more complementary football" line, and my heart kind of sank.  The team parroting and taking on the outlook of this HC is not a good thing.

 

I also thought of a memory from the '90s.  Bledsoe's Pats were down a score against the Bills with not much time left, and I think it was a crucial 4th down play they had to make, or something like that. There was a lot of confusion on their side, and from what I remember, Bledsoe almost let the clock run down but took a TO just in time. As he was running over to the sideline, Pete Carroll was looking at him and giving a kind of wry smile.  I also think of Rollie Massimino during Villanova's title run way back when calling a TO in a key moment and saying something like "who could go for a hot fudge sundae right now?"

 

And then our own Marv Levy w/ "Where else would you rather be?"  Most of these players are in their 20's and are pretty impressionable. It really helps if the coach doesn't make everything seem like it's ultra-serious and tries to lighten the tension once in awhile.

 

I used to feel like McDermott DID allow/promote a fun atmosphere amongst the Bills.

Guys like Isaiah McKenzie, Jordan Phillips, Jordan Poyer, Tre'Davious White, and then obviously Diggs and Allen...It seemed like I was always seeing laughter and guys hanging out and having fun and dancing and goofing off.

There's certainly still some of that around. We see the dancing and the silliness from time to time. But SOMETHING has changed. It's tangible. You can feel it. Maybe, as you say, it's the weight of the history of the Bills, of their own playoff losses, the crushing weight of success and expectations. But if THAT'S the case, then it's all the more reason a leadership change may be in order. It is, after all, the head coach's job to help his players handle that weight, to handle the pressure, and to overcome it and persevere. After all, the Chiefs had a long history of playoff futility of their own, and it didn't stop them. The Bengals have never won a title, but THEIR players don't seem to be crushed under a heavy weight.

No easy answers. But...the X Factor certainly seems to be missing. That certain... Je ne sais quoi. It's not there. The Bills are like a Ferrari being driven by a scared octogenarian right now. You see it rolling along at 20mph on a highway and you just want to scream "GUN IT!", but instead, the hazard lights are blinking and the driver is clutching the wheel, and other cars are zooming past and leaving it in the dust. 

Depressing.

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Sestak4ever said:

We cannot constantly lose the turnover battles and expect to win games.

D gotta get a turnover to win that battle